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TinManNL #41 Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:03 PM

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And so the stat farming begins...

With stuff like this you are condemning people for stat reasons alone.
Was bad enough with the standard tools, but oh well, you can't stop progress I guess.


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Deamon93 #42 Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:18 PM

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Hopefully we can avoid XVM, we have enough newbie swarms as it is now.


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peek101 #43 Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

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I agree with AnuSuaraj that destroying ground targets should not be a major factor in a player's overall efficiency rating, particularly if they are flying LF/CBF/HF. If you sling a bomb under a fighter and go after ground targets you are doing a disservice to your team as you are removing yourself from the more important mission of destroying enemy planes. It might be useful perhaps to have a second rating for ground attack efficiency though, for people who are interested in these stats and in case there are changes to the game in future that makes ground attack more useful.

Edited by peek101, 12 August 2013 - 01:48 PM.


Mungo73 #44 Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:28 PM

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View PostTinManNL, on 12 August 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

And so the stat farming begins...

With stuff like this you are condemning people for stat reasons alone.
Was bad enough with the standard tools, but oh well, you can't stop progress I guess.

I don't care if people play good or bad, this is about fun. My fun is to play as good as possible and become better, for which a performance rating helps.

What I do condemn is that people do not read or lie. I.e. claim they have 3 kills per battle  when they 0,5 or apply for clan membership without having even remotely the required prerequisites.

AnuSuaraj #45 Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:01 PM

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I hate stats...and I think only the said player should have access to his stats and that information shouldn't be public for everyone to see...and judge...with their judgy little prowling eyes.

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zimmah87 #46 Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:58 PM

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View PostGreyshark, on 12 August 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Quote

I kill about 2-3 planes every game
Heh yes, everyone here is so good to kill 2-3 planes every game, but when we check stats the number of kills per battle misteriously goes down to 1.07
well, my first 600 battles or so i flew with joystick, and since joystick is very hard to aim with, i made only a few kills, and often no kills at all. However, since the last couple of days i fly with mouse and get 2 or 3 kills most of my games. However, since my first 600 battles were terrible, it will take at least 600 more battles for my stats to start showing my current level of skill.
On top of that i'm flying many different planes because i try to fully explore the tech tree as much as possible during beta to see which planes are fun and which are not, and which suit my playstyle the best.
If i would only fly the planes i score best with, even if it's lower tier, than obviously my stats would improve.

Edited by zimmah87, 12 August 2013 - 07:01 PM.

I was looking for spitfire avatars and i found this, couldn't resist using it. :trollface:


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MXDoener #47 Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:43 PM

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Thanks for making the statistics for both games :3

WG...fixing stuff that isn´t broken since 2011! :trollface:


Jimac #48 Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:23 PM

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The thing is there is already a stat that shows your efficiency, that measures all aspects of your game even the hard to measure things like decision making. Deciding to attack ground targets instead of air targets in a fighter means you will lose more often and this is measured by your win/ratio.
Deciding to fly in a flight with good players is a winning strategy and that is also reflected in your win ratio. On the other hand forming flights with good players then entering battles at the same time as other "good" flights is a bad strategy, it may be good fun but your going to lose more often and that makes it a bad strategy.
No other stat is as important as win ratio and any formula you can devise for efficiency will have to be measured against w/r to see how accurate it is.

AnuSuaraj #49 Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:42 AM

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View PostJimac, on 12 August 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

The thing is there is already a stat that shows your efficiency, that measures all aspects of your game even the hard to measure things like decision making. Deciding to attack ground targets instead of air targets in a fighter means you will lose more often and this is measured by your win/ratio.
Deciding to fly in a flight with good players is a winning strategy and that is also reflected in your win ratio. On the other hand forming flights with good players then entering battles at the same time as other "good" flights is a bad strategy, it may be good fun but your going to lose more often and that makes it a bad strategy.
No other stat is as important as win ratio and any formula you can devise for efficiency will have to be measured against w/r to see how accurate it is.

WR was a good indicator before they implemented flights. Now there is no way of knowing if the player is good or if he's just teaming up with good players... Once they implement Companies (Squadrons) and Clan Wars things will get even more messy.

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sharpneli #50 Posted 13 August 2013 - 09:55 AM

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View PostAnuSuaraj, on 13 August 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

View PostJimac, on 12 August 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

The thing is there is already a stat that shows your efficiency, that measures all aspects of your game even the hard to measure things like decision making. Deciding to attack ground targets instead of air targets in a fighter means you will lose more often and this is measured by your win/ratio.
Deciding to fly in a flight with good players is a winning strategy and that is also reflected in your win ratio. On the other hand forming flights with good players then entering battles at the same time as other "good" flights is a bad strategy, it may be good fun but your going to lose more often and that makes it a bad strategy.
No other stat is as important as win ratio and any formula you can devise for efficiency will have to be measured against w/r to see how accurate it is.

WR was a good indicator before they implemented flights. Now there is no way of knowing if the player is good or if he's just teaming up with good players... Once they implement Companies (Squadrons) and Clan Wars things will get even more messy.

On the other hand you cannot look only at the derived stats either. Because really good players do easily over 90% when on platoon but on the process we eat kills from eachother, thus lowering that stat. Therefore it's going to be like in WoT. Always look at WN and WR together. Good soloer = awesome WN, not so good WR. Good platooner = good WN, good WR. good TC player = average WN, good/awesome WR.

Personally in WoWP I look mostly at kills/assists per battle together with WR. Ground target kills seem to be totally useless.

Deamon93 #51 Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:03 AM

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View Postsharpneli, on 13 August 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

View PostAnuSuaraj, on 13 August 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

View PostJimac, on 12 August 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

The thing is there is already a stat that shows your efficiency, that measures all aspects of your game even the hard to measure things like decision making. Deciding to attack ground targets instead of air targets in a fighter means you will lose more often and this is measured by your win/ratio.
Deciding to fly in a flight with good players is a winning strategy and that is also reflected in your win ratio. On the other hand forming flights with good players then entering battles at the same time as other "good" flights is a bad strategy, it may be good fun but your going to lose more often and that makes it a bad strategy.
No other stat is as important as win ratio and any formula you can devise for efficiency will have to be measured against w/r to see how accurate it is.

WR was a good indicator before they implemented flights. Now there is no way of knowing if the player is good or if he's just teaming up with good players... Once they implement Companies (Squadrons) and Clan Wars things will get even more messy.

On the other hand you cannot look only at the derived stats either. Because really good players do easily over 90% when on platoon but on the process we eat kills from eachother, thus lowering that stat. Therefore it's going to be like in WoT. Always look at WN and WR together. Good soloer = awesome WN, not so good WR. Good platooner = good WN, good WR. good TC player = average WN, good/awesome WR.

Personally in WoWP I look mostly at kills/assists per battle together with WR. Ground target kills seem to be totally useless.

Well it works if that player doesn't use GAAs. Personally i really like the GAA line(and i'm quite good at it) so my kill ratio is low(1.something, i don't remember) althou when i'm using fighters or heavies(real ones) i'm able to have 1/2 kills and/or 1/2 assists per game(average).

In the end the stats don't tell anything, i have 55% WR overall but with some fighters i have more than 70% WR mostly alone(70 % in 109F and 77% in La5, both with more than 20 games played)


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TinManNL #52 Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:31 PM

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LOL, see, I have a better WR than Deamon, but I can easily say he's the better pilot, so that shows how useless stats are.

My firm opinion on this is that this stuff should be banned if it wasn't clear. It's borderline cheating and is often used wrong, instead of being used to track your own progress it's used as an e-peen tool.


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Greyshark #53 Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:42 PM

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View PostTinManNL, on 13 August 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

LOL, see, I have a better WR than Deamon, but I can easily say he's the better pilot, so that shows how useless stats are.

My firm opinion on this is that this stuff should be banned if it wasn't clear. It's borderline cheating and is often used wrong, instead of being used to track your own progress it's used as an e-peen tool.

Stats are not useless, but you can't judge how good or bad is a player just because of his stats. Single number like WR or kills per battle doesn't mean anything. For me good player is the one who can think, who is capable to use his brain in first place. Good player would often sacrifice his possible kill to help a teammate or to get in a better strategic position. Good player knows how to play in team, where to go first, how to use his plane against others. So stats can tell me something, but only if I can see them all, not just WR nor kpb. We must see the player in action to tell if he's good or just need to play more.

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" The companion AI autoaim is a mess, 80% of the time you are on a bomber, you’ll miss the target"


TinManNL #54 Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:18 PM

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We are of a same mind Greshark, left out that part, but stats are useless to jude someone.

The whole problem with stats is that statistics use large samples to make predictions about probablility. The problem lies in people treating stats as cold, hard facts.
Say for example, somebody with a 60% winrate should statistacally win 6 out of 10 battles. Now that will leave 4 battles he will lose. (statistically)
So it's more probable he'll win a match you see him in, but there's nothing to say that this battle turns out to be one of the 4 he loses. So this is where people go wrong, they see that player for 1 match, a too small of a sample size to see if the 60% is acurate. So is I'll base my judgement on that 60% I see on the guy, I'd say ok, we should win this. So now I would treat it as fact we should win, and be surprised if we won't. And this is the wrong mindset.
Most of us aren't bookmakers for a reason, we don't have the info and training to make predictions based on stats.

I agree I should have to see someone in battle to see what kind of descisions he makes, that tells a lot more about how he achieves his winrate. I rather have a poorly statted dude who has a good head on his shoulders and tries to think in the benefit of the team, that someone with good stats who is only out for number one.


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13. The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim.

 

TwiceDead #55 Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:45 PM

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It's all about the kills.

naksahdus #56 Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:28 PM

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Hopefully (in my wishfull thinking...) WoWp statpage would show some kind of base-xp per round. Corrected from (+50%-) effect of prem accos.
That would be most usefull, along with winrate. Kill oriented thinking in extreme, causes angriness about kill steals. Kill steals don't, or should not exist. Efficient killer (or finisher) is helping team, in this game and WoT. Preventing damage to own team, and freeing players to hunt new targets.

Edited by naksahdus, 13 August 2013 - 08:30 PM.


AngryBanana #57 Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:48 PM

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View Postsharpneli, on 13 August 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:


Personally in WoWP I look mostly at kills/assists per battle together with WR. Ground target kills seem to be totally useless.
since there is no efficiency rating here yet , could you look at my stats and tell me how I am doing please:)
I really miss the ability to check my stats/my performance in WoWP compared to WoT, together with not having my klanu to platoon with this is the thing that I dislike most about wowp :hiding:

Jimac #58 Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:58 PM

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What I'm trying to say about Win Ratio is that by definition it's a measure of how effective you are in the game. I think flying in flights is a valid tactic for winning games and should be reflected in the W/R, because lets face it winning is what we're trying to do (and if your not that also contributes to your W/R).

I realise though that what people seem to want is a efficiency score that  shows how good a pilot is as an individual, (in a team game?) and what greyshark describes as a good pilot, making all those good decisions, will result in more wins anyway so the w/r would show it.

I remember a guy in WOT who had a high efficiency rate, much higher than mine but his W/R was the same as mine. After looking closer at his stats I saw he had low spotting and capping numbers,but he had high numbers for decapping. he was getting kills and dealing out damage at the end of the battles when his team had basically already lost. To my mind that was not efficient use of his skills and his win ratio was a better measure of his "real efficiency".

It's always going to be a problem trying to measure individual skill in a game where some people fly with their friends a lot of the time or even against their friends a lot of the time, (though with bigger numbers the latter won't matter too much), even the plane they fly or the type of plane they fly will warp the stats.

All the pilots with really good stats fly air to air combat, does that mean we should boost the efficiency rate for pilots who go mainly for ground targets to recognise that, even though they lose more often. What exactly do we mean by efficiency then.

Interesting topic though and I've no idea what the answer is lol.

MXDoener #59 Posted 13 August 2013 - 09:16 PM

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View PostTwiceDead, on 13 August 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

It's all about the kills.

So whats with people playing a lot of Ground Attackers?! They doesnt matter or what? :P

WG...fixing stuff that isn´t broken since 2011! :trollface:


nooberish #60 Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:51 AM

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There should be some number of games played until statistics are useful (make sense).
Also statistics should be viewed per plane, not whole acc.

p.s.
If I play only on two planes: one uber, second as a water diver (or team killer)... what would my stats show?
I guess I need to open new acc and try.




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