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State of the game by the Suaraj

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AnuSuaraj #1 Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:27 AM

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State of our favorite game is truly poor.
As some of you might know I have been testing this game for well over a year now and although I am a huge fan of the game I cannot honestly say that I like the overall direction of development.
1. Fixing what ain't broke...
Wargaming development teams have this unhealthy desire to "fix" things that work rather well in the game whilst simultaniously ignoring large and gaping issues. For example, the radar system, which worked perfectly for most of closed Beta until some unknown genius decided it needs to "improved". First we got the large radar with tiny indicators (0.4.1) and with 0.5.1 we just got the tiny radar with huge indicators. Also, the white arrow that is suppose to indicate our planes position looks a bit deformed...increase res maybe?
Also, with this latest patch we got the "sound fix" which makes guns sound feeble and impotent...almost like I'm firing BB gun pellets instead of cannon shells.
This trend of ruining things that work perfectly fine within the game both confuses and scares me. Every patch all the things added or improved get overshadowed by things intentionally ruined for no reason whatsoever. This trend always ruins patch day for me. ALWAYS...
2. The balancing of aircraft...
Or should I say unbalancing of aircraft.
Something WoWP devs haven't figured out yet is the fact THAT YOU CAN'T BALANCE THIS GAME LIKE WOT. The whole balance according to global WR DOESN'T F***ING WORK!
Why? Because planes that are good for energy fighting demanded a certain skill level and patience to be effective, a skill level most players don't have which is why they turnfight these planes and lose a bucketload of battles. So then the agile fighters get nerfed and energy fighters become even more powerful, and again, good players then use those energy fighters to own everything but for every one of the good players there iz a million dweebs turnfighting the Me.262 lowering the global WR even more, and again the Me.262 gets buffed even more to the point it can do 950 kph in level flight and is the most OP plane in the freakin' game.
You cannot balance a 3D game the same way you balance a 2D game. The proof of this is a great quantity of already OP energy fighters that got buffed in the last patch (Bf.109B, Me.262, F2G).
3. Trying to compress the skill gap...
Doesn't work because the gap is already compressed as much as it could ever be...Proof of claim?
How about the recent attempt to compress the gap by nerfing gun accuracy AKA increasing weapon spread to an ridiculous amount. I'm guessing WG thought it would level the playing field if we all did lower damage by missing a lot. Problem? The spread increased in level flight increases exponencially when firing upward which means that better players who always maintain an altitude advantage are now even less likely to get killed or even seriously damaged by dweebs firing at them in a steep climb. Result? Skill gap is NOT compressed and also the whole playerbase is annoyed by these shotgun planes that can't hit a broadside of a barn. Also, the extra spread has actually made nose mounted guns better than before as in the olden days the tight grouping of the shots made aiming more difficult.
And btw Wargaming, the guns that spray the most are the wing mounted light MGs which are mostly present on lower tier AKA the tiers that new players will first fly...for a while at least, till they are so pis*ed off that they uninstall.
Oh, and one more thing. The guy that came up with the recent "collison avoidance system" that makes your plane 10x more agile when in proximity to other planes is the biggest dweeb in the history of mankind. Seriously, I cannot fathom how a living breathing thinking human being that develops games for a living thought to himself: "Hey, I know how to make planes not crash as much! Let's make a system that makes a plane fly erratic and uber fast when close to other planes, that should make avoiding collisions super easy!!"
Truly, some people seem to have the intelligence and reasoning skills similar to that of an eucaliptus tree.
4. Maps
We need a lot more of them before release. Also please remove Asian border, like FOREVAHH.
See attached pic below for clarification...
5. Optimization
Still remains the biggest issue of the game, along with stability ofc. Packet loss, fps drops and constant game crashes are an issue an MMO simply cannot afford to have. If the date for release is truly late September than me thinks WG has a lot of work to do.
Keep in mind though, that giving players the ability to degrade graphics to a level of an old Commodore 64 is not optimization, it is merely degradation and people aren't buying it.
State of the game is poor indeed. And the recent annoucements didn't make things any better.
Wargaming has rushed 0.4 update, has rushed OBT and is now rushing to release. And all this rushing is bound to backfire very soon.
But all this is just my humble opinion, my somewhat unwelcome perspective, a little something I like to call THE GODD*MN TRUTH!
Mighty Suaraj over and out...

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Edited by AnuSuaraj, 21 August 2013 - 09:32 AM.

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Fajtl #2 Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:36 AM

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Anu, you  usually amuse me with your strong ego-driven stuff, but to this thread I can only say: Where do I sign?

Most of the CBT I had to be away for poor optimalisation or because of such "fixing" that just frustrated the stuff out of me and turned me off for months before trying again for another "meh" moment. Game is relatively OK now, but the sound , radar and economy are pure puzzlement for me.

XIPHORE #3 Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:42 AM

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I think exactly the same as your anusuaraj.   +1000


Deamon93 #4 Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:47 AM

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View PostAnuSuaraj, on 21 August 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

State of our favorite game is truly poor.
As some of you might know I have been testing this game for well over a year now and although I am a huge fan of the game I cannot honestly say that I like the overall direction of development.
1. Fixing what ain't broke...
Wargaming development teams have this unhealthy desire to "fix" things that work rather well in the game whilst simultaniously ignoring large and gaping issues. For example, the radar system, which worked perfectly for most of closed Beta until some unknown genius decided it needs to "improved". First we got the large radar with tiny indicators (0.4.1) and with 0.5.1 we just got the tiny radar with huge indicators. Also, the white arrow that is suppose to indicate our planes position looks a bit deformed...increase res maybe?
Also, with this latest patch we got the "sound fix" which makes guns sound feeble and impotent...almost like I'm firing BB gun pellets instead of cannon shells.
This trend of ruining things that work perfectly fine within the game both confuses and scares me. Every patch all the things added or improved get overshadowed by things intentionally ruined for no reason whatsoever. This trend always ruins patch day for me. ALWAYS...
2. The balancing of aircraft...
Or should I say unbalancing of aircraft.
Something WoWP devs haven't figured out yet is the fact THAT YOU CAN'T BALANCE THIS GAME LIKE WOT. The whole balance according to global WR DOESN'T F***ING WORK!
Why? Because planes that are good for energy fighting demanded a certain skill level and patience to be effective, a skill level most players don't have which is why they turnfight these planes and lose a bucketload of battles. So then the agile fighters get nerfed and energy fighters become even more powerful, and again, good players then use those energy fighters to own everything but for every one of the good players there iz a million dweebs turnfighting the Me.262 lowering the global WR even more, and again the Me.262 gets buffed even more to the point it can do 950 kph in level flight and is the most OP plane in the freakin' game.
You cannot balance a 3D game the same way you balance a 2D game. The proof of this is a great quantity of already OP energy fighters that got buffed in the last patch (Bf.109B, Me.262, F2G).
3. Trying to compress the skill gap...
Doesn't work because the gap is already compressed as much as it could ever be...Proof of claim?
How about the recent attempt to compress the gap by nerfing gun accuracy AKA increasing weapon spread to an ridiculous amount. I'm guessing WG thought it would level the playing field if we all did lower damage by missing a lot. Problem? The spread increased in level flight increases exponencially when firing upward which means that better players who always maintain an altitude advantage are now even less likely to get killed or even seriously damaged by dweebs firing at them in a steep climb. Result? Skill gap is NOT compressed and also the whole playerbase is annoyed by these shotgun planes that can't hit a broadside of a barn. Also, the extra spread has actually made nose mounted guns better than before as in the olden days the tight grouping of the shots made aiming more difficult.
And btw Wargaming, the guns that spray the most are the wing mounted light MGs which are mostly present on lower tier AKA the tiers that new players will first fly...for a while at least, till they are so pis*ed off that they uninstall.
Oh, and one more thing. The guy that came up with the recent "collison avoidance system" that makes your plane 10x more agile when in proximity to other planes is the biggest dweeb in the history of mankind. Seriously, I cannot fathom how a living breathing thinking human being that develops games for a living thought to himself: "Hey, I know how to make planes not crash as much! Let's make a system that makes a plane fly erratic and uber fast when close to other planes, that should make avoiding collisions super easy!!"
Truly, some people seem to have the intelligence and reasoning skills similar to that of an eucaliptus tree.
4. Maps
We need a lot more of them before release. Also please remove Asian border, like FOREVAHH.
See attached pic below for clarification...
5. Optimization
Still remains the biggest issue of the game, along with stability ofc. Packet loss, fps drops and constant game crashes are an issue an MMO simply cannot afford to have. If the date for release is truly late September than me thinks WG has a lot of work to do.
Keep in mind though, that giving players the ability to degrade graphics to a level of an old Commodore 64 is not optimization, it is merely degradation and people aren't buying it.
State of the game is poor indeed. And the recent annoucements didn't make things any better.
Wargaming has rushed 0.4 update, has rushed OBT and is now rushing to release. And all this rushing is bound to backfire very soon.
But all this is just my humble opinion, my somewhat unwelcome perspective, a little something I like to call THE GODD*MN TRUTH!
Mighty Suaraj over and out...

And BTW could anyone tell me what this guy drank?

“In the two months since the launch of Open Beta, we’ve made a huge amount of progress,” said Oleg Gotynyan, development director of World of Warplanes. “We are extremely thankful for the feedback and data our testers provided to us through both Closed and Open Beta. They contributed a great deal to the process of helping scale the game, and we expect it to offer a deep and polished experience to both MMO fans and flight combat enthusiasts alike.”

I would love to know which game this guy was looking at. Because:
1)Since 0.4 almost all CBT players got pissed due to the controls changes(both joystick and mouse players). Since that crappy patch both controls are not as they were
2)Since 0.4 it seems that nobody is listening because we said all over again the same things(performance issues, controls issues and so on)
3)Polished game? DAFUQ? Only yesterday the server kept on crashing and you believe that something like that is fine at this stage? I can understand in early Alpha when something wrong is not strange. At late OBT server crashes is a HUGE and DUM mistake.

I hope that you, WG, will be able to fix all this. Remember: don't touch again what is fine and, please, DON'T DARE TO DO ANYTHING AGAINST KAMIKAZE. We saw what you've done which is even worse


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Fajtl #5 Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:54 AM

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Anyone would expect the game to give polished and deep experience. Will it deliver? Thats another question  :trollface:

To  me, the announcement was like:

Ivan: We don't have any budget for WoWp test for Q4! We overran CBT and forgot to top up!
Sergey: Sh.t! Lets release it then and see what happens. We can always BS the press  with the user base numbers!

sharpneli #6 Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:57 AM

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View PostAnuSuaraj, on 21 August 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

2. The balancing of aircraft...
Or should I say unbalancing of aircraft.
Something WoWP devs haven't figured out yet is the fact THAT YOU CAN'T BALANCE THIS GAME LIKE WOT. The whole balance according to global WR DOESN'T F***ING WORK!
Why? Because planes that are good for energy fighting demanded a certain skill level and patience to be effective, a skill level most players don't have which is why they turnfight these planes and lose a bucketload of battles. So then the agile fighters get nerfed and energy fighters become even more powerful, and again, good players then use those energy fighters to own everything but for every one of the good players there iz a million dweebs turnfighting the Me.262 lowering the global WR even more, and again the Me.262 gets buffed even more to the point it can do 950 kph in level flight and is the most OP plane in the freakin' game.
You cannot balance a 3D game the same way you balance a 2D game. The proof of this is a great quantity of already OP energy fighters that got buffed in the last patch (Bf.109B, Me.262, F2G).

Identical problem exists in WoT side. Tanks with high skill cap overperform in the hands of good players. Most autoloaders with paper armor are a great example of this. In the right hands they are godlike machines of destruction, in average/poor hands they just empty one clip and die. Also you should compare the tanks used in tournaments. The balancing by random battles means that most of the tanks are simply useless when organized play is considered.

Also tanks which are popular amongst the horde of Russian players get only average stats, the KV-1S is perfect example, it's the best T6 by far but the masses lower it's average stats so it's not nerfed and thus remains the go to tank for all T6 tournaments.

But I do agree that the magnitude of the problem is larger in WoWP. Personally I'm going to handle it just like I handle it in WoT side. I'm just going to play the planes that have huge skill cap and enjoy myself. Though I do hope they'd put certain limits because eventually playing only energy fighters is bound to be boring.

BlackLebbel #7 Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:01 AM

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hmmm...fair enough what anu said...about radar (those huge arrows i don't know why..)...and the mg's spreading....it's like taking a shower to some enemy with that MGs mounted in airframe....

_Grim_ #8 Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:20 AM

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You get the "Approved by the Reaper " achievement Anu...you prize is 10 000 CBT gold which no longer exists...CONGRATS :trollface:  !!!

On a more serious note,I pretty much agree with everything you say,especially point 1 .Fixing things that didn't need to be fix like the interface.collision model,plane markers and controls has seriously downgraded the game.

The attempts at reducing the skill gap are only leading to frustration as there is nothing more annoying than being perfectly aimed at someone and missing because the dice rolls in the game say you cant hit it due to dispersion.Same with the nerfs to accuracy of GAA--I mean... WHY !? GAA planes should be the most stable platforms to mount guns on.

As for BnZ planes-one could (sort of) argue that BnZ planes are balanced by the fact that they get serious problems when they are not top tier as they can no longer out run anyone and also cant out maneuver  them (while a TnB plane can at least out turn high tiers).But if we use that logic,what happens at tiers 9 and 10...you are just left with planes which cant be balance.I have no idea how they'll deal with this issue(most likely will just ignore it  :facepalm: ).

Optimization in the game seems to be one of the worst I've ever seen.On my PC it doesn't matter what graphics settings I use-it runs the same on very high(with motion blur turned off as I cant stand it) and very low at round 45 fps with constant drops to 20 when I enter a dogfight.I mean..chow is this even possible  :sceptic: ...
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Grimpagan #9 Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:14 AM

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So, I guess I am sticking with WoT for now. And waiting for the Hangar Module for SC to be released.
Edit: 8 battles? Every time I post, I will appear as an opinionated jerk.

Edited by Grimpagan, 21 August 2013 - 11:15 AM.

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TNC_Frost #10 Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:30 PM

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The game seems less polished than in the previous patch. A lot more slowdowns, packet losses etc. How is that possible?

The erratic movement jumps in dogfights also annoy the hell out of me.

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ZbysiaxXx69 #11 Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:33 PM

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Well said Anu, well, said. I thought that OB start was rushed, but when they announced that they're going to launch WoWP in September... Well, somebody should loose a job, really, releasing it in September 2014 would be risky, releasing it now is just a shot to their own foot, as we say it in Poland. I mean, WT, that is 100 times better optimised, has more planes, better graphics and is more intuitive is still in OB. Don't get me wrong, I'm cheering for WoWP as I find more fun in this game, but it simply can't work at this stage, there's literally nothing ATM that WoWP does better than WT. And if they really want to release it in a month - fine, but please, let go of British planes, polish, what's already in game, OPTIMISE it, make those damn out of memory crashes, FPS drops and so on disappear, rollback some changes... We can live without British planes for another 2 or 3 months, just don't launch a game in such horrible technical condition.

sharpneli #12 Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:40 PM

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View PostZbysiaxXx69, on 21 August 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

, WT, that is 100 times better optimised, has more planes, better graphics and is more intuitive is still in OB.

WT was effectively released November 2012, why do I say it's released? They are taking money from it. So it works like a released game. On the other hand if you wish you can imagine that WoWP is still in Beta but just accepts payments, just like what WT does.

Nonetheless I still think the release of WoWP at September is bit premature as it will be compared to the competition, something WT didn't have when it had it's own 'release'. It goes both ways btw. WT ground forces will be compared to WoT. The first mover has huge advantage.

Greyshark #13 Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:48 PM

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As always I agree with Mighty Suaraj. This patch is a big mistake. with 9 fps (13-15 in 0.5.1) Asian Border is unplayable now, controls are messed up, ping I had 35-45 now it's 70-80, flight model is very strange, what's up with those rolls? I move joystick slightly to the left and the airplane suddently makes 180 degrees roll??

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Deamon93 #14 Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:54 PM

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View Postsharpneli, on 21 August 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

View PostZbysiaxXx69, on 21 August 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

, WT, that is 100 times better optimised, has more planes, better graphics and is more intuitive is still in OB.

WT was effectively released November 2012, why do I say it's released? They are taking money from it. So it works like a released game. On the other hand if you wish you can imagine that WoWP is still in Beta but just accepts payments, just like what WT does.

Nonetheless I still think the release of WoWP at September is bit premature as it will be compared to the competition, something WT didn't have when it had it's own 'release'. It goes both ways btw. WT ground forces will be compared to WoT. The first mover has huge advantage.

The first mover has huge advantage if it survives the release. At the moment with all the issues it's quite difficult but maybe someone will fix all the mess and starts listening to the tester who did the job over the years. If this person arrives the game can be polished and so on in a month(maybe), otherwise i don't believe it. I hope that the game will be fixed because i like it very much but it changed(to the worse)until the arrival of the 0.4 series...


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jeff_peters #15 Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:22 PM

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Well put puny.

Also:
Attached File   o9kuf.jpg   151.59K

 

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Owieczek #16 Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:28 PM

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Agree on all waht you said, Anu. Though I have several things to add:
1. Optimisation is actually worse for me than it was before. Previously I have had maybe 2 crashes during all flights I have flown, on this patch It was several times during 1.5h session. Plus, my framerate drops from 90 to 10-15 during dogfights, while it was somewhat ok before.
2. One more example of fixing what ain't broke: When I think about frame markers in 3.5 it makes my blood boil and I need a lot of willpower to stay calm - how it is possible that they changed something so good to what we have now, and even state that it is better? Better how, I do ask?
3. Hectic AC movements when nearby enemy is bug and will be fixed. I simply refuse to believe that someone came up with such idea - he would be to (how to state it politely...) constrained to find company building, let alone write.
4. Skill gap compression is necessary to hit mass market, they are just doing it wrong. Or maybe it is not, as most of players will join from WoT, so actually coming across good player will be unlikely. We will see. My opinion is that WoWP will never be as popular as WoT. Because they will not be able to compress skill gap in a way that complete idiot unskilled player would be able to perform.
Edit:
Despite all of this I really enjoy the game (even now), and I think all of these things are minor - 95% of success is already there, great pace, concept, interface, user friendliness. WG just needs to listen a bit and go for this last step to have it nailed.

Edited by Owieczek, 21 August 2013 - 01:32 PM.


peek101 #17 Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:29 PM

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Great post man. In my opinion the best thing they could do would be roll the flight model, controls and gun accuracy back to 0.3.5 although keep all the new chrome like hangers, crew experience, ammo belts and Yaks. Then spend all the development resources optimizing the game and viola! you'd have something pretty decent.

Also if you want to copy stuff from WT why on earth copy the things that make that game crap and not the good stuff? I can't believe anyone would think it was a good idea to copy the plane twitch and crappy joystick controls whilst ignoring things like large maps, varied mission types, player controlled gun positions, take-offs and landings, repairing planes and restock bombs etc.

_Grim_ #18 Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

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View Postpeek101, on 21 August 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Great post man. In my opinion the best thing they could do would be roll the flight model, controls and gun accuracy back to 0.3.5 although keep all the new chrome like hangers, crew experience, ammo belts and Yaks. Then spend all the development resources optimizing the game and viola! you'd have something pretty decent.

WG please, for the God's sake ,hire peek and put him in charge of WoWp and then the game will actually progress and be fun to play.Cause now,it seems that every patch adds a few new nice things and then breaks a gazillion more already working ones cause it tried to fix them ,even though they worked perfectly in the first place :facepalm: With how this is going I expect next patch to make the  big map as small as the mini map in order to "improve" :sceptic: .
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Kafein #19 Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:11 PM

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Where do I sign Anu ? Agree what you said !!!

FastTaker #20 Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

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Note: there is a mod for bigger radar display.
http://forum.worldof...-radar-for-051/

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