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Say no to Autoaim!

wg has ruined wowp

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Deamon93 #121 Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:00 AM

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View PostPythonUA, on 27 September 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Crew skills is a way to raise your virtual alter ego. This works fine in MMO games, it keeps clients online. Yesterday haven't noticed problems with rear gunners. Just haven't kept myself in their crosshair, cuz I have my own IL-2 two-seat and know how it can be painfull (even before 0.5.3).

Is a way to cancel what was left of non-arcade. Still the auto-aim is a double edge sword: also the one chasing the plane with the gunner has it


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Eviscerador #122 Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:02 AM

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View PostDeamon93, on 27 September 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

View PostPythonUA, on 27 September 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Post3agle3ye, on 27 September 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Also now the rear gunners they are not missing any more.Every shot will hit u...WG FIX THIS ASAP.
In 0.5.3 patch most crews were replaced by veterans, able to get 100% speciality + 100% main skill + 50% secondary skill. Rear gunners just got their "+accuracy" & "+fire range" skills

That's why i was against crew skills except camo, spotting range and firefighting. Still everybody whined about having more skills: here's the result
I don't see the problem. Rear gunners without that skills are almost useless. With them, they are just a deterrent, but good players will take you down anyway.

Deamon93 #123 Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:11 AM

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View PostEviscerador, on 27 September 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

View PostDeamon93, on 27 September 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

View PostPythonUA, on 27 September 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Post3agle3ye, on 27 September 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Also now the rear gunners they are not missing any more.Every shot will hit u...WG FIX THIS ASAP.
In 0.5.3 patch most crews were replaced by veterans, able to get 100% speciality + 100% main skill + 50% secondary skill. Rear gunners just got their "+accuracy" & "+fire range" skills

That's why i was against crew skills except camo, spotting range and firefighting. Still everybody whined about having more skills: here's the result
I don't see the problem. Rear gunners without that skills are almost useless. With them, they are just a deterrent, but good players will take you down anyway.

Never fought against a tail gunner, i simply stopped playing when i tried the tier I Brit.


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Renwor #124 Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:23 AM

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Autoaim is BAD!  - I know its oversimplification, but still, it's true.  It may help to get some hits , even kills but, on the other hand, it makes targeting YOU so much easier.
Before, when somebody opened fire from extereme distance (like 500m with MG) you got few hits and had time to react. So even quite bad/new player had chance to do some evasion.
Now targeted = dead, particulary from mid to long range.  So newbies would die like flies in first 30sec of battle, PARTICULARY at first tiers where MGs are dominant.
Flying like erratic madman and spraying any red circle, together with a hotkey for targeting the one in front of you ( by itself really nice, I asked for that one) it's really theme for a bot construction:
random pressing of direction keys, targeting key and fire key should be quite succesfull at tier I.

GAA's are dead, tail gunner cannot prevent that, nobody would play them at low tiers.


 


Didgnmatt #125 Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:01 AM

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Hey guys,

i haven´t fought many battles since the patch was out,
fly in low res (have to, due to fps, no change since the patch)

and saw no aiming aid, at least didn´t realize it.
Was down pretty fast, but need a bit to get used to the new steering as well, so no proof there yet.

Concerning the videos:
If i fly a heavy after another heavy and hit "as much" i´d see the hitpoints-counter on the enemy aircraft counting down more obviously.
And in the vid the red bar was next to fully intact,
so i´d rather not take that as a proof, yet.
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Deamon93 #126 Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:06 AM

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https://www.youtube....B75456oRVJUGoaw


This the other video i made. I used the P40 so it's not so evident. Anyway in some parts is easier to see


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Arkay93 #127 Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:55 AM

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View PostEviscerador, on 27 September 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

View PostDeamon93, on 27 September 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

View PostPythonUA, on 27 September 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

View Post3agle3ye, on 27 September 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Also now the rear gunners they are not missing any more.Every shot will hit u...WG FIX THIS ASAP.
In 0.5.3 patch most crews were replaced by veterans, able to get 100% speciality + 100% main skill + 50% secondary skill. Rear gunners just got their "+accuracy" & "+fire range" skills

That's why i was against crew skills except camo, spotting range and firefighting. Still everybody whined about having more skills: here's the result
I don't see the problem. Rear gunners without that skills are almost useless. With them, they are just a deterrent, but good players will take you down anyway.

+1 to evisceradon but they also wanted us to test the crew skills thats why they did that one hint to kill those planes with rear gunners is to kill them from above or below the plane where the gunner cant reach you is that so hard to think of? or even the sides its been called rear gunner but it has limited fire range and a small one  you just dont know how to adjust
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CandyVanMan #128 Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:15 PM

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So they turned it into a mobile game?
Now I can own people on my laptop with the touchpad! :D

Seriously though, f*** this incredibly stupid addition.

Renwor #129 Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:25 PM

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http://forum.worldof...ge__st__100#top

good pics from Ishamar on NA forum. The crossing bullet path are fun to watch. Left guns would hit anyway, so no adjustment, right would not, so why not help them a bit. Funny.


 


DingMan #130 Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:13 PM

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View PostEviscerador, on 27 September 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

In another hand, if this slight aim assist help to increase the player base, I can live with it.
Seriously, I was fed up with teams which couldn't hit the side of a barn while flying. Now they guys who were "just there" are achieving kills, and that is helpful for the team.
I will miss getting 1 ace every 5 games but I can live with that.
I haven't noticed any difference, and for example yesterday I made a diving head on vs a Bf109F with 3X20 mm cannons. I still got him with the mustangs MGs and he only got 50 hp off me. So is not that big.
And my surviving rate is the same as always.
I'm beginning to think this is a bit elitist and egoism on your side. Yes you are better, yes, your aiming skills are superior. But not eveyone has time, skill or experience to get the game and kill 6 planes each game. You need to aid people in their first games. This is not tanks, where the target is still and you can move your turret. A bit of help for them will be welcomed, and good people will still be good because of tactics, 3D awareness and superior aiming.
WHY do you NEED to aid people? This is not a cooperative game, this is a PvP game, it's about who is BEST. I'm sick of society holding the hand of incompetents and aiding the weak. This is why this whole planet went to the shithole, cause natural selection has no place in our "modern" society. We care to the incompetents, we nurture them, we hold their hand, and we hapily integrate them in our society. Instead of promoting our values, encouraging performance, encouraging ability, intelligence, competence, and self-improvement, we discourage them in our "modern" society. Instead of praising the elites that rise to the very top, and aspiring to be like them, to self-improve, our spitful "modern" society will maw those elites down, do whatever it's possible to strip them of their edge, so that the others, the plebs, the vast majority which composes a society, don't "feel bad" about themselves anymore, and can continue to live their mediocre lives in pure incompetence and ignorance, blisfully unaware of their inadequence and need of self-improvement. Why be reminded daily that you suck when someone kicks your ass to the ground in WoWp because they have better skill, quicker reflexes, better multi-tasking ability, higher awarenes, and are more intelligent and cunning, when we can just add a feature to the game that will make every noob unaware of how bad he actually sucks, and hey... no need to actually learn anything, practice, or get better at anything... just keep sucking and enjoy living on planet Earth, where every incompetent weakling is encouraged and helped to live their lives in total ignorance of their self-failure to fit the requirements of being a "superior" life form.
Now, I'm NOT by far an elite player. I'm old, my reflexes are not what they used to be, my "processing" speed is not what it used to be, even my situational awareness is not as great at it used to be. But I'm still way better than your average WoWp player, and I am better because I put an effort into it. I wasn't born better, or smarter, or faster, I just choose to be, and practice, and evolved, and gotten better. And the fact that WG comes along, and adds a "feature" to the game, that literally takes a piss on my performance edge, and all my effort of self-improvement, is an insult to me, especially since I think I poured over a thousand dollars into WG's pockets over the past few years.
I am NOT an extremist, I'm not the kind of person who thinks we should do like the spartans did and kill the weaklings. Not because I would be squeamish about it, but because I think the vast majority of the weaklings are in fact not weeklings by birth, but by choice. I don't think we live in a society of idiots and incompetents because that's how most of them were born, I think most people are like this because that's how society made them. And it made them so exactly through this kind of nurturing and missguided sense of protection. If you're afraid to tell an idiot he's an idiot, and instead you hold his hand, and shelter him from the truth, and you lie to him telling he's not an idiot, that he's smart, then you're not doing him a favor, you're just causing him to accept his condition, and not attempt to improve, you're just allowing him to be OK with the fact he's an idiot. And what does that get you? It gets you billions and billions of idiots that think it's ok to be like they are, it's normal.
That's what happens when you lower the bar, athletes won't need to jump that high, they won't need to train so hard, they loose even more performance, they start getting fatter, and soon enough they won't even be able to "jump" over the low bar, and then you'll lower the bar again, and the whole cycle repeats itself, and you lower the bar again, and again, and again, until every athlete is a 300 pounds fatass that chews on burgers and burps beer bubbles all day long, and they no longer have to jump over the bar, they just roll over it in their wheelchair. That's the point of having the bar set high in the first place, you don't set the bar high so that everyone can jump it, you set it high so that it's hard as hell to jump it, and to encourage people to give their 110% and strive to get better, to be the best, and after hard work, and training, and effort, when they finally manage to jump the high bar, they are proud of their accomplishment, as it is truly and accomplishment, and they become models for others, their existance says "yes, it IS possible, and everyone CAN do it, with effort and dedication". This is the whole model upon which humanity has evolved, being able to overcome hardship, to better yourself, to look up at others around you which are better than you, learn from them, and strive to be as good as they are one day.
And I'm going to leave you off with one of the most famos quotes of the past century, one quote that many of the young people today probably haven't even heared about, or if they had, didn't really quite understand what it was about (see kids, this is why learning history IS important, and how it DOES help you in life): "We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too." (I wonder what happened to that human spirit!? It really saddens me...)
So THAT'S why it's NOT ok to have aim assist. That's what's wrong with many many other things in our society, and what happened with this auto-aim is just another reminder of the terrible direction in which our species is heading towards.
Edit: Sorry this wasn't a text monolith to begin with, I edited the thing and all my line formatting was gone and for whatever reason further edits won't fix it, soo... sorry for that.

Edited by DingMan, 27 September 2013 - 02:11 PM.


Renwor #131 Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:32 PM

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View PostEviscerador, on 27 September 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

In another hand, if this slight aim assist help to increase the player base, I can live with it.
Seriously, I was fed up with teams which couldn't hit the side of a barn while flying. Now they guys who were "just there" are achieving kills, and that is helpful for the team.
I will miss getting 1 ace every 5 games but I can live with that.
I haven't noticed any difference, and for example yesterday I made a diving head on vs a Bf109F with 3X20 mm cannons. I still got him with the mustangs MGs and he only got 50 hp off me. So is not that big.
And my surviving rate is the same as always.
I'm beginning to think this is a bit elitist and egoism on your side. Yes you are better, yes, your aiming skills are superior. But not eveyone has time, skill or experience to get the game and kill 6 planes each game. You need to aid people in their first games. This is not tanks, where the target is still and you can move your turret. A bit of help for them will be welcomed, and good people will still be good because of tactics, 3D awareness and superior aiming.
Eviscerador you are playing higher tiers, if profile stats are to be trusted you tried just tier IV bristol yesterday and din't do too good with that one. Despite what Anu says I believe (no reall proof for that, still to be researched) the latest feature influences mainly low caliber MGs.  
What I can tell from my experience, not heresay, is that tier I battles felt yesterday quite different to what I am used from CBT (where I played mainly tier I-IV, being new) or OBT before patch.
No real dogfighting , just dakka, dakka dead, or dakka dakka enemy dead, dakka dakka me dead.  This is not WoWP (I hope - didn't really try higher tiers yesterday) . it is not helping new players to introduce them to the game, nor it is preparing them what to expect at higher tiers (again ..I hope).
   What I suggest (basicaly to anyone ) try few tier I games, then tell us if this is attractive for playerbase.   For gameplay like that I don't need to download gigs of client, just find some browser based idiotical java shooter is enough.
Dingman: One may counter, that making this game dumb is actually helping young people grow, because they will stop wasting their time with this and maybe find something better to do ...

Edited by Renwor, 27 September 2013 - 01:43 PM.


 


caeman #132 Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:50 PM

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Begone with you Auto-AIM!  If a pilot is incapable of getting their cross-hair near the lead indicator on their own, they shouldn't be playing this game.  the lack of auto-aim is what rewarded those that cared to improve their piloting.

NefertumCz #133 Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:51 PM

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yeah this game changed extremely after the patch for me... it doesnt feel like it used to am dead way too fast and i am amazed how fast and how much dmg i can do where in past i've struggled. I thought that this game will be skilled base so thats way i started to play it but now its gone...

DingMan #134 Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:57 PM

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View PostRenwor, on 27 September 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Dingman: One may counter, that making this game dumb is actually helping young people grow, because they will stop wasting their time with this and maybe find something better to do ...

Hah, I guess many people could argue that. But I think most people don't realize the importance that playing has in our lives. Most people think that plaing is trivial, or even silly "only kids play". When in fact playing is the most important activity for evey species, not just humans. Playing is the engine of evolution, because through playing individuals get the chance to try out new things without the fear of what consequences may a failure have (if it was for real, in which case, most of the times in nature, it may prove fatal), and more importantly through playing individuals learn from each other, they test themselves against each other and find their weaknesses and strengths, and learn how to better handle themselves. Without the activity of playing, we wouldn't be what we are today. And this is especially important for PvP games, because if you think about it, at its core, playing is PvP by nature, lion cubs don't play solitaire, they play with each other, simulating "battles", it's the same thing we do in WoWp give or take a few million years of evolution, but at its core it's the same thing.

So playing games is not at all a waste of time, but that is if, and ONLY IF, the play in which you engage provides a real challenge, from which you can learn, and which drives you to better yourself. If the game you play is dumbed down, if there is no challenge, then that IS indeed a waste of time.

_Grim_ #135 Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:02 PM

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Thank you ,for you words DingMan.They pretty much cover all the handholding in current gaming :sad: .
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King_ExtincE #136 Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:19 PM

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View PostDingMan, on 27 September 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:


WHY do you NEED to aid people? This is not a cooperative game, this is a PvP game, it's about who is BEST. Why be reminded daily that you suck when someone kicks your ass to the ground in WoWp because they have better skill, quicker reflexes, better multi-tasking ability, higher awarenes, and are more intelligent and cunning, when we can just add a feature to the game that will make every noob unaware of how bad he actually sucks, and hey... no need to actually learn anything, practice, or get better at anything...
Now, I'm NOT by far an elite player. I'm old, my reflexes are not what they used to be, my "processing" speed is not what it used to be, even my situational awareness is not as great at it used to be. But I'm still way better than your average WoWp player, and I am better because I put an effort into it. I wasn't born better, or smarter, or faster, I just choose to be, and practice, and evolved, and gotten better. And the fact that WG comes along, and adds a "feature" to the game, that literally takes a piss on my performance edge, and all my effort of self-improvement, is an insult to me,

I think most people are like this because that's how society made them. And it made them so exactly through this kind of nurturing and missguided sense of protection.
That's what happens when you lower the bar, athletes won't need to jump that high, they won't need to train so hard, they loose even more performance, they start getting fatter, and soon enough they won't even be able to "jump" over the low bar, and then you'll lower the bar again, and the whole cycle repeats itself.
That's the point of having the bar set high in the first place, you don't set the bar high so that everyone can jump it, you set it high so that it's hard as hell to jump it, and to encourage people to give their 110% and strive to get better, to be the best, and after hard work, and training, and effort, when they finally manage to jump the high bar, they are proud of their accomplishment, as it is truly and accomplishment. Being able to overcome hardship, to better yourself, to look up at others around you which are better than you, learn from them, and strive to be as good as they are one day.

So THAT'S why it's NOT ok to have aim assist. That's what's wrong with many many other things in our society, and what happened with this auto-aim is just another reminder of the terrible direction in which our species is heading towards.
Edit: Sorry
Don't be sorry don't be sorry...
You, my friend, have managed to put in to words what I've been trying to describe since they started lowering the bar by removing more and more skills in this game. Sorry that I edited your post, but I do not wish for this topic to derail it's attention towards the society related stuff you wrote and therefore have edited to contain all the game-related context.
This is EXACTLY why we 'elitists' are so unhappy with this game development. You think its fun to always win? Lemme tell you something.. I have averaged a winrate of 95% the first 3 weeks of this month with an average tier of 7. Did I feel content? No. Did I feel satisfied? No. Did I have a sense of accomplishment? NO.
Why?.. Read the quoted text above and you should be able to see for yourself. And no it's not something that has happened just this patch, it started in the 3.x series already. To keep it to this patch: Yes, there's always been some kind of assisting in aiming. I mean it's simply impossible that my Hitrate/accuracy in a flight game like wowp, is exactly the same as in BF2, BF BC2, and BF3 (20%). But I did practice for months and months to finetune my aim, and now WG comes along and pisses on me. I practiced for months to master the Stall-Turn, WG pissed on me. I learned from many, many mistakes and improved myself, only to see WG making it impossible to pull off what I practiced on to avoid situations by simplifying the physics over and over again. Now it's so goddamn simple, it's not even remotely enjoyable anymore. I practised countless hours to learn the exploding radius' of rockets and to make kills with them: WG pisses on me and randomises them. I practiced the same amount of time to make bomb-kills: WG pisses on me and the laws of physics. Three things have remained: Aim, Boostmanagement and Situational awareness. One of these has been made far less important now, and soon I imagine boost management will follow.
The fun in this game lied in its challenges, how it required you to become better, I got inspired on the NA server where I started by players like Ishmar, Herr Oberst NU, AdmiralKird and pretty much everyone else that is now a member of the Potato clan, they raped me when I came in to the game and they were my motivation to become better. They were my inspiration and after a good 3-4 months I started to become a challenging opponent for them.. All of that doesnt matter anymore as the game is not what it was, it's not an arcade/sim hybrid, its not even an arcade anymore as even arcades follow the laws of common-sense and physics and do not make exceptions on physics where they feel free. They dont have to be realistic but they do need to follow common sense. Killing someone 200m above you with a bomb whilst receiving 0hp damage yourself practically flying inside the bomb blast defies all logic. Bullets magically bending from right to left whilst guns are fixed defies all logic. Not being able to influence a stall duration or direction defies all logic. Gun dispersion as WG introduced it defies all logic..

The only reason im still here is because of the awesome people i've met around here and on TS and because we believed we could convince WG otherwise but making the aim-aid even more prolific has made us believe all our efforts are in vaine, there's no challenge at all anymore theres nothing to master there's no sense of accomplishment. There's absolutely 0 reason to stay except for the fun I have with the guys i've met here. But yeah they are now moving on to other games which do offer a challenge and once we've made our picks, I'm pretty sure we're gone.
                                                                                                                

kristermann #137 Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:51 PM

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F*** me, I actually agree with you there ExtincE

AnuSuaraj #138 Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:56 PM

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LOL...

If you agree with ExtincE than he MUST BE RIGHT!

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TinyViking #139 Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:03 PM

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Interesting read guys, I really appreciate the time you took to post here. I do have a request though:

Can you please also put as much feedback as you possibly can here? >http://forum.worldof...h-053-feedback/

We will be gathering it all at the start of next week and forward it to the developers so they can make further adjustments :).

 

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King_ExtincE #140 Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:06 PM

    You mad brah?

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View Postkristermann, on 27 September 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

F*** me, I actually agree with you there ExtincE
You know you've !@#$^%#!^!#@$^ up when this dude agrees with me WG..
                                                                                                                





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