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Say no to Autoaim!

wg has ruined wowp

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zimmah87 #241 Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:12 AM

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View PostCoreCapator, on 28 September 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

View PostAnuSuaraj, on 28 September 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

View PostCoreCapator, on 28 September 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

I expect a lot of downvotes on my opinion, mostly because the "pro players" will no longer be the only ones capable of getting decent amount of kills, and those with bad connection will finally be able to hit something that's not a ground target.
I support this feature, mainly because I consider people with very bad connections that would otherwise be, incapable of playing this game. Even with good ping there is the still present "Input lag" that shouldn't be here. This helps balance that out so even if you Lag, you will still get to hit something.
P.S. I have a 4 Mbit connection and even with 52ms, Plane takes 0.3 seconds to turn after I press a key. Also, to further explain, this is the "Best" option avaliable in my country that has a "Reasonable" price of 30 euros a month, whilist 10 Mbit connection requires you to sacrifice a goat every month.
I will not downvote you but instead logically explain why you are totally wrong...
No.1 it has already been determined that the new aimbot feature is not a feature but most likely a bug.
Secondly, I don't see how aimbot levels out the playing field for players with ping issues. I am one of those players since I believe I originate from the same country as you. I also get ping and other ping related issues (guns firing on their own or not firing at all, my camera angle switching about on its own etc..) and still manage to shoot planes down occassionally.
I mean it's a flight game where planes change direction rapidly so I really don't think you're gonna hit more even with aimbot.
In any case I have not heard of any MMO game in existance that provides players with aimbots in order to help with ping issues.
And frankly, I think the idea itself is quite silly.
So what are you suggesting then? Those with expensive dollar equipment should always be on the top just because they PAID for most precise equipment and connection speed? You can find auto-aim in most online fps shooters, though it activates if you get a ping of 300 and up. Why? Because it is a necessity. Otherwise you would never hit anyone at all. Even if this is a bug and it gets fixed soon, do we really need to always see  "SuperProPilot11" getting over 10 air kills in a single battle just because he has fast connection and good equipment?
And again, I really don't care about downvotes. They're just numbers that have zero meaning to me. Forums are for discussions of sharing opinion, and that is exactly what I am doing.

View PostLadyKurai, on 28 September 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

I have 3 mbit and everything works out fine.
Correction -> Worked.
Shared between 3 other computers?

With your logic I should be allowed to compete in motorbike racing on my bicycle because otherwise it would be unfair for me since I can't afford a racing bike.

of course I should have a head start of at least 19 laps in a 20 lap race otherwise I would not stand a chance.
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Infineon #242 Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:14 AM

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View Postzimmah87, on 29 September 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:


With your logic I should be allowed to compete in motorbike racing on my bicycle because otherwise it would be unfair for me since I can't afford a racing bike.

of course I should have a head start of at least 19 laps in a 20 lap race otherwise I would not stand a chance.

Would you apply for a motorbike race without having one? WHY would you do that?

LadyKurai #243 Posted 29 September 2013 - 07:25 AM

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Bike races are not even the point here -.-
concentrate on the subject please.

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m1nus #244 Posted 29 September 2013 - 07:48 AM

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Lol and i've sold the premium IL-2 cause I thought it was killed too easily compared to the normal ground attack planes. Then sadly realised that every one and their cat all that have to do is just stand behind you.

naksahdus #245 Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:00 AM

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OK, I played a LOT of round yesterday. Game was still playable, and did not feel unfair. Or, the unfair was me raping enemy teams. Rounds went very well according to noobmeter.

I think this "aimbot"-issue needs more in depth discussion. Why it is perhaps needed. And what other ways to achieve the same actual effect could be used.

Lets take a look back. When I started over year ago at summer, game looked very different. To ease aiming, all plane models were very big compared to movement speeds. Hitting enemies was easy. But on downside, feeling was like some jumbojets or zeppelins were fighting each other. There was no sense of speed, you kind of were sitting in air. And it was very easy to collide each other, mostly friendlies chasing same target. There was less "room" in air.

More refined implementation would be, to make planes smaller (more like normal size), this brings back feeling of speed, and decreases mid air crashes. This was done, and game started to feel better. Small step closer to real flying.

Earlier easier shooting could still be needed. One way to do it, would still be to keep bigger hitboxes around planes, for detecting shots hitting. Collision models for crashes, would still be small, size of visible plane model. Bigger shooting hitboxes would make planes easier to hit, but might look unrealistic, with ammo exploding in air around planes.

This current aimbot thingy, is just next iteration on this road. It can be mathematically, and gameplay wise, just the same than bigger hitboxes. It only fixes that "ammo hitting something invisible around planes". So aimbot can be viewed as an effort for visual clean up, to make game look better. Only that current implementation has seemingly failed in it's goal. It made game look more unreal. It's broke the suspension of disbelief. In real world, tracers don't shoot at angles from fixed guns...

So what next. In my view, there is 2 totally different things, that should be discussed separately.


1. Mathematics of hitting and damaging other players. Who makes how much damage statistically. Learning curve. Ease of starting this game. Playability with joystick and gamepads. How much pro players rape noobs.

2. Visual consistency. No sore spots. Guns shooting at angle. Fix of things that break illusion. Differences how you expect games world (or real world) to operate, and how you see it operate.


On point 2. I suggest: Never make visual tracers leave at angle. Make all guns have big enough visual spread pattern, that hits are inside it. Just stack the hit calculations on enemy, when it is in the area of that spread pattern.

On point 1. I have no suggestion. I had yesterday no feeling, that worse players hit me easier, than I hit them. It could be I had more help than them. According how games went. But that should show very easily on real combined statistics of players. Propably couple weeks of testing show the real effect what the change made. And what adjustment is perhaps needed. Of course, I'm too against any drastic changes, that turn this into a "children's game".

CLISSEFIGE #246 Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:01 AM

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View PostPythonUA, on 27 September 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

View PostCLISSEFIGE, on 27 September 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

I tested autoaim with a wingman, unfortunatly it is real!!!   if u play with same tiers it has almost no effect but if  for ex. a 410 uses autoaim against a tier 4, 410 kills tier 4 in seconds THIS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!
Even before 0.5.3 Me410 could kill IL-2(t) in seconds, though they are of same tier6. What does make you so surprised if Me410 kills tier4? Or before 0.5.3 that was acceptable? Or suggest another example.

I said if u fire using auto-aim, which means in practice that u dont aim upon your target but u fire approximatly near your target.
of course a 410 shoots down an Il in seconds but we are talking about the auto-aim.

                                     

                                                                                                                                           

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Perzel #247 Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:31 AM

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This game is no fun anymore since 5.3. the amount of damage dealt is much higer than before, Even heavy fighters and IL's get shot down with a few bursts of MG fire. Skill doesn't matter anymore, evading is of no use and my stats dropped drastically. I hope WG switches back to the old weapon mechanics and this game doesn't become like WoT where skill means nothing and luck means all.

Ozodis #248 Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:13 AM

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View PostCoreCapator, on 28 September 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Even with good ping there is the still present "Input lag" that shouldn't be here.

experienced the same thing...

sometimes input is not recognized while playing with a ping <25ms

naksahdus #249 Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:26 AM

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View PostPerzel, on 29 September 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

This game is no fun anymore since 5.3. the amount of damage dealt is much higer than before, Even heavy fighters and IL's get shot down with a few bursts of MG fire. Skill doesn't matter anymore, evading is of no use and my stats dropped drastically. I hope WG switches back to the old weapon mechanics and this game doesn't become like WoT where skill means nothing and luck means all.

There was other thing too, that came with new patch. The given, more experienced pilots/gunners. I have found, that crack shot skill is very effective. And best with MGs, that fire bullet clouds, smaller cloud does much more damage to enemy. Everyone having now good pilot can really change the combat environment too.

And in WoT, skill means everything. Luck is same for all. Because of skill, different players have very different winrates.

Znail #250 Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:00 PM

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+1 vote for removal of this 'feature'.

I was starting to wonder if the noobs had gotten better, but now I get it.

fallenkezef #251 Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:29 PM

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Is autoaim linked to crew skill? I'm not seeing a huge difference with my Brit crews.
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Deamon93 #252 Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:02 PM

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View Postfallenkezef, on 29 September 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Is autoaim linked to crew skill? I'm not seeing a huge difference with my Brit crews.

The difference is evident with nose mounted guns more than wing mounted ones.

With wing mounted guns is more difficult to see the difference between a normal gun dispersion and the auto aim. The wing mounted guns are like shotguns so it's quite difficult to see if the dispersion is sort of simmetrical or if they have a tendency towards one specific area. I've seen they have the same tendency but it's much more difficult to spot and isolate


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Ivan_Kulbich #253 Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:43 PM

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Ok, after looking into our battle statistics I can confirm that we have more than 50% increase in hits/shots ratio. It's more that can be explained by improved mouse controls, and most probably is a new bug in the code, related to "autoaim". There is other possibility that include OP "sniper" skill of pilot, so we will go deeper in analysis.
Thanks to everyone who brings the problem to our attention. We will continue to investigate the problem this week, and push for including fix in 0.5.3.3 if suspicion confirms.

Edited by Ivan_Kulbich, 29 September 2013 - 05:48 PM.


Deamon93 #254 Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:52 PM

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View PostIvan_Kulbich, on 29 September 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, after looking into our battle statistics I can confirm that we have more than 50% increase in hits/shots ratio. It's more that can be explained by improved mouse controls, and most probably is a new bug in the code, related to "autoaim". There is other possibility that include OP "sniper" skill of pilot, so we will go deeper in analysis.
Thanks to everyone who brings the problem to our attention. We will continue to investigate the problem this week, and push for including fix in 0.5.3.3 if suspicion confirms.

I hope you will fix it soon and it was our duty as testers to bring this issue to you ;)


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Gazenberg #255 Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:06 PM

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View PostIvan_Kulbich, on 29 September 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, after looking into our battle statistics I can confirm that we have more than 50% increase in hits/shots ratio. It's more that can be explained by improved mouse controls, and most probably is a new bug in the code, related to "autoaim". There is other possibility that include OP "sniper" skill of pilot, so we will go deeper in analysis.
Thanks to everyone who brings the problem to our attention. We will continue to investigate the problem this week, and push for including fix in 0.5.3.3 if suspicion confirms.

+1 from me.

Maybe make it an official announcement, not "just a post".

Hornet331 #256 Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

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View PostIvan_Kulbich, on 29 September 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, after looking into our battle statistics I can confirm that we have more than 50% increase in hits/shots ratio. It's more that can be explained by improved mouse controls, and most probably is a new bug in the code, related to "autoaim". There is other possibility that include OP "sniper" skill of pilot, so we will go deeper in analysis.
Thanks to everyone who brings the problem to our attention. We will continue to investigate the problem this week, and push for including fix in 0.5.3.3 if suspicion confirms.

pretty sure crack shot hasn't done anything to that, i had it on some pilotes before the update, but the "seeking" bullets which I notice on some planes never  occurred before this update.

Eviscerador #257 Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:21 PM

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View Postnaksahdus, on 29 September 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

View PostPerzel, on 29 September 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

This game is no fun anymore since 5.3. the amount of damage dealt is much higer than before, Even heavy fighters and IL's get shot down with a few bursts of MG fire. Skill doesn't matter anymore, evading is of no use and my stats dropped drastically. I hope WG switches back to the old weapon mechanics and this game doesn't become like WoT where skill means nothing and luck means all.
There was other thing too, that came with new patch. The given, more experienced pilots/gunners. I have found, that crack shot skill is very effective. And best with MGs, that fire bullet clouds, smaller cloud does much more damage to enemy. Everyone having now good pilot can really change the combat environment too.
And in WoT, skill means everything. Luck is same for all. Because of skill, different players have very different winrates.
No, experienced crews has nothing to do. Now evasive maneuvers are useless, it is just head on and shot, because the other guy is gonna hit you even if you do barrel rolls, or cork screws or anything. They are gonna hit you easy, and since the damage is almost doubled, you will be dead in no time.
I'm just changing my tactis to go back to base, wait till all the random players goes head on and such, and after that join the fray. Because the first head on pass is just a mater of luck.
Also, my win ratio has dropped down from 75% average till patch to 55% in the last two days. All of a sudden, altitude is no advantage, fighters shooting upwards can kill you as fast as you can kill them going down, ceiling limits now are absurd, and jets are absurdly overpowered. And two hits and you are dead.
It is not just autoaim. A lot of changes has been introduced to lower the average skill needed to shot down a plane. And where before most of players cannot kill a plane, now most games end with almost everyone scoring a kill. Just because you have no advantages, and you are just forced to head on at low level, or nothing else.

Edited by Eviscerador, 29 September 2013 - 06:56 PM.


Bigglesof206 #258 Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

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Thank goodness you appreciate this is a game killing bug, in the face of the (derogatory term removed prior to typing) people who think it's a good idea to help bad shots hit their targets.

I can shoot anywhere 'aboutish' an enemy plane and hit it, I am definitely killing people I should be taking minor percentages off. Flying GAA I am dying in no time flat as soon as anything gets on my tail - a shopping cart with a water pistol can down an IL2, and that's just wrong.

Battles, if you get stuck in rather than fannying about at the edges, are over in less than 2 minutes - you kill 1, 2 maybe 3 guys in almost no time then an enemy gets behind you and, quite simply, you are dead because evasive tactics don't work fast enough to overcome the rapid loss of HP.

I am ASTOUNDED that there a people on here arguing otherwise when it is blatantly obvious. This mechanism will do for WoWp what you see in WoT - the vast majority will have 50% WR+/- 2%, a few unicums will stand out, as will the bots, but the vast majority might as well be in a raffle.


Right now I am playing my daily 10/10/10, and despite the Brits I'm not really enjoying it much as it's such a lottery - if the lottery continues I'll take the Beta tokens for premium, play a few months back in WoT, and probably head elsewhere.
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_Grim_ #259 Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:35 PM

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View PostHornet331, on 29 September 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

View PostIvan_Kulbich, on 29 September 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, after looking into our battle statistics I can confirm that we have more than 50% increase in hits/shots ratio. It's more that can be explained by improved mouse controls, and most probably is a new bug in the code, related to "autoaim". There is other possibility that include OP "sniper" skill of pilot, so we will go deeper in analysis.
Thanks to everyone who brings the problem to our attention. We will continue to investigate the problem this week, and push for including fix in 0.5.3.3 if suspicion confirms.

pretty sure crack shot hasn't done anything to that, i had it on some pilotes before the update, but the "seeking" bullets which I notice on some planes never  occurred before this update.

Yep.I have experience the aim-bot on both planes with crews who have Crack Shot and on 75% crews I had just bough,so it doesn't seem to be a problem with the skill.
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ArmasP #260 Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:38 PM

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Thank god and country and wg, we are getting the game back to the state of fun, challenge and pure enjoyment!!!
hopefully...

Edited by ArmasP, 29 September 2013 - 07:33 PM.

DfA





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