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Say no to Autoaim!

wg has ruined wowp

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King_ExtincE #261 Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:38 PM

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View PostArmasP, on 29 September 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thank god and country and wg, we are getting the game back to the state of fun, challenge and pure enjoyment!!!
hopefully...
Only if in your opinion this bug is the only fun-breaking factor.. Wasn't much fun before 053 either imo
                                                                                                                

TinManNL #262 Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:18 PM

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View PostExtincE, on 29 September 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

View PostArmasP, on 29 September 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thank god and country and wg, we are getting the game back to the state of fun, challenge and pure enjoyment!!!
hopefully...
Only if in your opinion this bug is the only fun-breaking factor.. Wasn't much fun before 053 either imo
Well that's the thing, this bug is so insideous it's hard to keep track of the rest.
How are we supposed to comment on hitboxes, evasion, ground attack, plane balance and all that kind of stuff when there's an AI doing your work?
Right now it's *shrug* auto-aim is making this or that or the other impossible, or at the very least very hard, so it's next to impossible to gather clear data.


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King_ExtincE #263 Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:07 AM

    You mad brah?

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View PostTinManNL, on 29 September 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

View PostExtincE, on 29 September 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

View PostArmasP, on 29 September 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thank god and country and wg, we are getting the game back to the state of fun, challenge and pure enjoyment!!!
hopefully...
Only if in your opinion this bug is the only fun-breaking factor.. Wasn't much fun before 053 either imo
Well that's the thing, this bug is so insideous it's hard to keep track of the rest.
How are we supposed to comment on hitboxes, evasion, ground attack, plane balance and all that kind of stuff when there's an AI doing your work?
Right now it's *shrug* auto-aim is making this or that or the other impossible, or at the very least very hard, so it's next to impossible to gather clear data.
Well it's simple.. If this bug makes the top of the server go down by 10-30% in each and every stat just because of an aiming bug, you should know you've removed too much player skills and oversimplified the physics and game mechanics. And guess what.. Almost every single ace pilot on this server went down 10% or more in winratio, 10% or more in survival rate, 20% or more in kills per death ratio etc, compared to their stats of the week prior to the patch release.

Edited by ExtincE, 30 September 2013 - 02:12 AM.

                                                                                                                

vlasterx #264 Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:16 AM

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Everything looks the same to me now as it was in last patch.

DingMan #265 Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:23 AM

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View PostIvan_Kulbich, on 27 September 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

:ohmy:
Guys, calm down a bit please.

Nothing changed with autoaim in 0.5.3. Nothing changed in autoaim for at least half of year.

Autoaim only helps a bit, gives few hits instead of nothing. Skill still matter a lot, good shooting gives much more hits.  :playing:
Evasion also is very possible for skilled player.

Also autoaim reduces for higher tiers and for bigger cannons.

:honoring:

Soooo... is WG saying that the videos posted on this thread are fake? Cause I'm seeing something plain and clear, and I'm also seeing it plain and clear in my own tests in-game, and then you come say it doesn't happen... So which one is it?

DingMan #266 Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:32 AM

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View PostIvan_Kulbich, on 29 September 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, after looking into our battle statistics I can confirm that we have more than 50% increase in hits/shots ratio. It's more that can be explained by improved mouse controls, and most probably is a new bug in the code, related to "autoaim". There is other possibility that include OP "sniper" skill of pilot, so we will go deeper in analysis.
Thanks to everyone who brings the problem to our attention. We will continue to investigate the problem this week, and push for including fix in 0.5.3.3 if suspicion confirms.

Well it's great you guys agree that something's wrong, it would be even better if you agreed you tried to push a hidden machanic into the game and you got caught. Your statements are offensive to the community, it's like you're taking all of us for idiots. We posted clear videos of the bullets magically flying towards the target on their own "free will", we tested this in game and confirmed that's what's happening, we confirm that those bullets actually do damage and it's not a "visual bug", and then you come deny anything, then you come with another reply and try to confuse us.... For God's sake be a man and admit it, have same balls, and say "Yes we screwed up, we tried to do something sneaky, it didn't work, we got caught with our pants down, we're sorry for trying to lie to our community and deceive you, we'll fix it up." That's all the community needs to hear, and everyone will be happy.

P.S. Different kind of people play this game, many of us have jobs, many of us even happen to be programmers, and many of us happen to see very clearly when someone's trying to BS them... shame on you.

DingMan #267 Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:42 AM

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To get back on topic... You know... thes consequence of this "bug" is that boom-and-zoom actually became a viable tactic. So those 50% of planes in the game which are energy fighters and need to boom-and-zoom, this was God sent, and personally I loved doing boom-and-zoom and actually be able to take my target out in one pass, contrary to before 5.3 when I would boom-and-zoom the living sh*t out of targets and wasn't able to land more than a few hits. The problem is, as energy fighters finally started becomming what they should be, dog-figthers and GAAs become useless since now you can't dodge much of anything (especially on GAA) and once a half-decent player gets on your tail you're dead nomatter what you try to pull.

So what I'm trying to say, this auto-assist fixed the half of the game that was broken, but in doing so broke the other half that was working. Maybe instead of removing the auto-assist entierly (idea to which I still am 100% behind, at least on the short-run), it would be better to do a compromise, to keep it, but instead nerf it to about 50% of what it is now. Fine-tune it to a point where boom-and-zoom is still viable, while dog figthers can still dodge enough of the damage so they don't become easy targets. But for the time being, I agree this needs to be removed completely, such experiments and fine-tuning should be mostly done on testing server not on live server.

Deamon93 #268 Posted 30 September 2013 - 05:28 AM

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View PostExtincE, on 30 September 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

View PostTinManNL, on 29 September 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

View PostExtincE, on 29 September 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

View PostArmasP, on 29 September 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thank god and country and wg, we are getting the game back to the state of fun, challenge and pure enjoyment!!!
hopefully...
Only if in your opinion this bug is the only fun-breaking factor.. Wasn't much fun before 053 either imo
Well that's the thing, this bug is so insideous it's hard to keep track of the rest.
How are we supposed to comment on hitboxes, evasion, ground attack, plane balance and all that kind of stuff when there's an AI doing your work?
Right now it's *shrug* auto-aim is making this or that or the other impossible, or at the very least very hard, so it's next to impossible to gather clear data.
Well it's simple.. If this bug makes the top of the server go down by 10-30% in each and every stat just because of an aiming bug, you should know you've removed too much player skills and oversimplified the physics and game mechanics. And guess what.. Almost every single ace pilot on this server went down 10% or more in winratio, 10% or more in survival rate, 20% or more in kills per death ratio etc, compared to their stats of the week prior to the patch release.

You have to count that the average player probably got an increase so, while you can see that something is wrong(after more than a year is not a problem) the average player believes he's improved. Getting a 10%+ increase in hit rate is quite an accomplishment if you were at 5 to 7% before the patch


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_Grim_ #269 Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:34 AM

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View PostDingMan, on 30 September 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

To get back on topic... You know... thes consequence of this "bug" is that boom-and-zoom actually became a viable tactic. So those 50% of planes in the game which are energy fighters and need to boom-and-zoom, this was God sent, and personally I loved doing boom-and-zoom and actually be able to take my target out in one pass, contrary to before 5.3 when I would boom-and-zoom the living sh*t out of targets and wasn't able to land more than a few hits. The problem is, as energy fighters finally started becomming what they should be, dog-figthers and GAAs become useless since now you can't dodge much of anything (especially on GAA) and once a half-decent player gets on your tail you're dead nomatter what you try to pull.

So what I'm trying to say, this auto-assist fixed the half of the game that was broken, but in doing so broke the other half that was working. Maybe instead of removing the auto-assist entierly (idea to which I still am 100% behind, at least on the short-run), it would be better to do a compromise, to keep it, but instead nerf it to about 50% of what it is now. Fine-tune it to a point where boom-and-zoom is still viable, while dog figthers can still dodge enough of the damage so they don't become easy targets. But for the time being, I agree this needs to be removed completely, such experiments and fine-tuning should be mostly done on testing server not on live server.

As it stood,in 0.5.2. BnZ wasn't underpowered.No,in fact it was borderline OP as planes just entered god mode as soon as you went up due to dispersion.You literally had no chance to win against a BnZ US carrier based or german heavy who knew how to fly it,in something like the soviet fighers which specialize in TnB.There was really no incentive to play any of the TnB planes if you wanted to win...
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Eviscerador #270 Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:50 AM

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View Post_Grim_, on 30 September 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

View PostDingMan, on 30 September 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

To get back on topic... You know... thes consequence of this "bug" is that boom-and-zoom actually became a viable tactic. So those 50% of planes in the game which are energy fighters and need to boom-and-zoom, this was God sent, and personally I loved doing boom-and-zoom and actually be able to take my target out in one pass, contrary to before 5.3 when I would boom-and-zoom the living sh*t out of targets and wasn't able to land more than a few hits. The problem is, as energy fighters finally started becomming what they should be, dog-figthers and GAAs become useless since now you can't dodge much of anything (especially on GAA) and once a half-decent player gets on your tail you're dead nomatter what you try to pull.

So what I'm trying to say, this auto-assist fixed the half of the game that was broken, but in doing so broke the other half that was working. Maybe instead of removing the auto-assist entierly (idea to which I still am 100% behind, at least on the short-run), it would be better to do a compromise, to keep it, but instead nerf it to about 50% of what it is now. Fine-tune it to a point where boom-and-zoom is still viable, while dog figthers can still dodge enough of the damage so they don't become easy targets. But for the time being, I agree this needs to be removed completely, such experiments and fine-tuning should be mostly done on testing server not on live server.

As it stood,in 0.5.2. BnZ wasn't underpowered.No,in fact it was borderline OP as planes just entered god mode as soon as you went up due to dispersion.You literally had no chance to win against a BnZ US carrier based or german heavy who knew how to fly it,in something like the soviet fighers which specialize in TnB.There was really no incentive to play any of the TnB planes if you wanted to win...
You are right, and lowering the dispersion while shooting upwards was supposed to avoid that tactic. The problem is that the autoaim, new optimal ceiling cap and the increase in weapon damage has made Z&B fighters almost useless.

_Grim_ #271 Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:04 AM

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View PostEviscerador, on 30 September 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

View Post_Grim_, on 30 September 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

View PostDingMan, on 30 September 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

To get back on topic... You know... thes consequence of this "bug" is that boom-and-zoom actually became a viable tactic. So those 50% of planes in the game which are energy fighters and need to boom-and-zoom, this was God sent, and personally I loved doing boom-and-zoom and actually be able to take my target out in one pass, contrary to before 5.3 when I would boom-and-zoom the living sh*t out of targets and wasn't able to land more than a few hits. The problem is, as energy fighters finally started becomming what they should be, dog-figthers and GAAs become useless since now you can't dodge much of anything (especially on GAA) and once a half-decent player gets on your tail you're dead nomatter what you try to pull.

So what I'm trying to say, this auto-assist fixed the half of the game that was broken, but in doing so broke the other half that was working. Maybe instead of removing the auto-assist entierly (idea to which I still am 100% behind, at least on the short-run), it would be better to do a compromise, to keep it, but instead nerf it to about 50% of what it is now. Fine-tune it to a point where boom-and-zoom is still viable, while dog figthers can still dodge enough of the damage so they don't become easy targets. But for the time being, I agree this needs to be removed completely, such experiments and fine-tuning should be mostly done on testing server not on live server.

As it stood,in 0.5.2. BnZ wasn't underpowered.No,in fact it was borderline OP as planes just entered god mode as soon as you went up due to dispersion.You literally had no chance to win against a BnZ US carrier based or german heavy who knew how to fly it,in something like the soviet fighers which specialize in TnB.There was really no incentive to play any of the TnB planes if you wanted to win...
You are right, and lowering the dispersion while shooting upwards was supposed to avoid that tactic. The problem is that the autoaim, new optimal ceiling cap and the increase in weapon damage has made Z&B fighters almost useless.

Not realy,the BnZs are still the best choice,just because in the TnB planes,if you enter a dogfight,as soon as someone jumps you,you get obliterated due to the auto-aim and the inability to evade.
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_NoX_ #272 Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:15 AM

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This patch ruined whole gameplay. Witch autoaim all players were made to skilless drones. Now eaven tokens cant make me to play this game.

Eviscerador #273 Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:36 AM

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View Post_Grim_, on 30 September 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

View PostEviscerador, on 30 September 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

View Post_Grim_, on 30 September 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

View PostDingMan, on 30 September 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

To get back on topic... You know... thes consequence of this "bug" is that boom-and-zoom actually became a viable tactic. So those 50% of planes in the game which are energy fighters and need to boom-and-zoom, this was God sent, and personally I loved doing boom-and-zoom and actually be able to take my target out in one pass, contrary to before 5.3 when I would boom-and-zoom the living sh*t out of targets and wasn't able to land more than a few hits. The problem is, as energy fighters finally started becomming what they should be, dog-figthers and GAAs become useless since now you can't dodge much of anything (especially on GAA) and once a half-decent player gets on your tail you're dead nomatter what you try to pull.

So what I'm trying to say, this auto-assist fixed the half of the game that was broken, but in doing so broke the other half that was working. Maybe instead of removing the auto-assist entierly (idea to which I still am 100% behind, at least on the short-run), it would be better to do a compromise, to keep it, but instead nerf it to about 50% of what it is now. Fine-tune it to a point where boom-and-zoom is still viable, while dog figthers can still dodge enough of the damage so they don't become easy targets. But for the time being, I agree this needs to be removed completely, such experiments and fine-tuning should be mostly done on testing server not on live server.

As it stood,in 0.5.2. BnZ wasn't underpowered.No,in fact it was borderline OP as planes just entered god mode as soon as you went up due to dispersion.You literally had no chance to win against a BnZ US carrier based or german heavy who knew how to fly it,in something like the soviet fighers which specialize in TnB.There was really no incentive to play any of the TnB planes if you wanted to win...
You are right, and lowering the dispersion while shooting upwards was supposed to avoid that tactic. The problem is that the autoaim, new optimal ceiling cap and the increase in weapon damage has made Z&B fighters almost useless.

Not realy,the BnZs are still the best choice,just because in the TnB planes,if you enter a dogfight,as soon as someone jumps you,you get obliterated due to the auto-aim and the inability to evade.

Yes, I noticed that while trying to tech the british lights... So now you can't run, you can't hide in altitude, you can do agressive evasive maneuvers... you can just derp around and expect to kill 1 or 2 before somebody aim in your general direction and takes you down.

Raw fun!!

Renwor #274 Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:36 AM

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View PostDeamon93, on 30 September 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

the average player believes he's improved. Getting a 10%+ increase in hit rate is quite an accomplishment if you were at 5 to 7% before the patch

I don't think so. I would label myself as "an average player" if such thing exists at all (is it just statistical entity?)  
Even average player can figure out he couldn't get twice as good overnight. But what is even more noticable immediately is fast death speed.

While I am 100% supporting removal of this feature (or rather - reducing it to pre 0.5.3. level, as one may figure out from I.K. posts) I actually started to enjoy the game in this new form as well.  It just requires quite different approach entirely.  Don't present welcoming target is the rule - TnB is dead (or rather, you are) , furballs are even more no,no than before. Fly fast, fly high, or fly reall  low and fast, hide , shoot anything which moves, no matter the distance or angle.
      Thats why I suck so hard with Spit: I cannot keep to my own flight rules. Turning is so tempting :)


 


Flakmech #275 Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:42 AM

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View PostIvan_Kulbich, on 29 September 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, after looking into our battle statistics I can confirm that we have more than 50% increase in hits/shots ratio. It's more that can be explained by improved mouse controls, and most probably is a new bug in the code, related to "autoaim". There is other possibility that include OP "sniper" skill of pilot, so we will go deeper in analysis.
Thanks to everyone who brings the problem to our attention. We will continue to investigate the problem this week, and push for including fix in 0.5.3.3 if suspicion confirms.

+1 for checking this on a weekend  :teethhappy:


LadyKurai #276 Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:03 AM

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Good that they finally change the autoaim.
Spoiler                     

Edited by LadyKurai, 30 September 2013 - 08:16 AM.

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Shade1982 #277 Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:32 AM

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After WG has officially confirmed this to be a bug, people are still complaining? Really, this is more than we ever got on many other bugs, so enjoy it...


Fajtl #278 Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:34 AM

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That Fjord thing is bugging me too. I acctually like map where terrain plays a role, but it needs bit of a change in scaling imho.

zmeul #279 Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:39 AM

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View PostShade1982, on 30 September 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

After WG has officially confirmed this to be a bug
bug? what have you been smoking?!
bugs just don't appear and surely not in programming

do books write themselves? no
neither does programming code

the section that handles plane weapons / aiming was deliberately altered - they're gonna tell it's altered itself? HA!

yes, I'm a programmer and I know exactly what I'm talking about

the senior programmers just don't approve code without it doing exactly what was planed to do
you just don't touch code that you should not be touching

a bug, no .. this is a feature
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NefertumCz #280 Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:48 AM

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yeah bug story is just cover after they saw so many negative responses to this patch





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