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Rocket & Bomb Trap nerf 1.5 - need your vote!

Rocket bombs trap nerft of rocket rocet nerf bomb nerf 1.5 1.4.1 1.4

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Poll: Rocket & Bomb Trap nerf 1.5! (64 members have cast votes)

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As a Rocketeer & Bomb trapper do we like this Rocket & Bomb nerf in 1.5!

  1. I don't like it and I like as it was on 1.4.1 (50 votes [78.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 78.12%

  2. I like the new Rocket & Bomb nerf. (5 votes [7.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.81%

  3. I am not a fan of Rocketeer & Bomb trap. (7 votes [10.94%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.94%

  4. I never tried both rocket kills and bomb traps kills. (2 votes [3.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.12%

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OMG_Noob #1 Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:43 PM

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As a Rocketeer & bomb trapper I feel not to carrying those anymore after the 1.5

Just vote for it pls. 

WG! would you use this votes for the next patch? because I am crazy fan for Rockets and Bombs.


Edited by OMG_Noob, 24 August 2014 - 02:10 PM.


Hanszeehock #2 Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:16 PM

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Clearly nerfing rockets and bombs in the same patch as making ground targets harder to kill was never going to be a popular idea. It's like separate devs worked on these two things and didn't talk to each other. But you got to think: why did they do it ? Obviously there are quite a few people who have complained about bomb trapping and the fact that it is not realistic. I get that, but given it is in many cases the only defence ILs have, to nerf bomb traps without a counter balance like more armour for ILs or better rear gunners makes no sense at all. Then we get the rocket nerf. Why ? Did some dev get shot down and think, this is so OP we gotta nerf it. Even so why nerf them against ground targets ? Clearly the whole thing is ill considered and vote to go back to 1.4.1 !

OMG_Noob #3 Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:24 PM

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View PostHanszeehock, on 24 August 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Clearly nerfing rockets and bombs in the same patch as making ground targets harder to kill was never going to be a popular idea. It's like separate devs worked on these two things and didn't talk to each other. But you got to think: why did they do it ? Obviously there are quite a few people who have complained about bomb trapping and the fact that it is not realistic. I get that, but given it is in many cases the only defence ILs have, to nerf bomb traps without a counter balance like more armour for ILs or better rear gunners makes no sense at all. Then we get the rocket nerf. Why ? Did some dev get shot down and think, this is so OP we gotta nerf it. Even so why nerf them against ground targets ? Clearly the whole thing is ill considered and vote to go back to 1.4.1 !

Thanks for your vote Hans.. I got you almost but in some point i can't upgrade my English knowledge... :( sorry about my English. If I start a topic "how about my English" the result would be less than 50% 



Cheekibreekiivdamke #4 Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:43 PM

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Block Quote

  Well of course we want our players to act intelligently and play cooperatively instead of basically 15v15 team deathmatch. Prior to 1.5 GA gameplay was really primitive and drastically less demanding than fighters gameplay.
As for GA survivability – we lowered weapon accuracy at a distance so fighters won’t be able to shoot the GA plane down in one approach, and as for ramming – that’s actually a fun surprise for GA’s now. For example, one Il-2 can ram 2-3 fighters and keep flying now.

 

This is what WG actually believes.


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Cheaterhater #5 Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:45 PM

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Well, realism shouldn't be an excuse for that change. The gameplay isn't close to reality, and it never was (well, it was much, much closer to reality in the good ol' times of CBT). The developers didn't give us any reasoning for the rocket and bomb nerf, but should they ever say it was for more realism, that would be nothing but hypocrisy. Therefore, I really hope that this wasn't their reason for the nerf. Of course, the rocket explosion radius was ridiculously high compared to reality, and it still is after the nerf. However, rockets were a gameplay element. By nerfing them into uselessness, the devs are taking away from the gameplay and make the game more dull. Back in CBT, rockets didn't have that ridiculous random fuse timer (which also has nothing to do with reality, btw). Whether or not you could hit with a rocket solely depended on your skill. When they added that random fuse timer, players complained (of course!), and rocket kills became a luck scenario. Instead of firing one rocket at the point your enemy was going and scoring a secure kill in the process, you were now forced to spam two or more rockets to get the same result. Needless to say, the addition of randomness into the formula reduced the skill cap - your skill was no longer rewarded as much as it was before. Now, with the further nerfs, skill is almost no factor anymore. You can only score rocket kills by spamming all of your rockets, and only if you're lucky. That's just dull. Needless to say, this change needs to be reverted asap.

 

Also, if you were wondering why the devs nerfed rockets: For some odd reason, they thought (and still think) that WoWP was "too hard". They want to counter this by taking all the skill requirements out of the game, so that there's almost no difference between good and bad players anymore. Let me tell you, WoWP was never "too hard". It's quite the opposite - by dumbing down the gameplay (which you think makes the game more "beginner friendly" - it doesn't btw) you're scaring all players away. You hear complaints that the game doesn't feel like a flying game and is dull (the result of dumbing down the game), or that new players get stomped by statpadders (which is the matchmaker's fault, since you're still insisting on using that random matchmaking, although it has proven often enough that it doesn't work in WoWP, instead of using a proper skill-based solution). But you never hear complaints that the game is "too hard". A pure PvP game like WoWP can, by definition, never be "too hard". Human players play against other human players with the same chances, so for whom should it be "too hard"? Therefore, WoWP isn't "too hard", it never was. Now stop dumbing down the gameplay please, fix the controls, implement a matchmaker and you might see your game flourish.


Edited by Cheaterhater, 24 August 2014 - 02:47 PM.

RIP WoWP

Hanszeehock #6 Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:54 PM

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From the developer blog 

 

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 As you can see, the ground attack aircraft cost more than any other type. This is because they, especially if they attack targets together, can gain a huge point advantage very fast. That’s why since 1.5.0 your approach to gameplay should change a lot. First of all: GA planes matter. A lot. So they should never fly without escort – and vice versa, you should never ignore an unprotected ground attack plane. Secondly, the GA pilots shouldn’t be too greedy with their rockets and bombs – you’re better off dropping them on armored ground object parts and scoring some points than carrying them around as a way to protect yourself from enemy fighters by a bomb kill. But bear in mind that now precise aiming is a necessity – all the bombs and rockets have been rebalanced and their blast radius significantly reduced so it’s very hard to just drop a bomb anywhere on the target and destroy all its parts. If you have no outboard armament left – don’t waste too much time on tedious shooting at armored parts. If you see unarmored ones nearby – get rid of them as soon as possible. Every superiority point matters, and every second a ground attack aircraft is shooting its guns efficiently – no less so. And a final advice – always focus on AA gun parts first. First of all, every one of them costs 2 points, and secondly the fewer AA guns – the more HP you’ll save. More so, fighters might help you more safely if they won’t be shot at from every direction.

 

From this I'm thinking they didn't even consider the effects of the nerf on air to air use of rockets. Clearly from this the bomb trap nerf was deliberate.

 

 


Edited by Hanszeehock, 24 August 2014 - 03:01 PM.


AnuSuaraj #7 Posted 24 August 2014 - 03:47 PM

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View PostCheaterhater, on 24 August 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Well, realism shouldn't be an excuse for that change. The gameplay isn't close to reality, and it never was (well, it was much, much closer to reality in the good ol' times of CBT).

 

No, it wasn't. The ground attacking model in 1.5 was obviously hastly implemented and obviously wasn't fine tuned properly, but ground attacking has always felt really retarded, even in closed Beta. Basically, you're shooting at a huge stationary and unrealistically placed ground target while AA takes your HP away according to some silly sequenced algorithym that doesn't take into account your maneuvers or lack thereof.

 

Also, taking out warships with .50 cal MGs is stupid as hell.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 24 August 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Well, realism shouldn't be an excuse for that change. The gameplay isn't close to reality, and it never was (well, it was much, much closer to reality in the good ol' times of CBT). The developers didn't give us any reasoning for the rocket and bomb nerf, but should they ever say it was for more realism, that would be nothing but hypocrisy. Therefore, I really hope that this wasn't their reason for the nerf. Of course, the rocket explosion radius was ridiculously high compared to reality, and it still is after the nerf. However, rockets were a gameplay element. By nerfing them into uselessness, the devs are taking away from the gameplay and make the game more dull.

 

I'm sorry Cheater but I really see the reduced blast radius of HE ordinance as a good thing. Every game, arcade or not, requires a bit of common sense. Bombs have always been nukes in this game and rockets have always had an unrealistic effect too. You can literally count the number of aircraft destroyed by rockets in WW2 on the fingers of one hand, yet in WoWP rockets have killed thousands of planes. I have a crapload of Rockeeters that I've mostly earned by spamming rockets or by derping low flying Shturmoviks.

 

I think that your love for rocket kills is making you a bit biased here.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 24 August 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Back in CBT, rockets didn't have that ridiculous random fuse timer (which also has nothing to do with reality, btw). Whether or not you could hit with a rocket solely depended on your skill. Enemy was going and scoring a secure kill in the process, you were now forced to spam two or more rockets to get the same result. Needless to say, the addition of randomness into the formula reduced the skill cap - your skill was no longer rewarded as much as it was before. Now, with the further nerfs, skill is almost no factor anymore. You can only score rocket kills by spamming all of your rockets, and only if you're lucky. That's just dull. Needless to say, this change needs to be reverted asap. 

 

This is where you took it too far. Shame on you. You know full well that rockets were OP as hell for most of the CBT and were basically a skill-less way of getting free kills at the start of every battle.

 

Just try to remember all the whine threads opened in CBT that targeted rockets and players who used them often.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 24 August 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Also, if you were wondering why the devs nerfed rockets: For some odd reason, they thought (and still think) that WoWP was "too hard". They want to counter this by taking all the skill requirements out of the game, so that there's almost no difference between good and bad players anymore. Let me tell you, WoWP was never "too hard". It's quite the opposite - by dumbing down the gameplay (which you think makes the game more "beginner friendly" - it doesn't btw) you're scaring all players away. You hear complaints that the game doesn't feel like a flying game and is dull (the result of dumbing down the game), or that new players get stomped by statpadders (which is the matchmaker's fault, since you're still insisting on using that random matchmaking, although it has proven often enough that it doesn't work in WoWP, instead of using a proper skill-based solution). But you never hear complaints that the game is "too hard". A pure PvP game like WoWP can, by definition, never be "too hard". Human players play against other human players with the same chances, so for whom should it be "too hard"? Therefore, WoWP isn't "too hard", it never was. Now stop dumbing down the gameplay please, fix the controls, implement a matchmaker and you might see your game flourish.

 

I agree that WoWP was never too hard. It is, in fact, too easy. Just today a WoT tomato has written how he's "going to rule the skies one day and pwn tanks and warships". He has a 53% WR in WoWP.

 

The game is dumbed down as far as it can be. And it seems to me that WG is not "dumbing down the game further", but is instead bringing some skill elements back (albeit in an untested and hastly implemented condition).

 

I don't know how skill-based MM would work in WoWP, but I honestly don't think the game needs it. Back in CBT, the best players had 60% WRs and there was hardly any newb bashing going on.

 

I think that reconstruction of game play by way of reducing the preformance gap between BnZ and TnB planes would do more for the game than skill-based MM.

 


Edited by AnuSuaraj, 24 August 2014 - 03:57 PM.

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Cheaterhater #8 Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:36 PM

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View PostAnuSuaraj, on 24 August 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

No, it wasn't. The ground attacking model in 1.5 was obviously hastly implemented and obviously wasn't fine tuned properly, but ground attacking has always felt really retarded, even in closed Beta. Basically, you're shooting at a huge stationary and unrealistically placed ground target while AA takes your HP away according to some silly sequenced algorithym that doesn't take into account your maneuvers or lack thereof.

 

Also, taking out warships with .50 cal MGs is stupid as hell.

 

I wasn't referring to ground attacking at all, but the gameplay in general. All I said was that it felt more realistic, with stuff like stall and without hyperdrive boost. I just said that you can't change stuff for the sake of balance, and change other stuff for "realism" (or "historical accuracy" for that matter). That would be, like I said, hypocrisy.

 

And of course, ground attacking has always been unrealistic. An IL-2 taking out an entire fleet is stupid, and I did never deny that.

 

View PostAnuSuaraj, on 24 August 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

I'm sorry Cheater but I really see the reduced blast radius of HE ordinance as a good thing. Every game, arcade or not, requires a bit of common sense. Bombs have always been nukes in this game and rockets have always had an unrealistic effect too. You can literally count the number of aircraft destroyed by rockets in WW2 on the fingers of one hand, yet in WoWP rockets have killed thousands of planes. I have a crapload of Rockeeters that I've mostly earned by spamming rockets or by derping low flying Shturmoviks.

 

I think that your love for rocket kills is making you a bit biased here.

 

This is where you took it too far. Shame on you. You know full well that rockets were OP as hell for most of the CBT and were basically a skill-less way of getting free kills at the start of every battle.

 

Just try to remember all the whine threads opened in CBT that targeted rockets and players who used them often.

 

The reduced blast radius might have been a good thing if this was still 0.3.x. However, the combination of smaller blast radii and random fuse timers make rockets essentially useless. Rockets were indeed OP in 0.3.x; however, they were equally OP for everyone. When two equally good players fly towards each other and fire their rockets, you would expect both of them to explode (given that they don't evade, of course). With the random fuse timers, however, it's very well possible that one survives while the other one doesn't. And this is where the skill cap has been reduced - it's not beneficial to gameplay if such situations are decided by luck. Just so you know, when rockets got that stupid random fuse timer in 0.4.0, I said already that if they needed nerfing, it should be done by reducing the abnormally huge blast radius, not by adding randomness. Now they did both, and that's how rockets became useless. If they removed the random timers, rockets might actually require skill, while not being OP due to the reduced blast radius and the much different flight model. However, we can only find out if the devs actually try that. Right now, rockets are useless, and that's all I'm saying.

 

View PostAnuSuaraj, on 24 August 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

I don't know how skill-based MM would work in WoWP, but I honestly don't think the game needs it. Back in CBT, the best players had 60% WRs and there was hardly any newb bashing going on.

 

I think that reconstruction of game play by way of reducing the preformance gap between BnZ and TnB planes would do more for the game than skill-based MM.

 

Up until 0.3.5, there weren't any flights that allowed you to statpad. And I think that this factors a lot. Right now, you only have very few players that can manage a win rate of over 60% by playing alone. Also, it always takes some time until game mechanics are exploited to their fullest. BnZ became OP with 0.4.0 (with the introduction of hyperdrive boost). Yet it took until 0.4.3 or even 0.5.0 until everyone was abusing it. And yes, of course the gameplay should be balanced. But right now it's not only ridiculous because of the imbalance, but also because of the matchmaker. I've read of players who stopped playing after a few matches just because they got stomped by experienced players, while they were still learning the controls. I started WoT recently, and as someone who just started playing, there's a lot you need to learn. Although I don't think I'm a slow learner and I try to use my common sense while playing, I was practically useless in my first games. And in every second match, there was a statpadding platoon (3xT18 seems to be nice for bashing noobs who didn't understand the game yet), which made the overall experience very frustrating. As someone who just started playing, I don't want to play against statpadders, but against players who are at about the same skill level, so I don't feel useless. Now, even though WoWP is a different game (though it has too much in common with WoT, which is another problem), it uses the same random matchmaking. And exactly the same that happened to me in WoT happens to new players in WoWP. I mean, after almost 300 battles in WoT, it started getting better. But I'm not sure if I would have endured so much if I didn't know already how the matchmaker works. Probably not. And well, in WoWP, new players just get stomped right at the start for a few battles in a row and uninstall, because they didn't even have an opportunity to learn the game. And getting stomped for about 300 battles until you're getting better is not fun - and fun should be what a game is about. I play games for entertainment, not for frustration. And well, at the same time, better players in higher tiers complain that players who died their way up to tier 10 get into their team and ruin the game for them. So no matter how good you are, skill-bases matchmaking can't make the game any worse for you. The worst that can happen is that the matchmaking stays like it is now.


Edited by Cheaterhater, 24 August 2014 - 04:38 PM.

RIP WoWP

OMG_Noob #9 Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:07 PM

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one thing you all forget guys! is that this is just a game. so in game there can be some additions than in real life battle! don't you agree? 

1.5 bring me the possibility to make more frags but reduced the bomb trap kills and rocket kills. then why the hell I need those medals? 

I promise you this one!. If any one make a Zvonarev Medal in 1.5  I give you 1000 Gold for sure (1st player only). But send me the battle replay to make sure that!



Shepbur #10 Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:46 PM

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View PostPrimarch_Victus, on 24 August 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

This is what WG actually believes.

 

It's because we're always going on about how fail everyone is and we're destroying them in their hundreds in our Bsh's and IL's :)


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ChavpussRed #11 Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:41 PM

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yes its your fault

_Stealth_Hunter_ #12 Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:47 PM

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Maybe we should start talking about certain planes being horrible and how we barely manage to get one kill flying those machines to get them buffed then? :hiding:

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Grumpy_Guts #13 Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:17 PM

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Its a game in arcade style to be played for fun and enjoyment, if you want realism play a simulator game.

Reinstate and improve Rocket & Bomb Trap not nerf it.  



Shepbur #14 Posted 24 August 2014 - 08:12 PM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 24 August 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

Maybe we should start talking about certain planes being horrible and how we barely manage to get one kill flying those machines to get them buffed then? :hiding:

 

The HGII is really crap, i mean it needs to go like 5x faster and get 2 more guns... at the moment it can't do shit against anything :trollface:


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benr4ever3 #15 Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:25 PM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 24 August 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

Maybe we should start talking about certain planes being horrible and how we barely manage to get one kill flying those machines to get them buffed then? :hiding:

 

 

Let's have more firepower for the yaks for ?@¥#%'s sake! They have big Russian cannons and seem to do less damage than most rear gunners. It's just awful. I play yaks a lot, and so many times you get on the tail of a HF and by the Time it's shot Down, all your team are dead and you've been pounced on by seemingly every plane in hell. In short- yak needs more firepower! (Refering to yak-3 and yak-1 line in particular, yak 7 line has enougth, later tier jets need the boost too!)



dan_can #16 Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:08 AM

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Rocket & bomb nerf took away all fun playing IL-10, anfd this was the only plane I was flying on a regular basis as the overall gameplay is rather dull atm.

 

Sometimes I really think that WG gets there feedback from not really realiable sources, b/c the decisions they are making are against everything the community wants.

 

 

And I finally lost my patience...


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Euan_Huzarmy #17 Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:19 AM

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View Postdan_can, on 25 August 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

Rocket & bomb nerf took away all fun playing IL-10, anfd this was the only plane I was flying on a regular basis as the overall gameplay is rather dull atm.

 

Sometimes I really think that WG gets there feedback from not really realiable sources, b/c the decisions they are making are against everything the community wants.

 

 

And I finally lost my patience...

 

Amen to that dan. also It is the economies (due to over zealous supremacy) that limits what you can earn through achievement. Nerfed munitions mean you cannot destroy as many GT's as before which in turn limits what you can achieve and earn in currency accordingly. Even a win and finishing top of the XP earners will more often than not leave you with a minus in currency earned due to cost of resupplies. 


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dan_can #18 Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:02 AM

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And btw, making bombs traps less efficient means that GAA are more easy prey for enemy heavies, especially in higher tier matches.

 

Not to mention that ILs became rather useless, as killing fighters nets more supr points than most of the GTs.

 

Quote

I'm sorry Cheater but I really see the reduced blast radius of HE ordinance as a good thing. Every game, arcade or not, requires a bit of common sense. Bombs have always been nukes in this game and rockets have always had an unrealistic effect too. You can literally count the number of aircraft destroyed by rockets in WW2 on the fingers of one hand, yet in WoWP rockets have killed thousands of planes. I have a crapload of Rockeeters that I've mostly earned by spamming rockets or by derping low flying Shturmoviks.

 

WoWp - Realism :amazed:

 

That would work if there was actual teamplay during random matches, meaning that ILs would be receive air cover while going after GTs. We all know that this is not the case, so bomb trapping was one defense mechanism players could use. And you would still have to learn how to use them.

 

Rocktes on the 410/a-5 are the biggest in the game, not even an IL40p has bigger ones, so yes, it was very easy to take out low flying ILs with them.

But I guess using rockets in air combat is not a skill you seem to favour much, even if players spend hours on learning how to use them (I started them using them after they nerfed the guns on the IL10 multiple times).

By reducing their effectivness (same with bombs) WG actually discourages people to learn anything and basically just to derp their way through.

 

Now you can go into a head-one without never ever having to worry about eating a rocket or even crashing if you cannot kill your opponent fast enough.

 

And it makes totally sense to (on some maps) double the amount of GTs while reducing the overall effectiveness of your ordenance.


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jakub_czyli_ja #19 Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:38 AM

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Instead of rocket kills and bomb traps there is really retarded ramming mechanics - I've seen a 262 hitting an Il-20 wing edge and bowing while Il flew straight like before, and I think that change is much more gamebreaking than reducing bomb and rockets effectiveness.

That effectiveness was something violating common sense.

 

In exchange rear gunners became effective, so the only defenseless Ils are tier IV and V.

 

GAA Rockets were ineffective as hell - even Wikipedia states single digit accuracy: http://en.wikipedia....(rocket_family) and you demand them to be used to take down aircrafts.

Bomb and rocket strength nerf seems like they have been dragged to common denominator with WoT HE damage power.

 

On the other side - ground targets, at least armored ones, seem too tough - I've dropped FAB-500 on a ground targets made from 3 yellow and one red square - red stayed alive.

In reality when construction workers dig out a bomb like that, citizens in few hundred meters radius are being asked to leave their houses and to go somewhere else till the bomb will be taken away.

 



Pterosaur_1 #20 Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:43 AM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 24 August 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

Maybe we should start talking about certain planes being horrible and how we barely manage to get one kill flying those machines to get them buffed then? :hiding:

 

1. Me262 guns are terribly inaccurate (especially while turning), even if you have the opponent at 600m and right in the middle of your crosshairs

 

2. P-51D guns make less damage than a waterpistol

 

3. IL2, IL10 are considered by the game as "effective against armored GTs", but the IL8, IL20 and IL40 not. Why? I fly both the IL2(t) (620battles, triple skilled crew) and IL10 (420 battles, triple skilled crew, 22 GTs in one battle personal record), yet destroying GTs is nearly impossible and as I understand, unless you destroy those parts of a target as well, you don't get a "ground target kill" added to your stats. As it is now, I don't see the point of flying ILs anymore because it's frustrating (for me at least). I like the new animated ships and the idea of mutli-section targets, but please do something about the armored parts.

4. BF110-C accuracy has decreased a lot in v1.5 (anyone else noticed?)

5. Despite my overall negative impression so far from v1.5, I seem to get slightly better results in light fighters now for some reason (A6M5, La-5, Spitfire), although to be honest, I hadn't flown them for some months so perhaps it's just a coincidence.

As far as realism is concerned, we should never expect the game to be like real life. I was never unlucky enough to fly a plane in a war, but if you watch real footage from dogfights, you will see that sometimes, one small burst of bullets was enough to bring someone down and even one bullet in the pilot's head was enough to bring a plane down, plus that they also had a limited number of ammo and fuel.

My humble personal conclusion: Either bring v1.4 back, or develop v1.5.1 asap

Edit: I forgot to mention that with the changes in MM, I hardly get to play a full 15 Vs 15 battle now. I'd rather fight Me262s in my A6M5 like before. Not that I liked it, but at least there were 30 planes in each battle. I also don't like the fact that battles end very quickly now, even though there might still be 5 planes from each side still in the game and 10min on the clock.


Edited by Pterosaur_1, 25 August 2014 - 08:52 AM.





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