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Bomber Run Game Mode

Bomber Run Game Mode

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CoreCapator #1 Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:04 AM

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Bombing Run Game Mode - Original Variant

 

Yes I know bombers are not yet "Officially" in the game yet, but keep in mind that we're talking about NPC-controlled Bombers! With that in mind, please read on :)

 

This game mode is all about getting as many of your team's bombers as possible to your enemy's base in one piece. To do so, your team must protect your bombers AND attackers from the enemy team, as both are crucial in this game mode. In addition, this game mode would have a fixed time of five or more minutes.

 

If anyone has any suggestions or questions, feel free to ask, In case I missed something!

 

ROLES
    Heavy Fighters - Intercept and destroy enemy bombers and fighters OR assist attackers to reduce Enemy AA field strength
    Light Fighters - Intercept and destroy enemy bombers and fighters
    Attacker - Reduce enemy AA strength
    NPC Bomber - Reach and bomb enemy base

 

***PLEASE VIEW THE SCHEME BEFORE READING THE REST!***

 

 

Battlefield Explanation:


1. Supremacy Meter - this indicates how close the bombers are to the enemy's base and the AA field. The indicator moves at the same speed as the bombers, which would be a Fixed speed of, say, 200 Km/h or more. This speed could depend on map size as well .
    - Bomber Indicator moves at the same fixed speed regardless of the amount of bombers on the team.
    - A team wins if at least one out of three bombers reaches the enemy base without getting destroyed in the process.
    - Battle can result in a draw if all bombers on both teams are destroyed by players or AA.
    - Even if the whole team gets destroyed but bombers manage to survive and bomb the enemy base, that team wins.
    - In an event that one bomber from one team reaches the base, and two from the other team, battle results in a draw (both bases destroyed regardless) Team with more bombers that reach and bomb the base win!

    - Bombers from both team enter the AA field during the middle of the battle.
    - AA field strength percentage is reduced by the number of AA guns destroyed by Attacker aircraft.
    - AA guns will not fire on the enemy unless they enter the AA field range as indicated on the Supremacy meter.

 

 

2. Battle Overview
    - As seen on the scheme, Enemy base is surrounded by Anti-Aircraft field. In this game mode, AA would have 70% chance to shoot at the bombers, and 30% to shoot at other planes.
    - Depending on tier, bombers would have between 1000 and 10,000 Health points each.
    - 3 Bombers can survive the AA field at 100% if all 3 bomber's health is at least at 80% which would be highly unlikely to occur.
    - 2 Bombers can survive the AA field at 80% if all 2 bomber's health is at 90%+ which is again highly unlikely to occur.
    - 1 Bomber cannot survive the AA field even if at full health if the AA field strength is higher than 45%.

    - The more of your bombers reach enemy's base, the higher the XP reward to keep the players focused on destroying the bombers and protecting them.

    - A fancy cinematic would play depending on how many bombers reach and bomb the base.


    
3. Formations
    - Attacker aircrafts start at 100 meters altitude.
    - Rest of the aircrafts start at 1000 meters or more, depending on overall aircraft tier.


4 and 5 - Other Team's base and formation.


Edited by CoreCapator, 02 October 2014 - 08:30 PM.


CoreCapator #2 Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:05 AM

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*** RESERVED FOR CONVENIENT Q&A IF PEOPLE SHOW INTEREST :) ***

 

Q: Don't the Attacker aircraft do this already, Bomb the enemy base?

A: To an extent yes, but this is on a much larger scale.  WoWP only has one game mode (Battle against bots doesn't count as it's the same thing except with bots. Same with training) and i think this game deserves to get more than "Team Deathmatch" game mode as it has a lot of potential.

 

Q: If the fixed speed is 200 Km/h or more, wouldn't the rest of the airplanes have problems following the bombers?

A: I'd assume most players would know how to maintain their speed. We have boost and brakes already. Also, the point of fighters and heavy fighters is to intercept and destroy the enemy. Protecting them from behind isn't really effective as bombers can be shot from ANY angle. They're big and chunky.

 

Q: Wouldn't the altitude be a problem for certain tiers?

A: Nope! The altitude at which both teams start would be decided by overall player controlled aircraft's maximum effective altitude. If we have an aircraft whose max effective altitude is, say 1500 meters, while others are at 2500 meters, everyone would spawn at 1200 meters along with the bombers. Again this is just an example. GAA's altitude would be ignored in this calculation.

 

Q: Why do you call it "Original Variant"?

A: Because there are three other variants of this game mode that I haven't mentioned yet:

 

The "Clan Wars" variant would have player-controlled bombers, once they get introduced into the game.

 

The second variant is "vs Bots" variant where other team is replaced by bots whose difficulty scales with player team's Win/Lose ratio.

 

The third and final variant is the "Wave" variant, where Player-controlled team must defeat waves upon waves of enemy bots before they reach and bomb the targets. These waves would consist of maybe 5 aircraft, and would appear every minute. This mode would be for advanced players and could count as an endurance round.


Edited by CoreCapator, 05 October 2014 - 12:52 AM.


Wolfman192 #3 Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:49 AM

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Hi CoreCapator,

 

A few points.

 

"Depending on tier, bombers would have between 1000 and 10,000 Health points each"

This sounds way too high for me, a Tier I fighter would be hard pressed to make a dent in a 1000 point plane whilst dodging other fighters and AA.

 

You make no mention of bombers having defensive armament.  Almost all Heavy bombers during WWII had several machine gun positions for defense, and flew in formation to maximise the defensive capabilities of these gunners.

 

 "In an event that one bomber from one team reaches the base, and two from the other team, battle results in a draw (both bases destroyed regardless)".

I get what you are driving at, but I think this would end in a huge number of draws.  I would suggest rethinking your numbers a bit, so have more bombers (less HP) and making the victory condition more like shoot down x% more bombers than enemy team to win.

 

What kind of height were you thinking the bombers would be at?  Whilst I am not sure, I think WG has made the AA to not fire at targets over a certain height.  Low flying bombers would make no sense historically and so AA mechanics would need to change, especially as AA now shreds Fighters.  Also if the bombers were too high, then certain planes would not be able to intercept them easily due to their low ceiling height.

 

You also do not explain how the bombers get to their targets.  Assuming the targets are on opposite sides of the map, depending on start positions, how close do the 2 bomber formations come to each other.   If they have set height speed and routes, then doesn't that remove the element of spotting, as everyone will know after a couple of games EXACTLY where the enemy bombers will be at any point in the match.

 

I do not mean to sound negative and I do like the basic idea and congratulate you on the hard work you have put into this idea.  I just feel there are a few holes that need filling first :honoring:.

 

Regards

Wolfman192

 



CoreCapator #4 Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:07 PM

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View PostWolfman192, on 01 October 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Hi CoreCapator,

 

A few points.

 

"Depending on tier, bombers would have between 1000 and 10,000 Health points each"

This sounds way too high for me, a Tier I fighter would be hard pressed to make a dent in a 1000 point plane whilst dodging other fighters and AA.

For a single fighter, yes it sounds a lot! For a bunch of them, it should not be a problem. The number of bombers spawned + their HP would depend on the amount players in the said battle and the team's overall aircraft tier.

 

You make no mention of bombers having defensive armament.  Almost all Heavy bombers during WWII had several machine gun positions for defense, and flew in formation to maximise the defensive capabilities of these gunners.

Yes, the bombers would utilize their turrets to defend themselves.

 

 "In an event that one bomber from one team reaches the base, and two from the other team, battle results in a draw (both bases destroyed regardless)".

I get what you are driving at, but I think this would end in a huge number of draws.  I would suggest rethinking your numbers a bit, so have more bombers (less HP) and making the victory condition more like shoot down x% more bombers than enemy team to win.

Yeah, something like this could be used in case that this occurs, I agree!

 

What kind of height were you thinking the bombers would be at?  Whilst I am not sure, I think WG has made the AA to not fire at targets over a certain height.  Low flying bombers would make no sense historically and so AA mechanics would need to change, especially as AA now shreds Fighters.  Also if the bombers were too high, then certain planes would not be able to intercept them easily due to their low ceiling height.

I'm not sure about the height but it would have to be something optimal for each overall tier. As this is a special game mode (I mentioned that AA would have higher chance to fire on the bombers than on other aircrafts in this mode) the AAs would behave differently.

 

 

You also do not explain how the bombers get to their targets.  Assuming the targets are on opposite sides of the map, depending on start positions, how close do the 2 bomber formations come to each other.   If they have set height speed and routes, then doesn't that remove the element of spotting, as everyone will know after a couple of games EXACTLY where the enemy bombers will be at any point in the match.

There would be more formation types than just a straight line like shown in the scheme. Bombers wouldn't fly in a straight line if attacked and would try to move away.

 

I do not mean to sound negative and I do like the basic idea and congratulate you on the hard work you have put into this idea.  I just feel there are a few holes that need filling first :honoring:.

No problem! Thanks for pointing them out :)

 

Regards

Wolfman192

 

 



Blondito #5 Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:25 PM

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I like this premise for a new mode very much.I know people will find things not right with it as it is but I commend the effort put into it by CoreCapator and I suppose the whole point of it being here is to engage our community to fine tune the idea.Well done Core. :honoring:

Et_Lanatus_baro #6 Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:23 PM

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+1 from me Core, The idea is very appealing to me as it is definately a more team based game which will help teach lesser players the essence of teamplay so thats a massive plus, Yes there are holes in how it would work but with this great community I'm pretty sure if we all put our heads together we can make this work, also the starting position of bombers surely we could just have them randomly starting on a side of a map to make it a bit more difficult for the enemy to know they starting from.

 

Come on people this game needs new modes and this is definately a point in the right direction.


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Marine361y #7 Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:17 PM

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+1 from me as well core, it looks as though you've spent a lot of time working out this game mode. Which is more than WG do, WG give this guy a job as he has very good ideas, unlike the rest of the trained chimps you employ:facepalm:

 

 

 

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Edited by Marine361y, 02 October 2014 - 02:20 PM.

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CoreCapator #8 Posted 02 October 2014 - 06:00 PM

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Thanks for all the support guys! Let's hope WG dev team sees this and posts their opinion!

zed22 #9 Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:13 PM

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- i think instead of using AA gun - using flak will be better. only at low tier AA would be good - not high tier.

 

Block Quote

1. Supremacy Meter - this indicates how close the bombers are to the enemy's base and the AA field. The indicator moves at the same speed as the bombers, which is a Fixed speed of, say, 200 Km/h.

 

- the speed of  fix 200 km/h maybe work at low tier but not tier - the speed of bomber be calculate like this to be balance ( not so fast for low tier that can't keep up with them  and not so slow for high tier that they can pass like bomber stop in air.

speed of max tier in game - 2 * (8/10 )  = speed of bomber.

 

Block Quote

 

What kind of height were you thinking the bombers would be at?  Whilst I am not sure, I think WG has made the AA to not fire at targets over a certain height.  Low flying bombers would make no sense historically and so AA mechanics would need to change, especially as AA now shreds Fighters.  Also if the bombers were too high, then certain planes would not be able to intercept them easily due to their low ceiling height.

I'm not sure about the height but it would have to be something optimal for each overall tier. As this is a special game mode (I mentioned that AA would have higher chance to fire on the bombers than on other aircrafts in this mode) the AAs would behave differently.

 

the altitude will be big problem for this mod because of if it's going uper altitude of jp they will just look at the result of battle up and wasting time. as of now GAA will mostly only face each other in this mod because of importance of bomber.

 

beside guys who carry bomb in this mod will have problem, what will new class will do in this mod?( i mean multirole)

Block Quote

2. Battle Overview
    - As seen on the scheme, Enemy base is surrounded by Anti-Aircraft field. In this game mode, AA would have 70% chance to shoot at the bombers, and 30% to shoot at other planes.
    - Depending on tier, bombers would have between 1000 and 10,000 Health points each.
    - 3 Bombers can survive the AA field at 100% if all 3 bomber's health is at least at 80% which would be highly unlikely to occur.
    - 2 Bombers can survive the AA field at 80% if all 2 bomber's health is at 90%+ which is again highly unlikely to occur.
    - 1 Bomber cannot survive the AA field even if at full health if the AA field strength is higher than 45%.

    - The more of your bombers reach enemy's base, the higher the XP reward to keep the players focused on destroying the bombers and protecting them.

    - A fancy cinematic would play depending on how many bombers reach and bomb the base.

 

i'm more happy to see flak could do rng and one shoot/heavy damage the guys who keep going  to enemy base than stopping enemy on their tail ( also enemy side have same condition and would be FF by ally flak :glasses:)

 

 

- i the map that will be use in this mod will be like this ( if we use existing map )

+ map of low tier woun't be use

+ map of middle tier will be use for low tier in this mod

+ map of high tier will be use for mid tier

+ new very big map will be use for high tier.

i don't think no one want to seeing  bomber of both group pass each other from like 300-1000 m. or spot each other so fast before they take the good position.

 

-separate ai bomber and player from start point  and force  player to find bomber.( not knowing from where side they will come ) also this way there is a way for guys who want action going after unprotected enemy bomber before  other side come to support them and force bomber turn the way and going long way for giving his bomber more chance to destroy base before them.( support both defender and aggressive player )

 

- should i speak about the mechanic they should add for this mod :trollface:?

 

- last thing: this will destroy my dream of having bomber in game ( you can ignore this one :tongue:)

 

 

 

 


Edited by zed22, 02 October 2014 - 07:14 PM.


_Stealth_Hunter_ #10 Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:41 PM

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View Postzed22, on 02 October 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

- I think instead of using AA gun - using flak will be better.


Flak are AA guns, Flak is just the German acronym for Flugabwehrkanone which means AA gun.

The current in-game AA already "levels" with the players becoming stronger every Tier, so it should be sufficient. Maybe special high caliber AA guns that do not target players, but could seriously damage NPC bombers can be introduced as priority targets for the GAAs of both teams.


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zed22 #11 Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:16 PM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 02 October 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:


Flak are AA guns, Flak is just the German acronym for Flugabwehrkanone which means AA gun.

The current in-game AA already "levels" with the players becoming stronger every Tier, so it should be sufficient. Maybe special high caliber AA guns that do not target players, but could seriously damage NPC bombers can be introduced as priority targets for the GAAs of both teams.

 

really ?!?!?th_101.gif

 

update:

 

ops  you are right - mistake in translating make this mistake for me ( sadly mostly flak  that transfer is large caliber and aa gun was small caliber and this way refer to make:facepalm:)

should read more about it to understand the class and mach to yours.

 

Block Quote

 

The current in-game AA already "levels" with the players becoming stronger every Tier, so it should be sufficient. Maybe special high caliber AA guns that do not target players, but could seriously damage NPC bombers can be introduced as priority targets for the GAAs of both teams.

 

i want to say this:great:

thanks a lot

 


Edited by zed22, 02 October 2014 - 08:18 PM.


CoreCapator #12 Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:25 PM

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View Postzed22, on 02 October 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

- i think instead of using AA gun - using flak will be better. only at low tier AA would be good - not high tier.

 

 

- the speed of  fix 200 km/h maybe work at low tier but not tier - the speed of bomber be calculate like this to be balance ( not so fast for low tier that can't keep up with them  and not so slow for high tier that they can pass like bomber stop in air.

speed of max tier in game - 2 * (8/10 )  = speed of bomber.

 

I don't think bomber speed could be an issue. Your fighters are supposed to intercept enemy bombers and shoot them down after all. Other than that, players already know how to slow their airplane down should they wish to protect their own bombers instead.

 

the altitude will be big problem for this mod because of if it's going uper altitude of jp they will just look at the result of battle up and wasting time. as of now GAA will mostly only face each other in this mod because of importance of bomber.

 

I don't see how altitude would be a problem in this mode at all. Altitude depends on overall airplane tier in the group and for example, let's say that All planes in one team's max altitude is 1000 meters, but someone is flying an aircraft whose max altitude is 800, bombers would spawn at 700 meters. GAA would face AA + other ground enemies as well as other GAAs and as usual, the infamous "IL Hunters" that will ignore their role and go shoot some ILs.

 

beside guys who carry bomb in this mod will have problem, what will new class will do in this mod?( i mean multirole)

 

Bombs can be dropped from any altitude.

i'm more happy to see flak could do rng and one shoot/heavy damage the guys who keep going  to enemy base than stopping enemy on their tail ( also enemy side have same condition and would be FF by ally flak :glasses:)

AAs would shoot everyone, just that the priority would be the bombers as they would be in a real life scenario.

 

- i the map that will be use in this mod will be like this ( if we use existing map )

+ map of low tier woun't be use

+ map of middle tier will be use for low tier in this mod

+ map of high tier will be use for mid tier

+ new very big map will be use for high tier.

i don't think no one want to seeing  bomber of both group pass each other from like 300-1000 m. or spot each other so fast before they take the good position.

 

-separate ai bomber and player from start point  and force  player to find bomber.( not knowing from where side they will come ) also this way there is a way for guys who want action going after unprotected enemy bomber before  other side come to support them and force bomber turn the way and going long way for giving his bomber more chance to destroy base before them.( support both defender and aggressive player )

 

- should i speak about the mechanic they should add for this mod :trollface:?

 

- last thing: this will destroy my dream of having bomber in game ( you can ignore this one :tongue:)

This is the original variant. "Clan Wars" variant would be available when bombers get introduced to players. Your victory would depend on your clan member's bomber-flying skills and reliability :)

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by CoreCapator, 02 October 2014 - 08:32 PM.


_Stealth_Hunter_ #13 Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:31 PM

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I'd argue you could have the bombers fly at a higher altitude, as most low altitude fighters can still climb up above their service ceiling with relative ease, though it negatively affects their performance and would relegate them to the role of plinking at the bombers instead of attacking enemy fighters.

There's also the niche for low altitude fighters to protect the team's GAA or intercept the enemy GAA to ensure protection of the team's AA emplacements which would then aid in the destruction of bombers.

Edited by _Stealth_Hunter_, 02 October 2014 - 08:31 PM.

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CoreCapator #14 Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:34 PM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 02 October 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

I'd argue you could have the bombers fly at a higher altitude, as most low altitude fighters can still climb up above their service ceiling with relative ease, though it negatively affects their performance and would relegate them to the role of plinking at the bombers instead of attacking enemy fighters.

There's also the niche for low altitude fighters to protect the team's GAA or intercept the enemy GAA to ensure protection of the team's AA emplacements which would then aid in the destruction of bombers.

 

The altitude at which both teams start would be decided by overall player controlled aircraft's maximum effective altitude. If we have an aircraft whose max effective altitude is, say 1500 meters, while others are at 2500 meters, everyone would spawn at 1200 meters along with the bombers. Again this is just an example. GAA's altitude would be ignored in this calculation.

Edited by CoreCapator, 02 October 2014 - 08:39 PM.


zed22 #15 Posted 02 October 2014 - 09:58 PM

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Block Quote

I don't think bomber speed could be an issue. Your fighters are supposed to intercept enemy bombers and shoot them down after all. Other than that, players already know how to slow their airplane down should they wish to protect their own bombers instead.

 

sorry - i  can't find better way for showing you the problem i see with speed.:hiding:

 

ask someone to take TSh-2 and behave like a bomber

then try some plane from some other tier ( like a6m1 from tier 4, a6m4 from tier 6 and j7w1 - or worse ME 262 ) and escort him for 2-3 min like you are in formation near bomber or staying in high altitude and see what will you do to try staying with them... ( what defender will do)

next time change TSh-2 to something with more speed like BF110 E and try again...

you will feel the difference .

also change side and try attack them and turn around ( from different angle and altitude)

it's like shooting balloon in 200 km/s with BSh-2 and what really happen in reality in ww2 with BF 110 E ( for attacker )

Block Quote

 

Bombs can be dropped from any altitude.

 yep

but player decide where will they drop them+ also don't want to see they steal the target from GAA or worse hit them from up.

if there could be some target in way that wasn't important ( not giving xp or point - but only for paying the bomb they have or some flak in random plce ) it can solve the problem.

+

the way GAA should go also be short to arive before bomber coming to enemy base to have time and destroy enemy large caliber AA

 

 

 


Edited by zed22, 02 October 2014 - 10:04 PM.


CoreCapator #16 Posted 05 October 2014 - 12:45 AM

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View Postzed22, on 02 October 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

 

sorry - i  can't find better way for showing you the problem i see with speed.:hiding:

 

ask someone to take TSh-2 and behave like a bomber

then try some plane from some other tier ( like a6m1 from tier 4, a6m4 from tier 6 and j7w1 - or worse ME 262 ) and escort him for 2-3 min like you are in formation near bomber or staying in high altitude and see what will you do to try staying with them... ( what defender will do)

next time change TSh-2 to something with more speed like BF110 E and try again...

you will feel the difference .

also change side and try attack them and turn around ( from different angle and altitude)

it's like shooting balloon in 200 km/s with BSh-2 and what really happen in reality in ww2 with BF 110 E ( for attacker )

 yep

but player decide where will they drop them+ also don't want to see they steal the target from GAA or worse hit them from up.

if there could be some target in way that wasn't important ( not giving xp or point - but only for paying the bomb they have or some flak in random plce ) it can solve the problem.

+

the way GAA should go also be short to arive before bomber coming to enemy base to have time and destroy enemy large caliber AA

 

 

 

ROLES

Heavy Fighters - Intercept and destroy enemy bombers and fighters OR assist attackers to reduce Enemy AA field strength
Light Fighters - Intercept and destroy enemy bombers and fighters

Attacker - Reduce enemy AA strength

 

You're not supposed to stick behind the bombers in this game mode. That is the worst way to protect them. Speed is not a problem at all, everyone knows how to maintain low speed IF they decide to do what you're so worried about.



arybow #17 Posted 05 October 2014 - 02:17 PM

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All the ideas and concepts to make a more diversified game with different types of battles with differents goals are ,to my view ,welcome !

 

Nice CoreCapator .

 

 



zed22 #18 Posted 06 October 2014 - 06:56 PM

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View PostCoreCapator, on 05 October 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

ROLES

Heavy Fighters - Intercept and destroy enemy bombers and fighters OR assist attackers to reduce Enemy AA field strength
Light Fighters - Intercept and destroy enemy bombers and fighters

Attacker - Reduce enemy AA strength

 

You're not supposed to stick behind the bombers in this game mode. That is the worst way to protect them. Speed is not a problem at all, everyone knows how to maintain low speed IF they decide to do what you're so worried about.

 

i'm more happy to see the something like d-day mod with this speed by moving target on grand/ship  in high tier than seeing bomber moving like a balloon.:unsure:

 

i think i should better be out of this before it turn to wrong way - but still support the your idea for new mod:honoring:

 

 


Edited by zed22, 06 October 2014 - 08:50 PM.


CoreCapator #19 Posted 13 October 2014 - 06:40 AM

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View Postzed22, on 06 October 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

 

i'm more happy to see the something like d-day mod with this speed by moving target on grand/ship  in high tier than seeing bomber moving like a balloon.:unsure:

 

i think i should better be out of this before it turn to wrong way - but still support the your idea for new mod:honoring:

 

 

 

If this gets implemented, you'll see that your fears wouldn't exist. If you need a better image of how this would work, check 3dmark03's wings of fury demo, pretty neat!

 

Also, updated Q&A.

 

 

 







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