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The Return Of A Closed Beta Tester

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Mstraat #1 Posted 15 March 2015 - 08:47 PM

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Acknowledged pilots and developers,

 

I have returned from the earth where my origins lie, to join my flying brethren flying high in the sky. Little do they know or see, but this bird had aces up its sleeve. A screaming eagle loud and clear, but neither the creating gods hear. Forgotten by their joy or was it pride, this terror of the sky never lied. What a grace and what a claws, this bird did it all. Joyfully and happily in the skies, but fall overtook summer this time. Then winter was in prospect, this eagle came to mind. Descending from high to his brethren low, he mingled himself once and perhaps for all in lying low. Was this it this eagle ace thought, to be doomed in a flying ship with no course at all?

 

My own written poem it is, or i think it is, described my relation with this game. Once again i return as a closed beta tester with 600+ games to this game. The first time i returned it was after 5 months to see any improvement would have made their way to the game. I was disappointed, and now, after 1 year i have returned once again to give my marks on this game.

 

It is as ever a flying circus of people flying criss cross in the air with little orchestra. Perhaps as it meant to be but it is more luck and a little bit of skill than tactics or strategy that a team wins. You cannot fight 4-10 enemies at once. Also it is still difficult to shake off any enemy of your 6 unless you are in a exceptional maneuverable plane. And the advice to shake of a more maneuverable plane of your back by 'outrunning' them with your speed is still given. You CANNOT evade bullets from the rear. Now, If i could perform a manoeuvre to shake him of and fight him but still lose to him, that's when i can call it a fair fight. Then i lost due his skill, fair and straight how it is meant to be and how it really was in real life. Not due game mechanics and unbalanced aircraft. And as ever the controls never work in your favor neither does the camera.

 

here is a bit of my older posts, where i highlighted some problems of that time:

Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:24 PM

I started to play this game while it was in Betá. I worked all the way up american tier 8 carrier plane (F2G), a nice plane but due lack of game development and the several issues in the game I decided to leave and come back when it was better developed. 
during the Betá version i encountered several problems in the game: Difficulties in dodging enemy planes, getting planes of your 6 and the overall control's and camera view made these problems even worse.

 

Since yesterday I returned to this community and still I see none to little improvement. Despite the better graphics and extended plane branches, the gameplay stays unfriendly to new players. They have difficulties avoiding getting shot down, this is then mainly due the advice the developers give. The advice is when fighting a more maneuverable plane is to outrun them, in reality this means death. The plane is still (or gets) on your 6 and by the time you are out of his range you are already death. When fighting faster planes but less maneuverable is of course getting between their 8-4 at their back, the only valid advice. The developers also recommend to start with high altitude attacks, this is merely effective especially in the beginning of the game. to gain a high altitude, you need speed and on your way to the top you will lose speed. With as result that the enemy planes that are below you (about 300-600 meters) see you as a sitting duck. With as consequence that you will lose often 2/3 of your HP. Of course high altitude attacks have their advantage when there aren't enemy planes near your back and you can chase off enemies at your friendlies 6.

These problems where in the Betá also, and are still present. In the game you are still on your own, don't count on your team to save you. The lack of team support accumulate the problems above, and of course i don't mean that everyone must play together and discuss battle tactics in the 30 seconds starting time. Its just that you try to shoot as many planes [edited]possible before you get wrecked. This encouraged brainless play and people not giving a damn if they fly into you. If you compare this to World of Tanks, that game is more user friendly (in game) than World of Warplanes. This is because WOT has hills, rocks and houses. this encourages tactical approach, while in the  high skies, players are more tend to zigzag to do some manoeuvres without knowing it was a good idea. In air collisions are a good example of this.

 

This game will never be a big success if there isn't big improvement in the gameplay (controls especially the mouse option) and camera view. The last one has mainly to do with loopings, rolls and other evasive manoevres. A lot of money will be utterly wasted if there isn't improvement. 

 

I suggest the following:
Special manoeuvres depending on the skill of the pilot or with perks (such as evasive loopings etc.) Something like when you press button 2 your plane does a roll and can only be reused after 20 secs.
Tier restriction, don't mingle tier 3 with tier 5, due the low level of player skill in this game i suggest that it tier 3 plays only with tier 3 same for the others except tier 8-10.
Grouping classes together, for example: group all attack aircraft together with the fighters in strategic/defensive position above or around the attack planes at the start of the game.
Less expensive planes, I noticed this more than ever. the income generated by planes both income and experience are pretty low. Combined with the gameplay problems makes it hard to reach tier 8. The argument use gold or buy a premium plane are invalid because people will spend money on world of tanks, not on world of warplanes (not yet ;) )

Better communication interface, such as WOT when pressing the Z button.

 

I would like to have feedback on the comments, you can find me in WOT.

 

Greetings,

 

Max

 

-------------

Thats what a told them a year ago, but still the same situation.

 

Now, i don't want to be all negative but i suggest the following emergency changes to the game to keep the current community here:
Make everything more profitable and affordable. Earning credits, experience and lower the prices on all planes. You have to be a complete donkey to spent money now on this game in this state.
Put a new development team on this game.
Simplify the garage.
Don't develop the game further that only a computer that has the capability to guide a rocket mars can play this game.
Add evasive hotkeys, to make battles more competitive. if you still lose, it was due your own judgement of the situation.

 

Well, i think im going to post more in the near future, feel free to comment, especially on my opening.

 

Max

 



jeff_peters #2 Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:40 PM

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Evasive maneuvers with hotkeys had been stupid suggestion then and still is. Do you also want a hotkey for shooting an enemy down?

 

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_Stealth_Hunter_ #3 Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:44 PM

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Next step...

 

PRESS X TO WIN


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Mstraat #4 Posted 16 March 2015 - 08:03 AM

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View Postjeff_peters, on 15 March 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

Evasive maneuvers with hotkeys had been stupid suggestion then and still is. Do you also want a hotkey for shooting an enemy down?

 

Perhaps it is, it doesn't have to be a fully evasive manoeuvre, not really super advanced. Its more like that the likely hood of such a manoeuvre will succeed. I think that the left mouse button is sufficient for firing.

jakub_czyli_ja #5 Posted 16 March 2015 - 08:23 AM

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View PostMstraat, on 16 March 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Perhaps it is, it doesn't have to be a fully evasive manoeuvre, not really super advanced. Its more like that the likely hood of such a manoeuvre will succeed. I think that the left mouse button is sufficient for firing.

Maybe if you wouldn't call it 'evasive maneuver' it would be better understandable.

I think you should name it 'magical shield'.

 

After over 600 battles in beta, you should have at least slight knowledge about energy fighting and combat maneuvers (like using altitude, yoyo and stuff), and thus you should have advantage over totally unexperienced pilots.

Otherwise it's not the game's fault, because then you are at the bottom line, and whatever would be applied to the game to help you, would also help your opponents, making them equally hard to defeat as they are now.



Mstraat #6 Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:50 AM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 16 March 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Maybe if you wouldn't call it 'evasive maneuver' it would be better understandable.

I think you should name it 'magical shield'.

 

After over 600 battles in beta, you should have at least slight knowledge about energy fighting and combat maneuvers (like using altitude, yoyo and stuff), and thus you should have advantage over totally unexperienced pilots.

Otherwise it's not the game's fault, because then you are at the bottom line, and whatever would be applied to the game to help you, would also help your opponents, making them equally hard to defeat as they are now.

 

I know, but do the problems (or issues) that i highlight make this game very hard for new players due the very steep (for most players) learning curve? I hope we both agree that we need more newcomers to keep this game alive?

_Stealth_Hunter_ #7 Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:07 AM

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How about making it easier for new players by providing more in-depth tutorials instead of trying to dumb the game down to the level of a Point&Click?

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Mstraat #8 Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:51 AM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 16 March 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

How about making it easier for new players by providing more in-depth tutorials instead of trying to dumb the game down to the level of a Point&Click?

 

that would be superb, now most players have to get info about planes on other websites. Info such as: what are the distinctions of each branch? That will give most players more sense of direction and not brainless grinding and a better in game attitude instead of 'i don't care'.

 

But i would also increase profitability of xp and credits by 10-15% because the avarage game earnings are avarage, very avarage. 

More information on dodging attacks and how to get a fighter off your six. When you are faster but cant turn as quick as he can, you are doomed. Despite that you are faster you will never be able to out fly those bullets losing at least 1/3 of your HP. Neither can you rely on your team to help you out. This is my major issue with the game. Dodging is merely effective unless your plane is both faster and can turn quicker, then you dont need high HP or good guns. Thats why i suggest some sort of hotkey system, at least try it! Such as half a looping or a corkscrew, if you still lose after that you can say it was a fair and straight fight GG. And hey, if it sucks, then we gonna try something else. I've comeback to make something of this game and want I to get better and better at it. But it is clear that we cannot continue to fly in this direction. 

 

Make a video on wingman tactics: Stay about 300 meters behind your wingman so that you can get behind the 6 of the possible enemies that he engages. That kind of stuff.

Better communication interface: like the Z button in world of tanks.



_Stealth_Hunter_ #9 Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:02 AM

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If you want everything to be handled via clicking keys, why play a flight game? Might as well play a MOBA or your typical grindy Korean MMO that comes down to who clicks faster.

 

It's not hard to do a damn roll that will let you avoid 90% of shots, in most cases even all of them, since many players can't aim at all. All you need is a flick of the wrist and a little moving of your mouse.

It's really not that hard, unless you had a lobotomy recently...


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Mstraat #10 Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:51 AM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 16 March 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

If you want everything to be handled via clicking keys, why play a flight game? Might as well play a MOBA or your typical grindy Korean MMO that comes down to who clicks faster.

 

It's not hard to do a damn roll that will let you avoid 90% of shots, in most cases even all of them, since many players can't aim at all. All you need is a flick of the wrist and a little moving of your mouse.

It's really not that hard, unless you had a lobotomy recently...

 

1. i never said that i want everything to be handled through keys, only 1 or 2 would be optional and i think should be tested. But what do you think of this: Design your own maneuver with 1 key to pull it of? Gives it more individualistic touch. Or no hot keys at all and just a solid flight training school.

3. MOBA? Typical grindy Korean MMO? no idea what you are talking about.
4. it is not hard to perform a roll indeed, it were just examples. A maneuver that i regularly use to, but i am able to see it through most players and still give them a nasty barrage of bullets, that why i suggest this. 

5. "It's really not that hard, unless you had a lobotomy recently... " So, you are suggesting the game is fine as it is now? Well, i think that the results speak for themselves. Not many people like it, i hope you noticed that, and what we must do is being more creative and finding different and better ways for this game. It is fine as it is will simply not suffice. In this area WG is currently getting murdered by WarThunder. WG will not shut this game down because then you surrender to your competition and make them stronger by giving them a share of this market. No business in this sector can allow this to happen, you must compete. Warthunder is already giving them a hard time with GroundForces alone, and they are going to introduce ships to. But WarGaming's WoT is still a league ahead of that game, it is really good. Overall, competition is good for the end users, but with a 'it is fine as it is' mentality you are wasting your time here because then nothing will happen.



jeff_peters #11 Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:59 AM

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So, you think that having maneuvers on hotkeys will make this game competitive with WartHunter? Why? There are no hotkeys there. If anything, the constant dumbing down to cater god-knows-what-kind-of-audience has hurt WoWP immensely. And your suggestion falls into the same category.


Edited by jeff_peters, 16 March 2015 - 12:01 PM.

 

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_Stealth_Hunter_ #12 Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:13 PM

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If anything, using a hotkey for an instant evasive maneuver will just make it even easier to shoot down people.

The hotkey is going to set your plane on a pre-determined evasive course and everyone worth their salt will have that figured out in a day or two, which just means free kills for those people while they keep evading manually themselves.

Unless you want to couple the evasive hotkey with "10 seconds of invincibility" or something similar, it's just going to turn inexperienced players into sitting ducks.

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Mstraat #13 Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:17 PM

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View Postjeff_peters, on 16 March 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

So, you think that having maneuvers on hotkeys will make this game competitive with WartHunter? Why? There are no hotkeys there. If anything, the constant dumbing down to cater god-knows-what-kind-of-audience has hurt WoWP immensely. And your suggestion falls into the same category.

 

What im suggesting is that we all come up with creative or better ideas for this game. Have any? i will not categorize your suggestions it that i promise you. 
I think that creating your own designed maneuver linked to a hotkey could improve the game, that's all. Or a solid flight acedemy, didn't read any comments on that one. And like i pointed out, staying in this direction doesn't help the game either, and perhaps neither my comments does, but hey i try. Got the bottom line?

Mstraat #14 Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:21 PM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 16 March 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

If anything, using a hotkey for an instant evasive maneuver will just make it even easier to shoot down people.

The hotkey is going to set your plane on a pre-determined evasive course and everyone worth their salt will have that figured out in a day or two, which just means free kills for those people while they keep evading manually themselves.

Unless you want to couple the evasive hotkey with "10 seconds of invincibility" or something similar, it's just going to turn inexperienced players into sitting ducks.

 

Good point. What about, as a long term solution, a better flight academy including better bots? And as short term to ease the players a small increase in credits, and lower costs for higher tier planes? (of course only for the short term)

jeff_peters #15 Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:29 PM

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View PostMstraat, on 16 March 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

 

What im suggesting is that we all come up with creative or better ideas for this game. Have any? i will not categorize your suggestions it that i promise you. 
I think that creating your own designed maneuver linked to a hotkey could improve the game, that's all. Or a solid flight acedemy, didn't read any comments on that one. And like i pointed out, staying in this direction doesn't help the game either, and perhaps neither my comments does, but hey i try. Got the bottom line?

 

Sure I do.

 

What Makes a Fun Flight Game in 5 Minutes, by jeffy boy:

 

1) a flight model that is believable and fun

- flight games first and foremost have to give you the awesome feeling that you are in the air, flying a plane that has clear limitations - if you do stupid sh*t you end up digging earth, if you learn proper ways you are able to pull off amazing stuff - not in WoWP

 

2) a damage model that is believable and fun

- planes can be both tough and fragile and they should be both in the right situations, surviving 20 hits of 37mm gun? Please. - Also not in WoWP

 

WoWP fails badly in the basics which make a flight game good. WT nailed those two but sucks in everything else. Take your pick.


 

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Mstraat #16 Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:43 PM

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View Postjeff_peters, on 16 March 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

 

Sure I do.

 

What Makes a Fun Flight Game in 5 Minutes, by jeffy boy:

 

1) a flight model that is believable and fun

- flight games first and foremost have to give you the awesome feeling that you are in the air, flying a plane that has clear limitations - if you do stupid sh*t you end up digging earth, if you learn proper ways you are able to pull off amazing stuff - not in WoWP

 

2) a damage model that is believable and fun

- planes can be both tough and fragile and they should be both in the right situations, surviving 20 hits of 37mm gun? Please. - Also not in WoWP

 

WoWP fails badly in the basics which make a flight game good. WT nailed those two but sucks in everything else. Take your pick.

 

Thanks jeff_peters

 

I agree that the game has to be more realistic in the good aspects that you just highlighted. And as you point out, that if you do stupid sh*t you end up digging earth, unless you learn proper ways. I think this is one of the critical aspects in this game. How about a solid flight acedemy? how could we develop such a concept and what shape should it have? i think that giving a proper education in flying to all who play and are going to play the game in the future can only help.

 

And i would like your comments on this, the origins or trash talk about this game.

I still remember that World of Warplanes drew its audience from the success of World of Tanks. That audience had the same (unrealistic) expectations, world of tanks is a less advanced on both tactical and strategic levels. You can hide behind a rock, go hull down, camp, brawl, use camo net etc. 
This game was from the beginning more complex due the lack of strategic points for aircraft. it relied solely on out smarting your opponents and be cunning in your maneuvers. In world of tanks it was easier due the terrain, but in this game everything happens in the skies with almost unlimited movement restrictions resulting in more complexity for a lot of players. This caused a some sort of snowball effect with trash talk about this game. Players just couldn't cope with it and since then i didn't think that WoWP ever found a good defined audience after all that.



AnuSuaraj #17 Posted 17 March 2015 - 11:34 AM

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View PostMstraat, on 15 March 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

Despite the better graphics and extended plane branches, the gameplay stays unfriendly to new players. They have difficulties avoiding getting shot down...

 

Right. So, according to our returned Beta tester new players should be able to WTF-pwn more experienced players in their very first battle. Perhaps an "insta kill the better and more experienced pilot on your six" hotkey is in order here. Too bad inexperienced real life pilots didn't posses such a magical instrument of awesome power. Why they could have just swatted little ol' Bubi Hartmann down with a flip of the switch.

 

View PostMstraat, on 15 March 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

Despite the better graphics and extended plane branches, the gameplay stays unfriendly to new players. They have difficulties avoiding getting shot down, this is then mainly due the advice the developers give. The advice is when fighting a more maneuverable plane is to outrun them, in reality this means death. The plane is still (or gets) on your 6 and by the time you are out of his range you are already death. When fighting faster planes but less maneuverable is of course getting between their 8-4 at their back, the only valid advice. The developers also recommend to start with high altitude attacks, this is merely effective especially in the beginning of the game. to gain a high altitude, you need speed and on your way to the top you will lose speed. With as result that the enemy planes that are below you (about 300-600 meters) see you as a sitting duck. With as consequence that you will lose often 2/3 of your HP. Of course high altitude attacks have their advantage when there aren't enemy planes near your back and you can chase off enemies at your friendlies 6.

 

I'm sorry but this whole paragraph is such nausea inducing BS.  At the moment, taking down agile planes with overpowered BnZ planes (German heavies and fighters + Murican heavies and fighters) is the EASIEST freaking thing in the game.

 

So, if you can't pull it off I can only suggest that you re-return to whatever you were playing on your Android infested tablet.

 

View PostMstraat, on 16 March 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

I still remember that World of Warplanes drew its audience from the success of World of Tanks. That audience had the same (unrealistic) expectations, world of tanks is a less advanced on both tactical and strategic levels. You can hide behind a rock, go hull down, camp, brawl, use camo net etc. 

 

No, no, and no. World of tanks is a layered game. It offers something for the inexperienced and experienced alike. But bad players still lose to good players and good players lose to great players. The tank hardly matters much, and it definitely doesn't matter more than the player like it does in WoWP at times.

 

Strategically and tactically WoT is also a superior game to WoWP where the most effective strategy as of yet is to push the boost button really hard.

 

Also, WoT doesn't have ghost tanks and aimbot.

 

Good day to you.

 


Edited by AnuSuaraj, 17 March 2015 - 11:35 AM.

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Alrion1704 #18 Posted 17 March 2015 - 12:47 PM

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View Post_Stealth_Hunter_, on 16 March 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

The hotkey is going to set your plane on a pre-determined evasive course and everyone worth their salt will have that figured out in a day or two, which just means free kills for those people while they keep evading manually themselves.

Unless you want to couple the evasive hotkey with "10 seconds of invincibility" or something similar, it's just going to turn inexperienced players into sitting ducks.

 

my thoughts
Spoiler

 


Bhuvaneswari #19 Posted 17 March 2015 - 09:56 PM

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i said this in closed beta and ill say it again. this game will never be noob freindly, you either learn to fly and want to learn or you will stop playing.

 

its was always going to have a small user base because wowp does actually require some thought and skill.

 

if everybody got the hang of it straight away then we would all be fighter pilots in real life...and we are not


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Mstraat #20 Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:43 PM

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View PostAnuSuaraj, on 17 March 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

 

Right. So, according to our returned Beta tester new players should be able to WTF-pwn more experienced players in their very first battle. Perhaps an "insta kill the better and more experienced pilot on your six" hotkey is in order here. Too bad inexperienced real life pilots didn't posses such a magical instrument of awesome power. Why they could have just swatted little ol' Bubi Hartmann down with a flip of the switch.

 

 

I'm sorry but this whole paragraph is such nausea inducing BS.  At the moment, taking down agile planes with overpowered BnZ planes (German heavies and fighters + Murican heavies and fighters) is the EASIEST freaking thing in the game.

 

So, if you can't pull it off I can only suggest that you re-return to whatever you were playing on your Android infested tablet.

 

 

No, no, and no. World of tanks is a layered game. It offers something for the inexperienced and experienced alike. But bad players still lose to good players and good players lose to great players. The tank hardly matters much, and it definitely doesn't matter more than the player like it does in WoWP at times.

 

Strategically and tactically WoT is also a superior game to WoWP where the most effective strategy as of yet is to push the boost button really hard.

 

Also, WoT doesn't have ghost tanks and aimbot.

 

Good day to you.

 

 

Dude read my further reactions after i posted this................... could help to give you a idea of what im trying to achieve. No wonder that some players are trashing the community if people like you write such comments. I already dropped the 'hotkey thing' you got any better ideas? I suggest that you read further before brainless commenting, you just missed the whole point. 

 

Oh yeah, I don't have an android tablet kid.

 

Greetings 






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