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kill steals a way round it


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w00lfie #1 Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:43 PM

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i was wondering  if a player can get an assist at  I think might be wrong at  say 20%

I think a person should get  a kill at 60%  of damage to  target plane

I feel bad  at taking a snap shot and getting a kill if said plane has only a few hit points left

I am also pissed when someone does it to me after almost getting killed doing the dirty work

what do  the rest of you think ??



maxram68 #2 Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:21 AM

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My thoughts: It depends entirely on the circumstances, - but in general I don't think there's such a thing a "stealing": it's two _teams_ against eachother.

 

Sometimes, you take the few remaining HP from some unlucky f*cker, where in other situations someone takes the last HP from an enemy you might have been "working" on for a while.

If it happens constantly (somebody does it on purpose, every time), I react on it.

 

If I can see someone needs a kill for f.ex. an Ace, I'll announce my HELP in battle chat - and then either leave the enemy plane with few HP or completely avoid engaging. I generally expect the same if it's the opposite situation.

 

If someone says that he needs the kill to accomplish something, I don't mind staying away - if it's someone I know and/or respect.

 

Bottom line: "Stealing" occurs in a lot of different situations. Unless it's done constantly and on purpose, I would avoid label it as stealing.

 



Leirix #3 Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:44 PM

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You get the kill, when you destroy a plane. In this game, there is no kill stealing, cause a 1 HP left plane is able to kill any plane without a rear gunner.
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fugepilot #4 Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:54 PM

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If you can take out an opposing set of guns from the enemy team then take 'em out is my view.

 

A win is a win!



reverzibilni #5 Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:16 PM

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If i allmost kill a enemy ils and some noob come from behind and kill steal kill,trust me,i am gone kill that noob.

I dont care about rules.


               
    

jakub_czyli_ja #6 Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:57 PM

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View Postfugepilot, on 18 February 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

If you can take out an opposing set of guns from the enemy team then take 'em out is my view.

 

A win is a win!

Apparently you lack wins and prefer somebody else to score frags and to carry you to win.

Some other people may have different approach.


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Cheaterhater #7 Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:13 PM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

Some other people may have different approach.

 

A different approach like... If you think you can't carry your team to victory, you make sure to carry them to a loss by crashing yourself and/or taking out other members of your team? That what you mean?

 

Oh, and fugepilot is right btw. Killstealing doesn't exist. The XP distribution doesn't always make sense for rewarding the killing blow so much, but then again, XP isn't important. Winning is important. This is a team game, so you do whatever you think helps your team the most. Oh, and I know that there are people who don't shoot until they can deal the killing blow to a target. But the thing I care about is not them dealing the killing blow, but them holding back before, because that violates the rule of helping your team. But if you're shooting a plane and another player starts shooting the same plane because there's no better target around and he gets the kill, I don't see a problem at all.


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velkovk19 #8 Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:22 PM

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jakub_czyli_ja #9 Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:50 PM

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View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

A different approach like... If you think you can't carry your team to victory, you make sure to carry them to a loss by crashing yourself and/or taking out other members of your team? That what you mean?

Loss is loss, doesn't matter if I try or not. So if I don't have any mission to score even if battle is lost, there is no reason to play in lost battle.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

Oh, and fugepilot is right btw. Killstealing doesn't exist. The XP distribution doesn't always make sense for rewarding the killing blow so much, but then again, XP isn't important. Winning is important.

And here is the difference. I don't massage my ego by winning, I prefer exp as I'm a hoarder and try to hoard as many planes as possible within as short as possible time. If I'd get an offer of getting 2k exp for each of another 100 battles that every one would be lost, I'd take it in no time.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

This is a team game, so you do whatever you think helps your team the most. Oh, and I know that there are people who don't shoot until they can deal the killing blow to a target. But the thing I care about is not them dealing the killing blow, but them holding back before, because that violates the rule of helping your team. But if you're shooting a plane and another player starts shooting the same plane because there's no better target around and he gets the kill, I don't see a problem at all.

There is no rule of helping the team, and there is no team. There are just bots and bunch of players interested in scoring as much kills as possible. Some in the safest possible way, avoiding being a free frag. Some others are interested in hitting their personal exp maximum, which unfortunately means attacking GT in top tier fighter.

 

And if you are shooting a plane, and other player starts shooting despite there are plenty of enemy planes around, it is kill stealing. Especially if you have a mission for kills.


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Cheaterhater #10 Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:36 PM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

Loss is loss, doesn't matter if I try or not. So if I don't have any mission to score even if battle is lost, there is no reason to play in lost battle.

 

And here is the difference. I don't massage my ego by winning, I prefer exp as I'm a hoarder and try to hoard as many planes as possible within as short as possible time. If I'd get an offer of getting 2k exp for each of another 100 battles that every one would be lost, I'd take it in no time.

 

Ah, so naive. And hypocritical. So you claim the only thing you're playing for is the game economy, not the game itself? You draw all of your "fun" out of high experience numbers showing up and some planes being in your hangar? Did you even think carefully about that before posting it? Like, to see if it makes any sense at all?

 

And you claim not to "massage your ego" by winning, but yet the pure idea of losing a game is so painful for you that you don't even try if there's the slightest chance that it might be lost. You try to justify that with you wanting experience, but let's put it short: I don't believe you. And besides, you "massage your ego", as you put it, by crashing on purpose when you have people in the game who said things that are remotely unkind to you. I've seen that. Wasn't me who said those things, btw, just so no one gets the wrong idea here.

 

And the last part:

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

There is no rule of helping the team, and there is no team. There are just bots and bunch of players interested in scoring as much kills as possible. Some in the safest possible way, avoiding being a free frag. Some others are interested in hitting their personal exp maximum, which unfortunately means attacking GT in top tier fighter.

 

And if you are shooting a plane, and other player starts shooting despite there are plenty of enemy planes around, it is kill stealing. Especially if you have a mission for kills.

 

Yep, you summed up douchebaggery pretty nicely. Not respecting others but only caring about yourself, and so on. That stuff. That others might have missions for kills as well seems to escape your mind. What also escapes your mind is that your incredibly clever tactic only works if very few people do that. And that's usually a signal that it might not be such a good idea to begin with. What makes it rather ironic is that even though, you still think that everyone has the same mindset as you do. Hint: They don't. And the universe doesn't revolve around you, either.


Edited by Cheaterhater, 18 February 2017 - 05:42 PM.

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jakub_czyli_ja #11 Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:13 PM

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View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Ah, so naive. And hypocritical. So you claim the only thing you're playing for is the game economy, not the game itself? You draw all of your "fun" out of high experience numbers showing up and some planes being in your hangar? Did you even think carefully about that before posting it? Like, to see if it makes any sense at all?

I don't care that you can't understand that. I'll win when I'll go through the game.

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

And you claim not to "massage your ego" by winning, but yet the pure idea of losing a game is so painful for you that you don't even try if there's the slightest chance that it might be lost. You try to justify that with you wanting experience, but let's put it short: I don't believe you

Do you know the idea of expected value and income in time?

Expected value of income in lost battle is so low, that there are very few reasons to play. Sometimes a mission, or a possibility to earn some credits with a premium plane retarding on GAA. Not much else.

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

And besides, you "massage your ego", as you put it, by crashing on purpose when you have people in the game who said things that are remotely unkind to you. I've seen that. Wasn't me who said those things, btw, just so no one gets the wrong idea here.

So it looks that I've developed how to be a bit more unkind and it works.

Deal is simple - if you are upset that somebody doesn't want to play with you, don't make him not wanting. I don't care if players want to play with me or not. I'd like them to go the most efficient way to win fast.

Only that they don't.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Yep, you summed up douchebaggery pretty nicely. Not respecting others but only caring about yourself, and so on. That stuff.

Why should I care for others that don't care for others? My time has a value for me.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

That others might have missions for kills as well seems to escape your mind. What also escapes your mind is that your incredibly clever tactic only works if very few people do that. And that's usually a signal that it might not be such a good idea to begin with. What makes it rather ironic is that even though, you still think that everyone has the same mindset as you do.

Unless there is a server-wide mission, there aren't so much missions for kills to make everybody frag hungry. Also in most cases of stealing a frag situation looks like a chasing player is also being chased. And frag stealer attacks the one plane that is low HP instead of attacking the other. Or a big dogfight with several planes from both teams, when suddenly all one team planes attack single low HP enemy.

You are accusing me of not being a teamplayer, looking other way from a big portion of frag steals.

 

And what clever tactics you are talking about? Leaving lost battles? What wouldn't work if everybody would do that? Remember that still there are bots.

 

And the whole discussion started from me stating that there are players with different mindset than "win is a win". So one who thinks that everybody have same mindset is you, because you don't believe me.

 

Win is a win would work in team mode - something like WoT company, stronghold or CW. Only that there is nothing like that in WoWP.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

And the universe doesn't revolve around you, either.

For me it revolves more around me and few people I care than around anybody other.

 

 


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Cheaterhater #12 Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:55 PM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Do you know the idea of expected value and income in time?

Expected value of income in lost battle is so low, that there are very few reasons to play. Sometimes a mission, or a possibility to earn some credits with a premium plane retarding on GAA. Not much else.

 

I don't think you understood the point that I was going to make. See, playing game is something you do in your free time, something that should be done for entertainment (you could also say for fun). But your comments always revolve around getting XP, you make it seem that this is your only goal. And you also do not seem to have a lot of fun in the game, because otherwise you would just play instead of crashing. And XP by itself are worthless if you don't have fun. Thus I cannot really understand your motivation.

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Why should I care for others that don't care for others? My time has a value for me.

 

See, that's what I meant. You assume that others don't care. I'm not denying it's true for some, or even for many. But not for all, thus you're doing all others injustice.

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Unless there is a server-wide mission, there aren't so much missions for kills to make everybody frag hungry. Also in most cases of stealing a frag situation looks like a chasing player is also being chased. And frag stealer attacks the one plane that is low HP instead of attacking the other. Or a big dogfight with several planes from both teams, when suddenly all one team planes attack single low HP enemy.

 

But you don't have such a mission all the time either, and people cannot tell. And you cannot tell if others have such a mission. Having a mission doesn't change how unfair a certain behaviour is.

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

And the whole discussion started from me stating that there are players with different mindset than "win is a win". So one who thinks that everybody have same mindset is you, because you don't believe me.

 

That's not what I meant at all. I was referring to this:

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

There is no rule of helping the team, and there is no team. There are just bots and bunch of players interested in scoring as much kills as possible.

 

And that's just not true. Not everyone just wants to make as many kills as possible. I, for one, try to do whatever leads my team to victory. And of course that involves getting kills, but that's just a way to reach the goal, not the goal itself. And there are situations where it's better not going for the kill, e. g. helping somewhere else instead or trying to survive instead of being greedy. Those things.



jakub_czyli_ja #13 Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:53 PM

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View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

I don't think you understood the point that I was going to make. See, playing game is something you do in your free time, something that should be done for entertainment (you could also say for fun). But your comments always revolve around getting XP, you make it seem that this is your only goal. And you also do not seem to have a lot of fun in the game, because otherwise you would just play instead of crashing. And XP by itself are worthless if you don't have fun. Thus I cannot really understand your motivation.

No exp, but hoarding new planes (through silver and exp) and developing crews. Some longer term and higher level goal than trying to win a 6 minutes battle. And that part gives bigger impulse to my reward system than winning a battle. Winning a battle is just getting the job done, short term goal as many around.

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

See, that's what I meant. You assume that others don't care. I'm not denying it's true for some, or even for many. But not for all, thus you're doing all others injustice.

I look what they do.

If I see top tier plane not being GAA that does GT, it's quite obvious that it either can't play otherwise or doesn't care. At tier VI for example one could expect some level of competence, so trying to carry such players would be counterproductive, because they will keep their playstyle.

Another kind are campers awaiting till 3/4th of the team are dead to just pick rest of enemy team.

 

Other kind of battles are battles lost by MM - a top tier HF or a flight countered by corresponding number of bots for example.

 

I'm making the inevitable faster. Sometimes I judge wrong and team wins, then I was useless anyway. Cases that battles were lost by an edge are extremely rare, and in such case it's a bad luck. As many.

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

But you don't have such a mission all the time either, and people cannot tell. And you cannot tell if others have such a mission. Having a mission doesn't change how unfair a certain behaviour is.
The one behavior to kill a plane with low HP instead of one chasing a plane from the team?

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

And that's just not true. Not everyone just wants to make as many kills as possible. I, for one, try to do whatever leads my team to victory. And of course that involves getting kills, but that's just a way to reach the goal, not the goal itself.

Well, those who are stealing kills seem to be focused on kills. And all these pretty words about helping the team are nice, pretty and round, and perfectly justify also kill stealing - https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing - victory was really endangered.

 

And I don't try to do whatever leads my team to victory, because I have little faith and often don't believe in victory and don't care about random nobodies in my team as they don't care about me.

Maybe because I don't fly flights, so most of the time there is nobody in my team that I should willingly care of. I'm alone against enemies that I should shot and a bit less hostile planes that I shouldn't. Victory counts that it gives 2x exp. If not now, then later.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 18 February 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

And there are situations where it's better not going for the kill, e. g. helping somewhere else instead or trying to survive instead of being greedy. Those things.

My words from few posts back.

Only when there is a reason to. Just being sometime isn't enough.

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Cheaterhater #14 Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:25 AM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

No exp, but hoarding new planes (through silver and exp) and developing crews. Some longer term and higher level goal than trying to win a 6 minutes battle. And that part gives bigger impulse to my reward system than winning a battle. Winning a battle is just getting the job done, short term goal as many around.

 

You're actually serious about seeing WoWP as some kind of economy simulation and you don't care about the actual game itself? I mean, I know that progression is an incentive to keep the players playing the game, but the game itself, the battles, are still the main thing. With your number of battles, I suppose you have all researchable planes right now. Does that mean that you'll stop playing the game entirely, as it provides no entertainment for you anymore?

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

No exp, but hoarding new planes (through silver and exp) and developing crews. Some longer term and higher level goal than trying to win a 6 minutes battle. And that part gives bigger impulse to my reward system than winning a battle. Winning a battle is just getting the job done, short term goal as many around.

I look what they do.

If I see top tier plane not being GAA that does GT, it's quite obvious that it either can't play otherwise or doesn't care. At tier VI for example one could expect some level of competence, so trying to carry such players would be counterproductive, because they will keep their playstyle.

Another kind are campers awaiting till 3/4th of the team are dead to just pick rest of enemy team.

 

Other kind of battles are battles lost by MM - a top tier HF or a flight countered by corresponding number of bots for example.

 

I'm making the inevitable faster. Sometimes I judge wrong and team wins, then I was useless anyway. Cases that battles were lost by an edge are extremely rare, and in such case it's a bad luck. As many.

 

Well then, seeing how you don't enjoy the game kinda explains your defeatist attitude, but I still don't understand why you play it at all then. It's a game, it is meant to provide short-term entertainment. Getting all the planes in the game is not an achievement. I mean, it takes a lot of time, but then what? What do you gain from that, if not even the way going there was enjoyable? I mean, I also try to grind all the tech trees, but I do so as long as it is fun. When it turns to frustration, I quit and do something else. And that's why I don't understand why you even bother with it. Makes no sense to me.

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

The one behavior to kill a plane with low HP instead of one chasing a plane from the team?

 

You said something like:

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

And if you are shooting a plane, and other player starts shooting despite there are plenty of enemy planes around, it is kill stealing. Especially if you have a mission for kills.

 

I just disagree with "kill stealing" being worse when you have a mission, because it isn't. You having a mission doesn't change how people should play. Not even remotely talking about whether that behaviour is good or bad.

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

Well, those who are stealing kills seem to be focused on kills. And all these pretty words about helping the team are nice, pretty and round, and perfectly justify also kill stealing - https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing - victory was really endangered.

 

Your screenshot shows that all those players there had no other target to shoot at. Except for that one attack aircraft (that, I assume, is the P.1099B fighting an IL-40), all other enemies are supposedly to the south, which means that this one enemy is in the team's way anyway. Furthermore, your guns are overheating, he's just at the edge of your effective range, and you're close to stalling. Quite unlikely you could kill him. Do you expect the team to ignore him when there's nothing else around? It's fair game, really. You're not entitled to the kills, you know. If someone was following you and refusing to shoot just to take the kill once you've got that enemy low enough, that would've been a different case for the reasons I gave above.

 

View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 18 February 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

And I don't try to do whatever leads my team to victory, because I have little faith and often don't believe in victory and don't care about random nobodies in my team as they don't care about me.

Maybe because I don't fly flights, so most of the time there is nobody in my team that I should willingly care of. I'm alone against enemies that I should shot and a bit less hostile planes that I shouldn't. Victory counts that it gives 2x exp. If not now, then later.

 

As I said, you assume that they don't care, which is just not the case. That's what I meant when I said you assume they share your mindset. Not everyone is that arrogant.


Edited by Cheaterhater, 19 February 2017 - 03:29 AM.

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eekeeboo #15 Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:04 AM

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Cheaterhater always steals my kills :( and my damage :( he's mean. 

 

Kill stealing is a thing and does happen, if someone decides to kill the plane in front of you on 10hp instead of the plane behind you on 100hp that's a pure steal and being a phallus. People who think it's OK to do that, in those circumstances just like with GTs because they feel it's OK to do that.... simply you're wrong, this is what we call being a Richard. 



jakub_czyli_ja #16 Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:23 AM

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View PostCheaterhater, on 19 February 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

You're actually serious about seeing WoWP as some kind of economy simulation and you don't care about the actual game itself? I mean, I know that progression is an incentive to keep the players playing the game, but the game itself, the battles, are still the main thing. With your number of battles, I suppose you have all researchable planes right now. Does that mean that you'll stop playing the game entirely, as it provides no entertainment for you anymore?

 

Well then, seeing how you don't enjoy the game kinda explains your defeatist attitude, but I still don't understand why you play it at all then. It's a game, it is meant to provide short-term entertainment. Getting all the planes in the game is not an achievement. I mean, it takes a lot of time, but then what? What do you gain from that, if not even the way going there was enjoyable? I mean, I also try to grind all the tech trees, but I do so as long as it is fun. When it turns to frustration, I quit and do something else. And that's why I don't understand why you even bother with it. Makes no sense to me.

More or less.

I don't play with premium account much, and I'm making daily missions, so I lack Ki-162-III - about k exp till end. Researching all planes is easy mode. A bit harder is to have all planes, then all pilots with at least 4 points, and final, impossible - all pilots on all planes with 15 points.

In WoT you have random battles, than you have endgame content like companies (available since mid-game), strongholds and clan wars. And in such mode win becomes a win, all random $hitty things like campers, braindeads, imba planes are out, because teams, planes and tactics are determined before. And I'm naive and still hope such thing will appear in WoWP.

So after researching all planes I'll probably just collect daily portion of tokens and be training pilots.

And we have few full lines waiting - obvious are Hawkers and Grummans, on RU forum devs mentioned about few short branches like VIII-X tier. Maybe French planes some day,so I think WG will manage to put planes in the game as I'll be researching previous ones.

 

It's like playing Football Manager (I don't care about football, but name sounds right).

View PostCheaterhater, on 19 February 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

Your screenshot shows that all those players there had no other target to shoot at. Except for that one attack aircraft (that, I assume, is the P.1099B fighting an IL-40), all other enemies are supposedly to the south, which means that this one enemy is in the team's way anyway. Furthermore, your guns are overheating, he's just at the edge of your effective range, and you're close to stalling. Quite unlikely you could kill him. Do you expect the team to ignore him when there's nothing else around? It's fair game, really. You're not entitled to the kills, you know. If someone was following you and refusing to shoot just to take the kill once you've got that enemy low enough, that would've been a different case for the reasons I gave above.

For me there are 4 enemy planes alive, 2 to look for to finish the game ASAP.

Target is in the exact same speed and engine situation as I am, and since I've stripped it out from I think well over 90% HP, I'd get it.

 

View PostCheaterhater, on 19 February 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

As I said, you assume that they don't care, which is just not the case. That's what I meant when I said you assume they share your mindset. Not everyone is that arrogant.

If I see a plane being top tier, like for example F4U-1 loaded with rockets and from the start of the battle attacks GTs, I'm starting to have doubts if pilot is willing to help in win. Of course he'd like to win, but most wants.

Helping to win is the case.

Then just out of curiosity I check his stats and see few thousands battles, mid 4x% WR. What suggests that such player plays like that all the time, and shows, that is unable to connect that playstyle with the fact that he loses more than wins. So it's in general same situation as me crashing at the beginning of set up battle. Only that I do that in battles that I consider lost and such player in all battles.

 

I played like that in planes I considered massively UP - F2G, both F-84s, so I know how does that look from that spot, and my results are corresponding. For others there are more reliable ways to score exp.

 

Other case is that players really tried, but somehow didn't manage and died all leaving like 5 enemy planes. I'm not so good to kill them all, so also battle result is also already established.


Clear cache/Skasuj cache: cmd /K del /Q /F /S "%TEMP%\wargaming.net\wowp\cache"

 

And everything else/i wszystko inne: cmd /K del /Q /F /S "%APPDATA%\Wargaming.net\World of Warplanes"





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