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FIX IN GAME CRASHES NOW PLEASE!


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britinmadrid #21 Posted 30 December 2017 - 06:39 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 30 December 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

After you've read that, the game is free to play, you can either choose to pay or not, but it is still a free to play game. You can throw a million euros at a team, but if the team is still only 6-10 people you will still get 6-10 people's work...... 

 

I apologise for the condescending tone but I have now repeated the above 4-5 times to the same people. The fact I have to keep repeating this and any advice i give to remedy the situation is met with... "Well why should I? It's not my job" I'm quite frankly not inclined to offer further help. 

 

Hello again, eekeebo!

 

Free-to-play? No it isn't! I pay for Premium and buy Premium aircraft. Consequently, I'd argue that your oft-repeated arguments which seem to support WG don't hold water.

 

If the game has 6-10 staff (you seem to have inside information...possibly you are one of them?) then they need to finish their Alpha testing before charging 45 Euros/Dollars/Pounds for a game which isn't entirely stable. I believe I made this point above.

 

If you have made the same arguments to 4-5 people, possibly you are missing the point? This is a subjective argument, not an objective one. No customers = no game...end of story. If the customer isn't happy, there will be no future for the game. People like me (45-years-old, full-time employment) pay for the 80% of people who - through no fault of their own - cannot yet pay and help support the game. If 3-4 crashes per hour continues, we will evaporate and migrate to other games. I'd recommend you stop suggesting that we need to fettle our computers and instead of defending WG, insist that they provide a decent service for AAA prices.

 

Have you ever heard of the expression, "The customer is always right?". I pay...I am the customer and this game is already on its last legs after its previous (failed) incarnation, I'd suggest.

 

I have the right to complain. You have the right to defend WG. You are in the minority.

 

Possibly you are wrong? :-)


Edited by britinmadrid, 30 December 2017 - 06:41 PM.


eekeeboo #22 Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:38 PM

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View PostClean, on 30 December 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

Eekeeboo, why are you apologising for Wargaming?

 

Frankly your advice is pointless and it seems to me you do not understand. My PC is in the top 1% of users. Not bragging just fact. I should have to do nothing to make this game work. I am not an eastern european running a toaster getting 10 fps on minimum settings. If your game crashes then add yourself to the thread.

 

I don't care how small the WG team is. My beef is not with the developers directly. Your free to pay argument is not valid. WG are not a charity. They make money from this game that we pay for. There should be some moderation in this forum to acknowledge problems and state what is being done to fix it and when. WG is a multi billion enterprise, if the team is small then hire more, simple.

 

 

I'm not apologising. I'm pointing out the fact that demanding a small team fix everything wrong with the game right now. After calling that size team a "triple A" gaming company. It's a distorted expectation, that doesn't help anyone. Furthermore, there are plenty of people complaining about crashes but don't do simple things like play in windowed borderless or set CPU affinity to avoid core 0. Two simple things that can improve stability hugely but instead demand 4k resolution for a game that isn't designed to be played like it. I'm not saying that the game is perfect, what I am saying is have realistic expectations and help solve the problem not complain. 

Pitulusu #23 Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:44 PM

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He keep going with useless explanation, no one asked for...if i find ignore option... found it... first one on my ignore list!

Edited by Pitulusu, 30 December 2017 - 08:46 PM.


eekeeboo #24 Posted 30 December 2017 - 09:05 PM

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View Postbritinmadrid, on 30 December 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

 

 

Hello again! Free to play, you can play this game without spending a penny, you making the choice doesn't stop it being free, thus budgets and the way they are funded tend to be very different. 

 

For the team size, i just provided a link to the page that shows their team. You don't get charged for the game, you can pay for objects in the game if you choose to do so, but the game itself is free. You can earn the planes and various things through playing. You are at no point required or blocked from progressing if you don't pay money, your account is no way limited. You pay to grind less or gain access to special planes you can wait to earn at a later time. 

 

I've made my point in that the game isn't perfect, crashes aren't great but there's things people can do to lessen these, the same people will oft repeat their statements on crashes but not do anything or even try to remedy anything themselves. Expecting and demanding and instantaneous fix on an issue that may be new and takes time to sort especially with smaller teams is not helping anyone. Like i said it's a skewed expectation that frustrates people. When you have expectations of the standard you are requesting/demanding it doesn't help anyone. 

 

There are plenty of "triple A" companies where minor fixes and user modifications were required to get a game to work, this is with a development company larger than Persha and far more funded. WoWP is still a niche game in a niche market that has been on "life support" for many years. The more income the more resources they get. 

 

My point has been, if you can simple fix most of your issue with 30 seconds work, but don't do so out of stubborn obstenance.... then I'm curious why that blame should be levelled at a company. The development company don't dictate their level of funding and resource allocation. They prioratise fixes on the most game breaking or most pertinent based on data. The data for recent causes of crashes take time to fix, of which there has been little and it's the holiday period where most attention is elsewhere. 

 

You state about the need for better software etc, but the WoWP engine is an ageing one still. 

 

The customer is always right is a philosophy used to try and retain customer service. But that is a philosophy adopted at company level and as long as it isn't against law or ToS etc. Such as a customer is always right, but if they get banned for a game they abused or broke ToS they aren't right to be un-banned. You as a customer are not right in saying they should give you a million gold or a full refund. 

 

Everyone has a right to complain, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Likewise i am entitled to point out if you've been provided various means to reduce your level of issue with software and don't choose to even try it. When this is the same advice possibly suggested by customer service who will eventually ask you for dxdiag logs etc. I am curious if you have submitted a ticket and gone through this process? Or just the forums?



edkum #25 Posted 30 December 2017 - 09:34 PM

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Well, I'm sorry but You're wrong eekee. We expect, as costumers, that company responsbile for this game fix problems caused by them. I would not complain if the crashes were caused by my hardware/software. 


But the problem is on Persha's side. And I don't care if they're too small or underpaid - it's their God damn responsiblity to their costumers to fix their product. 


Edited by edkum, 30 December 2017 - 09:34 PM.


jaybee_ #26 Posted 30 December 2017 - 09:41 PM

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I understand the reasoning behind your arguments why Persha isn't able to fix the problems sooner. That doesn't mean that I approve of that or that I am okay with it. I'm here to play a game and to have fun with it. I can't do that, since there are issues with the game, one of them is mentioned here in form of game crashes.

 

And the free to play argument is technically true - I don't have to spend money on this game. But I did. And I can't use the product I pay for when the game crashes, when I try to play with it. 

 

Yes, there are things you can do to make the game crash LESS - but it should not be put in my responsibility to fiddle with my PC and the game to make it run properly. That is the job of the developers.


Edited by jaybee_, 30 December 2017 - 09:42 PM.


jakub_czyli_ja #27 Posted 30 December 2017 - 10:18 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 30 December 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

I feel you aren't reading what I'm typing. 

 

Like with ANY PC you put an old engine and a not fully optimised game on it, you will crashing issues and stability issues. I would like you first to read this sentence before moving on to the next.

No you won't.

If application is good, it won't crash like WoWP.

It may degrade due to insufficient resources, and finally crash, but won't crash out of the blue.

Such crashes mean that something in application is really wrong.

Block Quote

The team developing WoWP is actually a small one, it is not the entire of WG that works on the game, it is a small team within WG that does so. It has been only a few months since a drastic overhaul of the game from maps to graphics and lighting. Based on small team resources catching a lot of the bugs takes time, already 2 patches released were addressing some of those bugs. 

 

After you've taken the time to read that sentence, I would like you to read the following, my game does crash, but I also stream the game and the resources and minimising the game while playing in windowed causes it's own issues. When i set CPU affinity and change priority of tasks and don't stream the game, my stability is almost perfect apart from long gaming sessions. 

 

After you've read that, the game is free to play, you can either choose to pay or not, but it is still a free to play game. You can throw a million euros at a team, but if the team is still only 6-10 people you will still get 6-10 people's work......

It may be as well a one man job - take crash callstack, analyze, find root cause, direct to proper person to fix it.

Only that WG even doesn't even try to collect crashed callstacks, so if they don't have entry point, they can do $hit.

 

If you want to look how such unstable application should behave after the crash, go check Armored Warfare - after a crash automatic upload of debugging data starts, no bull$hit that your PC or your Internet provider are insufficient. No support contact required.

Block Quote

 I apologise for the condescending tone but I have now repeated the above 4-5 times to the same people. The fact I have to keep repeating this and any advice i give to remedy the situation is met with... "Well why should I? It's not my job" I'm quite frankly not inclined to offer further help.

Since every attempt of help start with support, that demands ridiculous things (launch WG' spyware), and when support does everything to discourage input, such questions are really well founded.

 

Block Quote

The game world of warplanes has been worked on by a small team for 2-3 years now.... you will have small team problems.

It isn't "small team problem". It's a problem of lack of code quality.

And root causes seem to be present since Thor's Hammer - then main issue with Hangar UI was introduced, and wasn't removed till now. Cache problems are even older, but they aren't lethal.

Block Quote

In those 2 patches a lot of things were added and a lot of things fixed, game mechanic bugs and issues with missions are more important to fix than something that a simple client restart can fix. Priority and optimisation of available of resources is important for the team and making sure choices are made for the longevity and sustainability of the game.

Apparently not the main things.

Game mechanic and mission issues should be fixed long time ago. Like before release. It's called "testing".


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eekeeboo #28 Posted 30 December 2017 - 10:48 PM

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View Postedkum, on 30 December 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

Well, I'm sorry but You're wrong eekee. We expect, as costumers, that company responsbile for this game fix problems caused by them. I would not complain if the crashes were caused by my hardware/software. 


But the problem is on Persha's side. And I don't care if they're too small or underpaid - it's their God damn responsiblity to their costumers to fix their product. 

 

costumers disguise themselves though! 

View Postjaybee_, on 30 December 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

I understand the reasoning behind your arguments why Persha isn't able to fix the problems sooner. That doesn't mean that I approve of that or that I am okay with it. I'm here to play a game and to have fun with it. I can't do that, since there are issues with the game, one of them is mentioned here in form of game crashes.

 

And the free to play argument is technically true - I don't have to spend money on this game. But I did. And I can't use the product I pay for when the game crashes, when I try to play with it. 

 

Yes, there are things you can do to make the game crash LESS - but it should not be put in my responsibility to fiddle with my PC and the game to make it run properly. That is the job of the developers.

 

You paid for your plane, that works fine, the client crashing isn't technically what you paid for. 

 

Don't get me wrong, you've seen, crashes aren't cool. But spamming the forums with fix it naow triple A company isn't going to help or work if you don't even take time to submit tickets with relevant technical info. If you can't be bothered to do that or even try to remedy an issue.... should the developers also launch your game for you? If it was something like where my game crashed everytime i went to barracks because of a client side bug, fair enough, but because of engine limitation, not so much. 



jaybee_ #29 Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:05 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 30 December 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

You paid for your plane, that works fine, the client crashing isn't technically what you paid for. 

 

So, I need to purchase a package that stops my game from crashing? Because that's what you are implying. "You didn't pay for the game to not crash so you can't expect it to not crash." That wouldn't be free to play at all anymore. And if I try to fly a plane and my game crashes, it is a limitation that stops me from accessing my purchased product. 

 

View Posteekeeboo, on 30 December 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, you've seen, crashes aren't cool. But spamming the forums with fix it naow triple A company isn't going to help or work if you don't even take time to submit tickets with relevant technical info. If you can't be bothered to do that or even try to remedy an issue.... should the developers also launch your game for you? If it was something like where my game crashed everytime i went to barracks because of a client side bug, fair enough, but because of engine limitation, not so much. 

 

What does me wanting to have an issue fixed have to do with developers launching my game for me? 

 

This is what all these early-access-games have done to the gaming community in my opinion. We appearently live in a time where we need to justify the wish for a completed and fully working game and where the customer is responsible for making a game run on his computer. I completely disagree with that behaviour.

 

If you offer a product and let people spend money on it, you are responsible to offer a fully functional product. This game is not in beta, it is not in some sort of testing phase. So the customers can expect the product to work. 



BravelyRanAway #30 Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:20 PM

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eekeeboo #31 Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:37 PM

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View Postjaybee_, on 30 December 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

 

So, I need to purchase a package that stops my game from crashing? Because that's what you are implying. "You didn't pay for the game to not crash so you can't expect it to not crash." That wouldn't be free to play at all anymore. And if I try to fly a plane and my game crashes, it is a limitation that stops me from accessing my purchased product. 

 

 

What does me wanting to have an issue fixed have to do with developers launching my game for me? 

 

This is what all these early-access-games have done to the gaming community in my opinion. We appearently live in a time where we need to justify the wish for a completed and fully working game and where the customer is responsible for making a game run on his computer. I completely disagree with that behaviour.

 

If you offer a product and let people spend money on it, you are responsible to offer a fully functional product. This game is not in beta, it is not in some sort of testing phase. So the customers can expect the product to work. 

 

As soon as you mention things about purchasing a product and the customer rights that's where you need to look at what you purchase when you buy premium plane and account etc. You're not purchasing the right to enter the server etc, you're buying the right to rent the pixels within the game. 

 

As I said, Free to play game, but the goods you are purchasing do not affect the stability of the game. Arguing a triple A developer should fix this all over-night because people are paying for it, that's what is being said. That's not how it works, arguing you pump 100's of euros into a game, that doesn't all go to the development company, that no matter how much you pay 1 person, they are still going to do the work of 1 person. I'm not saying this is a statement you have made, but it has been made in this thread. I state there are simple issues you can do to prevent the frequency of crashes for some people, why would you not do them under the basis you believe you've paid someone to do it all for you?

 

The engine right now cannot and does not use multi cores, nor does it utilise more gpu than cpu, no matter how much you ask for improvements, until the base technology changes, it will remain the same only more optimisation. Optimisation is happening, but it happens in stages when it's a small team. You can't expect everything all at once, backwards steps happen, but with limited resources you have to prioritise the crash that can be fixed by re-starting the game. Or do you fix the bug that causes you to spawn in an enemy bot plane and you can't play etc. One of those breaks the game so you can't play, one of those breaks the game and you can fix and play. 

 

The mini patches we've had have been to fix certain issues with stability, but those have been completely forgotten. If this was just a few threads with this fair enough. But this is becoming an issue with the same people spamming the same things but refuse to take any action of their own. You cannot demand a company fix something for you if you don't provide them with the necessary information to do so. 

 

And the part where you say launching the game for you, if you expect the developers to do all the work for you all the time. You should expect the programme to run, but you should not expect something to run flawlessly over everything all the time, then if you have a problem refuse out of your own "principle" to not take action you can take to fix anything or even lessen any effect. 

 

Game isn't in beta by the technical term, but it has been stated that a reason for limited advertising is due to what some have considered a not fully completed or polished product and they have a long way to go. 

 

Again people have an expectation of instantaneous results because the WG label is on Warplanes, but you know yourself how small the resource allocation is for the wowp project. Something WG could and should do right now is to increase the amount of resources in a game that has had such a huge refreshed release. 

 

If people were at least willing to attempt any fixes mentioned, and they STILL didn't work, then sending this to WG and to support to forward onto the devs is far more useful than coming to the forums, creating the same threads, stating the same things and yet refusing to do anything pro-active or even constructively reactive other than complaining. I'm not saying yourself is, but there are people in this thread who have done nothing but, in-game and out of it, in these forums. To the stage where rather than spamming the same threads. That's my current issue and stance, you've seen my crashes and how frustrating they are, but i've worked on them to reduce the effect. And i've found plenty more of my own bugs also (also you've seen), I'm not defending that they are in there, I'm not saying they should be in there. I am saying they take time to fix and that if you can do something to get rid of them or reduce them, then why on Earth would you not? 

 

 



jakub_czyli_ja #32 Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:48 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 30 December 2017 - 11:37 PM, said:

Again people have an expectation of instantaneous results because the WG label is on Warplanes, but you know yourself how small the resource allocation is for the wowp project. Something WG could and should do right now is to increase the amount of resources in a game that has had such a huge refreshed release.

Stop bullshitting.

Instantaneous comparing to what?

WoWP was more stable, and got unstable during Thor's Hammer event, because something got screwed up badly, and since then people who screwed up, didn't manage to fix what they did screw. Simple as that.

 

Block Quote

If people were at least willing to attempt any fixes mentioned, and they STILL didn't work, then sending this to WG and to support to forward onto the devs is far more useful than coming to the forums, creating the same threads, stating the same things and yet refusing to do anything pro-active or even constructively reactive other than complaining. I'm not saying yourself is, but there are people in this thread who have done nothing but, in-game and out of it, in these forums. To the stage where rather than spamming the same threads. That's my current issue and stance, you've seen my crashes and how frustrating they are, but i've worked on them to reduce the effect. And i've found plenty more of my own bugs also (also you've seen), I'm not defending that they are in there, I'm not saying they should be in there. I am saying they take time to fix and that if you can do something to get rid of them or reduce them, then why on Earth would you not?

Didn't you read what I wrote about submitting a bug, and how it was done by competition?

 


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eekeeboo #33 Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:57 PM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 30 December 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

Stop bullshitting.

Instantaneous comparing to what?

WoWP was more stable, and got unstable during Thor's Hammer event, because something got screwed up badly, and since then people who screwed up, didn't manage to fix what they did screw. Simple as that.

 

Didn't you read what I wrote about submitting a bug, and how it was done by competition?

 

 

Look back and you'll see it. We've had 3 mini patches since the patch for Albion event, and still not enough progress being made. The big thing that changed in the patch which I'm sure you read the notes on to get some information were the RAM "technology" and the graphics changes. 

 

Did you read the part where the same people write the same complaints and write the same thing saying they don't see why should have to because they pay WG and it should be done for them? 

 

 

 

 



Grumpy_Guts #34 Posted 31 December 2017 - 12:13 AM

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From what they have said the game back in Alfa was fun and for me in early Beta what they had then with aircraft and such was very addictive.

With patch after patch after endless patch a very good game went down the slope to almost oblivion.

Developers should have stopped tinkering years ago and launched as complete a non complicated but addictive game as was.

Spent the development time on more maps and aircraft. 

My point for me is, in Beta I got the Me 410 and still in Beta managed to get 6 kill marks for aircraft and 6 for ground targets, that is over 2000 aircraft kills.

At the end of 1.9 after all there tinkering with so called " improvements " I could not hit a barn door with it, I am no ace flyer by any means but did not become that crap with battle after battle year after year playing.

An arcade style flying game for all became an arcade ( sim ) style game for the few and discouraged new players big time. 


Edited by Grumpy_Guts, 31 December 2017 - 12:33 AM.


zgubny #35 Posted 31 December 2017 - 10:29 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 30 December 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

I feel you aren't reading what I'm typing. 

 

Like with ANY PC you put an old engine and a not fully optimised game on it, you will crashing issues and stability issues. I would like you first to read this sentence before moving on to the next. 

 

The team developing WoWP is actually a small one, it is not the entire of WG that works on the game, it is a small team within WG that does so. It has been only a few months since a drastic overhaul of the game from maps to graphics and lighting. Based on small team resources catching a lot of the bugs takes time, already 2 patches released were addressing some of those bugs. 

 

After you've taken the time to read that sentence, I would like you to read the following, my game does crash, but I also stream the game and the resources and minimising the game while playing in windowed causes it's own issues. When i set CPU affinity and change priority of tasks and don't stream the game, my stability is almost perfect apart from long gaming sessions. 

 

After you've read that, the game is free to play, you can either choose to pay or not, but it is still a free to play game. You can throw a million euros at a team, but if the team is still only 6-10 people you will still get 6-10 people's work...... 

 

I apologise for the condescending tone but I have now repeated the above 4-5 times to the same people. The fact I have to keep repeating this and any advice i give to remedy the situation is met with... "Well why should I? It's not my job" I'm quite frankly not inclined to offer further help. 

 

The game world of warplanes has been worked on by a small team for 2-3 years now.... you will have small team problems. 

 

In those 2 patches a lot of things were added and a lot of things fixed, game mechanic bugs and issues with missions are more important to fix than something that a simple client restart can fix. Priority and optimisation of available of resources is important for the team and making sure choices are made for the longevity and sustainability of the game. 

 

                        In those 2 patches a lot of things were added and a lot of things fixed.....

 

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zgubny #36 Posted 31 December 2017 - 10:38 AM

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                                                FIX IN GAME CRASHES NOW ! ! !



zgubny #37 Posted 31 December 2017 - 10:42 AM

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Stop messing around with your " 2.0 Patch-thetics "explanations boys !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 



zgubny #38 Posted 31 December 2017 - 10:52 AM

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View PostClean, on 29 December 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Seriously, a Triple A gaming company and a game that constantly crashes. Over 2 hour game play period I have usually 4 CTD's. My clan mates all suffer from the same problem. It is a game issue, not a user issue.

 

Please add your name to this thread if you suffer the same problems. Tickets are a waste of time. Lets have some acknowledgement from the developers and a timeline for fix. 

 

Add your name everyday till wargaming moderators stop hiding our posts !!!!!!!!!!!

MindTwister #39 Posted 31 December 2017 - 11:17 AM

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    01-26-2012

Before 2.0.2 I had the occasional crash within two hours and since 2.0.2 it went up to 2-3 crashes per hour. Mostly while loading into a match or after a death, starting a new sortie. So I uninstalled WoWP and did a clean install. In addition, I went from HD client, borderless window to SD client, fullscreen just to try it out. I did this two or three days ago and didn't have a single client crash ever since. Play sessions reaching from one to three hours.

I will gradually change back to my previous settings to see if the crashes are returning, trying to pinpoint if it's related to the HD client, the screen mode, a fault in the patching process, etc. Will keep you posted.



jakub_czyli_ja #40 Posted 31 December 2017 - 12:03 PM

    First Lieutenant

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    01-26-2012

View Posteekeeboo, on 30 December 2017 - 11:57 PM, said:

Look back and you'll see it. We've had 3 mini patches since the patch for Albion event, and still not enough progress being made. The big thing that changed in the patch which I'm sure you read the notes on to get some information were the RAM "technology" and the graphics changes.

And yet there are 2 things:

1. WoWP crashes. For me it crashes when I do Alt Tab immediately after battle ends.

2. Nothing about issues with Hangar UI, that is unstable. With current version when I open missions panel, I often observe flickering. Few times tech trees didn't load.

 

I don't care how many patches were issued. WoWP is unstable. They may work 3 shifts per 24 hours, on hot seats, I don't care nor I don't feel pity for them. They did that for themselves.

 

In 1.x for years they didn't manage to handle cache issue, nor issues with atl-tab. They barely fixed long times of hangar loading issues, plus a number of issues they introduced themselves in the meantime (like equipment handling issue after clicking right equipment squares). Ples already mentioned issues with hangar UI.

Block Quote

 Did you read the part where the same people write the same complaints and write the same thing saying they don't see why should have to because they pay WG and it should be done for them?

And they are right.

Everybody got for free broken product, and aren't willing pay for using it, because thy can play (or at least try) and not pay.

In case of WG there is no connection between paying or not and a game quality.

 

In fact quality increases more when income drops, but 'dropped' seems to be default case of WoWP. FRom my perspective they didn't shut down WoWP only because it would be a major PR failure.


Clear cache/Skasuj cache: cmd /K del /Q /F /S "%TEMP%\wargaming.net\wowp\cache"

 

And everything else/i wszystko inne: cmd /K del /Q /F /S "%APPDATA%\Wargaming.net\World of Warplanes"





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