139 replies to this topic

[johncarps]

eekeeboo, on 08 June 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

 

I mean... you expect me to say don't install it? When we both know i will say re-install it. The patch is coming, other than that not much has changed for the forums. Other than the massive amount of engagement, interaction, threads and provided information. 

 

 

only expect somethings change

[jakub_czyli_ja]

eekeeboo, on 08 June 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

The plane behaviors were not changed, only the camera angle/perspective, if that helps. The current "player" base are playing the game well. The forum "player" base is split as some here do not and will not play 2.0. It was found that 1.9 game mode style was not a viable product or effective at player recruitment/retention.

Give me a break - I know how much time it took for me to move from 1.2 km to a distance of opening fire from cannons (800 meters), and how does that look now.

Something was broken, speed or acceleration.

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 The game is now friendlier to new players and some will find the adrenaline they seek. As for the following list of personal opinions, I shall follow with my own:

Really? At tier I I can score over 20k points while poor noob in enemy team struggles to reach maybe 5k.

And there is a considerable number of players with 40% or so WR and tens of hours in game, that struggle to get 2k points in battle - especially easy to spot during the event.

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In 2.0, a player

*doesn't worry about dying - actually they worry less about being punished for taking risks and being proactive in game.

Maybe in new random mode that brought number of weekly players below 5k.

In weekend mode they are being punished as hell.

Sometime I felt sorry killing some poor bastard 3rd or 4th time.

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 *doesn't worry about saving bombs rockets... - It's about knowing when to use them at the right time, not saving them until the end of the battle and hope you get to use them properly. There are plenty of targets to hit now, not limited ones.

Don't know how to use them either. Removal of strafing mode only makes it worse.

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 *doesn't know tactics of map ( this feature killed in 2.0 completely).... - Map tactics and strategy are now more integral and vital than before. Before it was altitude not situational awareness and map reactivity that won games.

And thanks to completely fcuked up minimap and HUD, they know crapeven if they want to know more. Very few want, but still.

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*doesn't know his planes strength - The plane behaviours on the whole have not change with small exceptions. So plane strengths and weakness are important. If it wasn't for that case people wouldn't be having issues with the weakness of BnZ

*doesn't know enemy planes weakness.. - refer above and the use of energy management, boost and brake. 

Another bullshit.

Try to compare tier VII HFs: 109Z, F7F and Hornet - all look alike, differences are quite minor.

 

Difference is that now TnB planes have all the love while BnZ are kinda useless, because not not dying is not so important as was before.

 

[BravelyRanAway]

jakub_czyli_ja, on 08 June 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

 

And thanks to completely fcuked up minimap and HUD,

The mini-map is the worst I've ever seen in a game.....useless and dreadful design.

[dreambill]

eekeeboo, on 08 June 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

The plane behaviors were not changed,

 

 

With all do respect, I heard this sometimes till now.

And I CUT my hand that is a HUGE lie, or I am completely dumb.

The plane behavior has been ridiculously oversimplified in terms of handling, (Not that it wasn't before), but in 1.9 for instance if you tried to point the nose of a zero or i-16 upwards you had an almost imminent stall and GREAT energy loss.

Here you can point them upwards and as long they have boost, can be space suttles. All planes had an "inertia" (to different level) when trying to alter course or accelerate and didn't turn instantly and fake as they do now.

You said by yourself that HFs from OP had become Nerfed. How come this without changing their behavior?

I tried 4 years to learn a hard game that I really liked it, and no one can persuade me that what is presented now has the same plane behavior with the old game, I'm surprised that you haven't the same feeling.

Edited by dreambill, 08 June 2018 - 06:10 PM.

[eekeeboo]

jakub_czyli_ja, on 08 June 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

Give me a break - I know how much time it took for me to move from 1.2 km to a distance of opening fire from cannons (800 meters), and how does that look now.

Something was broken, speed or acceleration.

Really? At tier I I can score over 20k points while poor noob in enemy team struggles to reach maybe 5k.

And there is a considerable number of players with 40% or so WR and tens of hours in game, that struggle to get 2k points in battle - especially easy to spot during the event.

Maybe in new random mode that brought number of weekly players below 5k.

In weekend mode they are being punished as hell.

Sometime I felt sorry killing some poor bastard 3rd or 4th time.

Don't know how to use them either. Removal of strafing mode only makes it worse.

And thanks to completely fcuked up minimap and HUD, they know crapeven if they want to know more. Very few want, but still.

Another bullshit.

Try to compare tier VII HFs: 109Z, F7F and Hornet - all look alike, differences are quite minor.

 

Difference is that now TnB planes have all the love while BnZ are kinda useless, because not not dying is not so important as was before.

 

 

You mean the perception of your acceleration changed? Like the camera being different? 

 

As for people's ability you after all yourself said you don't play this game for challenge and don't want to do well, just fly around. Remember?

[eekeeboo]

dreambill, on 08 June 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

 

 

 

The act of altitude compression and the way a lot of boost rates had been reduced. 

 

In particular from the patch notes: 

Spoiler

 

Altitude mechanics

• Altitude echelons have been emphasized more strongly. Optimum altitudes and ceilings have been tuned; spawn points for various classes have been moved. Changes to the normal altitudes of light and heavy defenders and the Attack Flights of bombers were made.
• Changed how aircraft flight characteristics are affected by altitude. Now, when flying at the whole range of optimum altitudes (from 0m to optimum), the aircraft has maximum maneuverability; when exceeding the optimum altitude, the flight characteristics will deteriorate significantly; when flying close to the ceiling, the flight characteristics will be barely sufficient for level flight. These three states are conveyed by the altitude numbers on the battle HUD: they will switch from white at optimum altitude range to orange when exceeding it, and then to red when approaching the ceiling.
• The ability of bombers and heavy fighters to operate efficiently at high altitude has been emphasized more strongly.
• Low altitude fighters no longer exceed high altitude aircraft in maneuverability at high altitudes.
• The altitude parameters of attack aircraft will allow them to overcome terrain easily but they will no longer be able to climb high in the air.

 

[dreambill]

So all these are not changes in plane behavior?

Do I loose something in translation?

[jakub_czyli_ja]

eekeeboo, on 08 June 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

You mean the perception of your acceleration changed? Like the camera being different? 

If by "being different" you mean showing increasing numbers describing speed slower - then yes.

I have a feeling that time between picking target being 1.2km away and engaging it at 800 meters is significant longer than in 1.9.

 

I'd try to remember to perform some experiment - just falling free, plane should accelerate 36 km/h every second just by gravity. Plus acceleration from engine thrust. I need to check how it is in WoWP 2.0.

 

Block Quote

 As for people's ability you after all yourself said you don't play this game for challenge and don't want to do well, just fly around. Remember?

Not fly around, but to find a local shitholeoptimum where I get possibly highest income with lowest commitment.

[Milckenbom]

Any news about the dev diary? It has been said we would have 1 this month (officially we would have had 1 in May).

Edited by Milckenbom, 08 June 2018 - 10:49 PM.

[Humboldt_]

Hello eekeeboo thanks for being the mouth of the community this is what i miss a lot , when will Anniversary planes be put back in missions , I registered all my planes to 2.0 but liked the free XP when it was said planes birthday. Thought it was a crap thing WG did by taking it away ,please  pass on to devs to bring it back again thanks. good luck with you're new post mate.

[chief_de_wrecker]

eekeeboo, on 08 June 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

 

 

 The changed camera angle/perspective!!!...no, it doesn't seem to help..

As for my 'personal opinions', they are very much existent, although you may choose to look away. You know what, lol, I am able to out turn a human enemy fighter pilot of 2.0 in my IL-40. This is the kind of pilots that current game is producing....not forcing pilots to think about how to survive , to be tactical...

And your response to most of my points is just for the sake of it, not convincing at all, & some of them you didn't even comprehend....& that 'it was altitude not situational awareness and map reactivity that won games' gets the full fresh Cake....no half-eaten ones!!!!

I mostly flew GAs...& it was purely because of situational awareness that I won pretty most of them against all including zoomers/boomers...

I knew a strategic point in almost every map (out of experience, I have NA account as well) where if I could get there in time, it would take probably 3 good fighters to bring my GA down if they had enough time...I came out smiling most of the time...

And thanks for your proposal to buy my PC....... I ve got a few better ones,....lucky me

Edited by chief_de_wrecker, 09 June 2018 - 07:48 AM.

[BravelyRanAway]

chief_de_wrecker, on 09 June 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

 

You know what, lol, I am able to out turn a human enemy fighter pilot of 2.0 in my IL-40. This is the kind of pilots that current game is producing....not forcing pilots to think about how to survive , to be tactical...

Hyperbole. The guys you beat doing that wouldn't be much good at most games. Blaming that on the present game is a bit of a stretch.

[Zanov]

Congratulations eekeeboo!!

 

Now that forums are moving again ^_^

 

Best regards.

[eekeeboo]

dreambill, on 08 June 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

So all these are not changes in plane behavior?

Do I loose something in translation?

 

The plane handles the same, the plane does not handle the same outside of the optimum altitude. The altitude compression was changed. You stay in the white and you're good to go, go into the yellow and you're a poor fellow. Go into the red and soon you'll be dead! This is why BnZ is now harder to pull of in a variety of ways, but far more fulfilling and can be devastatingly effective. 

 

jakub_czyli_ja, on 08 June 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

 

 

Refer above to the way altitude is now more affective in your planes behaviour. The plane accelerates at the same speed in white altitude as it used to. It will not outside of optimum altitude. This was one of the major changes in 2.0 I warmly welcomed to help distinguish those who knew how to energy manage over those who are learning. 

 

Milckenbom, on 08 June 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Any news about the dev diary? It has been said we would have 1 this month (officially we would have had 1 in May).

 

I can only say that it's soon, but it is on its way. 

Humboldt_, on 09 June 2018 - 01:52 AM, said:

 

 

I'm not sure when the anniversaries will return. They were put back with the development team driving to fix bugs and increase optimisation. I can tell you that new features will keep you busy for a while. I too hope those Birthdays come back, they were a great help to level planes you'd long forgotten. When anniversaries do return, there is no promise that free xp will return with them since there's a larger portion of free xp now available in the dailies. This is just my personal thought thinking about the economics of the game. 

 

chief_de_wrecker, on 09 June 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

 

 

If you are out turning an enemy player in an IL40, that person is likely damaged or has bled way too much speed. Also with the ferocity of rear gunners, many will try to stay out of rear gunner firing arcs. I welcome you to try out turning me when I'm in a fighter though . I have out-turned people in the tier 9 and 10 German GAA in my IL40P. It's about knowing how to balance your stalling speed and turning speed. There is also the factor that they are going much faster than you in most cases, so of course you will out-turn them as they over shoot and do a strafing run. This as hinted before is better than staying in the rear gunner fire of a GAA. 

 

If my points were not valid about situational awareness and map awareness I would not be able to influence the games as often as I do. This also goes for the same for those I've helped to learn the game and pass on what knowledge I have about maps and planes and play styles. Hopefully when things get going more map guides will be made. 

 

Zanov, on 09 June 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

 

 

Thank-you! Here's hoping you can help me keep the forums going too! 

[dreambill]

Eekee, I don't want to be negative for the shake of it, I simply cannot accept what you are saying about plane behavior. The "feeling" and experience of "flying" a plane in the game is utterly destroyed in V2.0 (with whatever alterations or not had been done in it), for the shake of easy to handle 30 kills per game for new players (together with respawns - but this is another talk).

It would be easy to prove to anyone if the old mode would be alongside to compare them, but alas. its deletion serves this too. No direct comparison between them, so no possibility this mode to be proved inferior to the old.

I still play occasionally in the Chinese server V1.9 and although having 400 ping (rendering the game on the edge of considering it playable) the enjoyment is 10 times what I can get from this flat no matter being shot down - winning or loosing incarnation of the game.

I acknowledge the No new player friendly situation of the old mode that this mode tries to address, so I long ago changed my POV from "reverse" to the old mode to "ADD" the old mode, cause this mode provides no enjoyment to experienced players who like to fly a plane and score a kill (or better a few ones) against worthy opponents without being shot down if possible.

Moving around for 10 mins without caring being dead and killing 10ths of dumb bots, has no fun at all, at least for me, hope you understand what I mean.

And as for the "tactical" aspect of it, I play civilization or total war games that fulfill it 100 times better for my taste. No need to have it in a Plane game too. I want it to be about flying planes.

Edited by dreambill, 10 June 2018 - 09:51 AM.

[eekeeboo]

dreambill, on 10 June 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

 

 

I understand that, and I too when I first launch 2.0 felt the plane behaviour was too similar along the full spectrum of planes. It was only when i looked into it further and tested why things like the Ta 152 now feel a lot better than before and so close to the 209a considering no actual plane statistics were changed. If you look up at the altitude of each plane and the changes to optimum altitude system so that you are not punished for being lower than the stated value etc. This is why energy management and picking your fight at the right altitude works. 

 

You yourself I'm sure will remember putting planes with low ceilings at red altitudes was a nightmare pre 2.0. For instance the F2G despite having a nice altitude would suffer heavily above 3k, bcoming almost brick like. That effect now comes into effect more harshly at the echelons of altitude for your aircraft. You'll see this when you try to climb higher and higher in planes like the XF-90, no matter the speed you have when you start and if you wait and hold on etc, the altitude ceiling for optimum performance on your plane soon kicks in and will have an effect. Interestingly, planes like the J8M suffer less from this because of the fact it's a rocket booster rather than jet engine. 

 

The big thing is that people see the game as no challenge because of a chance to respawn. There is nothing to stop you from challenging yourself to not die, it's what I do. The difference being is you will not be punished for sacrificing yourself or risking something now. You won't be punished for being that person who takes out a free roaming GAA and though you will win before your xp gain etc would be detrimental for it. As for tactical aspect, it may not be "needed" for some, but it's a feature that enriches a pvp/team game in my opinion. Many other games have it, I see no detriment to having it in WoWP. 

 

One thing I will say is as you play on the Chinese server. You can check the stats for the planes and compare them as well as their behaviour at their optimum altitude from then until now. 

[jakub_czyli_ja]

eekeeboo, on 10 June 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

I understand that, and I too when I first launch 2.0 felt the plane behaviour was too similar along the full spectrum of planes. It was only when i looked into it further and tested why things like the Ta 152 now feel a lot better than before and so close to the 209a considering no actual plane statistics were changed. If you look up at the altitude of each plane and the changes to optimum altitude system so that you are not punished for being lower than the stated value etc. This is why energy management and picking your fight at the right altitude works.

Do you refer only Ta 152 and Me 209 or all planes, that stats weren't changed?

Block Quote

You yourself I'm sure will remember putting planes with low ceilings at red altitudes was a nightmare pre 2.0. For instance the F2G despite having a nice altitude would suffer heavily above 3k, bcoming almost brick like. That effect now comes into effect more harshly at the echelons of altitude for your aircraft. You'll see this when you try to climb higher and higher in planes like the XF-90, no matter the speed you have when you start and if you wait and hold on etc, the altitude ceiling for optimum performance on your plane soon kicks in and will have an effect. Interestingly, planes like the J8M suffer less from this because of the fact it's a rocket booster rather than jet engine.

It was a problem with hidden stats, like in WoT there are ground resistance, in WoWP apparently is energy loss in maneuvers.

Some planes keep energy like charm, other - lose it from just looking sideways. F2G was one of such planes, and all it had to be done was to buff its energy retention. But no, it's better to screw all.

And funny thing is that F2G apparently loses energy as in 1.x. I'll have more feelings when I'll buy it on RU server.

 

 

[BiBaBummsebiene]

eekeeboo, on 10 June 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

 It was only when i looked into it further and tested why things like the Ta 152 now feel a lot better than before and so close to the 209a considering no actual plane statistics were changed.

 

Nice example. The Ta152 got nerfed by 500m in altitude. From 3k to 2,5k. Why? There is no need anymore fighting high and it's easy to reach you maximum alt as there is no punishment for being low. Me 209A has been nerfed from 2,8k to 2,5k. Same reason: bring down the fight. The strength of these planes were the "energy" you built at the start of the game. They both are AND were dangerous heavy hunters. Every 262 thinking they gonna outclimb these planes were surprised how these planes were able to follow them. Ta 152 got a buff of 0,2 sec. (not 100% sure about that). 209A I think was nerfed in 360°.

 

eekeeboo, on 10 June 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

You yourself I'm sure will remember putting planes with low ceilings at red altitudes was a nightmare pre 2.0. For instance the F2G despite having a nice altitude would suffer heavily above 3k, bcoming almost brick like.

F2G (and F4U-4/1) has intense engines and whoever thought it would be a good thing to fly it over 3k was .... .. his fault. Yes it was hard if you had a good team against you that had more alt then you and ur mates it was a tough game. BUT if you had a good team too it was no auto-lose. The only fault made by players were shooting at the climbing plane, not at the diving plane (as long as you weren't the target being dived at). In this situation one was able to see who is the better pilot.

eekeeboo, on 10 June 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

If you look up at the altitude of each plane and the changes to optimum altitude system so that you are not punished for being lower than the stated value etc. This is why energy management and picking your fight at the right altitude works

[...]

That effect now comes into effect more harshly at the echelons of altitude for your aircraft. You'll see this when you try to climb higher and higher in planes like the XF-90, no matter the speed you have when you start and if you wait and hold on etc, the altitude ceiling for optimum performance on your plane soon kicks in and will have an effect. Interestingly, planes like the J8M suffer less from this because of the fact it's a rocket booster rather than jet engine.

That's exactly (one of) the problem(s) in 2.0 in my eyes. There is no real energy problem anymore despite you go over opt. alt. Partly planes climb at 20-30° without needing boost not to lose speed/energy. Additionally a simple turn downwards is enough for fighters now to reach the "yellow" speed-sector. After that you can stay there with some boost thruts (in addition with fast recovering boosts; and the non-existence of boost-recover-punishment for using all your boost). The energy principle shifted from "it's enough being higher" to "know the optimum altitude and speed of the enemies". Which (in my eyes) is much more difficult as you need one hell of a basic knowledge and the perfect angle etc.

eekeeboo, on 10 June 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

 Interestingly, planes like the J8M suffer less from this because of the fact it's a rocket booster rather than jet engine.

Same as before. J8M was and is a beast when it's up to pure climbing.

 

eekeeboo, on 10 June 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

The big thing is that people see the game as no challenge because of a chance to respawn. There is nothing to stop you from challenging yourself to not die, it's what I do. The difference being is you will not be punished for sacrificing yourself or risking something now. You won't be punished for being that person who takes out a free roaming GAA and though you will win before your xp gain etc would be detrimental for it. As for tactical aspect, it may not be "needed" for some, but it's a feature that enriches a pvp/team game in my opinion. Many other games have it, I see no detriment to having it in WoWP.

Wrong, it's still a challenge! But the game-shifting impact by taking out planes tactical got a bit lost in favor for "team-play". Don't get me wrong: 1.X as 2.0 both need a good team, but now the impact is way less a game-changer (e.g. this battle: http://www.bilder-up...-1528656814.jpg http://www.bilder-up...1528656944.jpg  I lost.). What I wanna say is: it's not the respawn of myself (my own fault), it's the respawn of the shot-down-plane (game-mode) that makes the difference.

For sure other games have the respawn mechanic, but it was one major aspect for years now. Around this mechanic a playerbase grew.

I was writing under a QnA that it's a fault not to introduce the old mode. It's a radical change of system that had been implemented in 2.0. We are not talking of "i like it" or "i don't like it" it's a question of "grown structures". WG wanted to open their game for a new playerbase (at least I do believe that). That's ok. But I am truly dissappointed that the small but willing base of 0.X and 1.X lovers got their lobby "taken away" within WG.

I will play this game (simply cause I fell in love with the game and y'all). Doesn't matter if conquest or team-death-match. But I would like to see the 2nd one at least on regular event-weekends rather then the other experiments.

 

greetings,

BiBa

 

PS.: don't mark me now as a 2.0 hater. Cause I am not, I want to see player numbers like they were 0.X. But the way it is now, it isn't at 100%.

 

Edited by BiBaBummsebiene, 10 June 2018 - 07:22 PM.

[Horcan]

I , as i like 2.0 more than 1.9, wont mind if they come up with a deathmatch(1.9) mode. A long as they dont enforce in on everyone like they did with this invasion/attrition events and let everyone pick what they want to play during weekends. Since i cant play for top 10 there is no point to play more than enough for 350 gold. After that i am forced to wait till weekend is over because all my 3 missions are completed for tiers 1-4.

[eekeeboo]

jakub_czyli_ja, on 10 June 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

 

 

The planes where stats were changed were stated, in general those of altitude performance on Multi roles, no longer a large penalty for same calibre gun upgrades etc. The stats are there for yourself to compare and contrast. 

 

Energy loss in a maneuver isn't exactly a hidden stat.... you turn tight you will lose speed, this is a fundamental principle of physics. The more you want to turn the more speed you have to sacrifice until you get to a stage where your momentum is no longer sufficient to keep you in the air. The F2G energy retention in optimum altitude is fantastic. You climb outside of that, usually 1.5 altitude and you're going to have a bad time. 

 

BiBaBummsebiene, on 10 June 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

 

 

Not much to add to your reasoning so far, will add as I go before I forget; the energy retention and ability to use it well is actually hugely more impactful now than before. If you use your altitude and energy right you can outturn most fighters at tier 7 in a meteor, whereas before you were doomed. There is a huge impact on the difference between choosing to vertical turn and horizontal turn your aircraft. Making sure you bait your enemy into turning how you want, dragging them up or down to your play ground and not theirs. A lot of people I see get lured into "just a little more" and over commit and lose the advantage. 

 

You can't win every game, but if you can rofl carry hard enough, you can single handedly carry. From baiting the enemy from sectors and letting your bots attack. GAA stomping sectors and pre-emptive capping. There are lots of tricks you can do to really influence a battle, they won't always work, sometimes the person on the enemy team has the RNG favour and you did not sacrifice enough tea and crumpets for better luck. 

 

I don't assume you as a 2.0 hater it's nice to have a discussion, share opinions and ideas in an adult manner. Not everything has to be about being right or wrong, calling people names etc. Sharing of 2 good ideas alone can sometimes make a fantastic idea when combined. 

 

Horcan, on 10 June 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

 

 

My personal desire would be if they introduced a "ranked mode" whereby the deathmatch mode was a game mode occasionally brought in encouraging you to test your skills against other or others. The problem being is how to do this without splitting the player base, how to allow for every plane class, what size teams do you want, how do you measure the winners etc. Lots of questions to ask and consider. But here's hoping!