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Concerns about Matchmaker

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jnishar #41 Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:42 AM

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View PostHorcan, on 04 June 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

 

Yes, i already mentioned that several times here on the forum. 1,5 minutes is enough for me to figure out its a one sided game, and since i only play for tokens, when i have dailies that require a win , i just dont play unbalanced games. I didnt quit a single game during the attrition event since only PP mattered, nor when i have normal dailies that only needed grind. But in those cases you may see me hunting planes with GAA or shooting my bombs and rockets from a multi/fighter at ground targets, depending on my missions.

 

that is simply not allways the case. ive been in matches were i also, in the 2 minute wrote, "this is a lose" "cap stuff!" . and then all of a sudden, stuff is capped and we win.. since then i never claim a loss . Stuff CAN turn around you know :)   and if youre in a fighter and bots suddenly capped alot, then you have a big part in holding them. (well atleast one).. 
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Horcan #42 Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:48 AM

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Yes i had such games too, but they are exceptions, very rare. And since i no longer play this game for fun , wasting hours on games that have very high chance of ending in defeat its not going to happen anymore , considering my limited time for WoWp. If they want me in games, they better fix this matchmaker, disable flights( or keep them in queue until they find an even match )and overall put humans on same tiers and plane types. As for the fair play, most of the games are 1v1 2v2, not many around to mind me quitting games. Especially most of the games im better than the other humans in my team, and their poor performance is why i quit in the first place.
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eekeeboo #43 Posted 05 June 2018 - 01:54 PM

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The biggest advice I can give is to be proactive in your game. I've won games before with 1/4 the points of the enemy, by staying out of trouble then wiping out the enemy team at squall line. For me embracing those challenges are what made me better at the game. I know some will say that's not why they play this game, even a PvP game designed to challenge you. But if you want to win, you have to expect to put work in, not be provided your xp and credits in an all you can eat buffet without having pay. 

 

View Postjnishar, on 05 June 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

 

that is simply not allways the case. ive been in matches were i also, in the 2 minute wrote, "this is a lose" "cap stuff!" . and then all of a sudden, stuff is capped and we win.. since then i never claim a loss . Stuff CAN turn around you know :)   and if youre in a fighter and bots suddenly capped alot, then you have a big part in holding them. (well atleast one).. 

 

This is the key, your statements weren't in defeat, you may have said "this is a lose" but you then tried (whether effectively or not) to encourage your team to cap something. You continued to try and win the game, not just give in and quit the game. As you say, games can turn around if you're willing to try. Unfortunately some are unwilling to take that initiative or onus to improve not only themselves but those around them. 

Horcan #44 Posted 05 June 2018 - 04:25 PM

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I can at least provide some screenshots with streaks of 7-8 defeats in a row when i did that, tried, and finished first in my team to no avail. I still do , but whenever the glass fills , i just rage at some 4th 5th games in a row thats goes the same and just plain simply quit. Like i said, especially when i have 3 dailies that have win as requirement. Actually if you look on previous page of this topic, there are 3 games that i finished and you can see my score. This positive attitude doesnt mean everything is great and they should not fix the freaking matchmaker with the flight vs no flight or uneven human distribution since as i see it is a damn frustrating thing and one of the reasons people quit playing this game.
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eekeeboo #45 Posted 05 June 2018 - 07:44 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 05 June 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

I can at least provide some screenshots with streaks of 7-8 defeats in a row when i did that, tried, and finished first in my team to no avail. I still do , but whenever the glass fills , i just rage at some 4th 5th games in a row thats goes the same and just plain simply quit. Like i said, especially when i have 3 dailies that have win as requirement. Actually if you look on previous page of this topic, there are 3 games that i finished and you can see my score. This positive attitude doesnt mean everything is great and they should not fix the freaking matchmaker with the flight vs no flight or uneven human distribution since as i see it is a damn frustrating thing and one of the reasons people quit playing this game.

 

But you would hope after 7-8 defeats you learned to read the map, or adapt to be able to encourage and bring out a win. As I have said, when against all odds and you're being hammered, wait until squall line, make sure you keep 1 base then go for elimination and wiping out the enemy team. The problem as far as I can see is that you don't want to win, you don't want to fight, you just want to earn. In that instance there's very little I or others can help you with as you are trying to achieve an objective the game mechanics weren't designed for. 

 

One could say another reason people quit playing is because someone on their team insults them then rage quits the game. I can see how that person would not be inclined to keep playing the game. 



Horcan #46 Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:11 PM

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Most of the games i talk about i have better rank much better score than anybody in both teams. So dont tell me i dont do what im supposed to do. I know you have to defend the game now but stop treating me like im an idiot that started playing yesterday. Im probably one of the few here that consider 2.0 better than 1.9. If you want me gone np. Coming here seems pointless anyway.

Edited by Horcan, 05 June 2018 - 08:12 PM.

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eekeeboo #47 Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:17 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 05 June 2018 - 08:11 PM, said:

Most of the games i talk about i have better rank much better score than anybody in both teams. So dont tell me i dont do what im supposed to do. I know you have to defend the game now but stop treating me like im an idiot that started playing yesterday. Im probably one of the few here that consider 2.0 better than 1.9. If you want me gone np. Coming here seems pointless anyway.

 

I am not preventing you from coming or going. But toxicity for whatever reason isn't tolerated in the game. You cannot say you type in the game "this is a loss" and quit anyway, but claim to have this community or the game's best interest at heart. You cannot further claim this when you yourself have admitted you don't play this game for the game, but to get tokens and rewards for other games. This is absolutely fine, but perhaps the feedback you provide should be to better the game not the rewards you want to receive. 

Horcan #48 Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:25 PM

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And i did that for a long time , especially to fix the MM from making games flight vs no flight, or humans with different tiers and plane types. I dont play the game for the game because i dont find it entertaining anymore. An online game should be pvp under fair conditions, i dont play this to prove myself im better than some bots. Nor do i enjoy fighting game after game alone vs a flight that probably comunicate on voice chat and stick together.Toxicity come because im fed up with nothing coming from the devs. Probably is better to do like many others, just play for what i care or just quitting.

Edited by Horcan, 05 June 2018 - 08:27 PM.

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eekeeboo #49 Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:53 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 05 June 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

And i did that for a long time , especially to fix the MM from making games flight vs no flight, or humans with different tiers and plane types. I dont play the game for the game because i dont find it entertaining anymore. An online game should be pvp under fair conditions, i dont play this to prove myself im better than some bots. Nor do i enjoy fighting game after game alone vs a flight that probably comunicate on voice chat and stick together.Toxicity come because im fed up with nothing coming from the devs. Probably is better to do like many others, just play for what i care or just quitting.

 

It is unfortunate you feel this way about the MM, but as others have said, in terms of WG games, the MM in planes is probably the most forgiving and fairest out of all of them. The least bit because +/-1 tier MM and you have the same plane class numbers for each side. You also only have 2 man flights instead of 3, You will have the same bot AI levels as the enemy. The only thing different is your skill vs that of the enemy team. You don't have to get better, that is a personal choice, but it helps mitigate a significant amount of the grievance you have with the MM. 

Horcan #50 Posted 05 June 2018 - 09:03 PM

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+-1 is good thing, but same plane class on both teams means nothing if one team have 2 bombers and the other have 2 HF. I know toxic people call others bots, but for what i think, a human is never equal a bot, not even if is veteran level. I dont consider myself a good player and probably for what i invest in this game ( time spent wise ) this is the best i will ever get. Yet most of the games i finish on top 5, with maybe more than 50% of the games i play finish as number 1 ( a lot of this from both teams ). And what do you mean by better, is there a way to teleport around in this game and i dont know about it?

And are you even aware that those one sided games finish way before that stupid squall line ( which encourage you to suicide ).Attrition was good at least for that, that there was no squall line.

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Take this example: I in P-36 im matched with a human Bristol which i totally outclass.

Our SKua matched with an I-16 , relatively both sucked so not much influence.

Then THey get BF-110 matched with our Bsh-2.

So tell me, what i should have done better? Trying to chase the heavy in stratosphere? What chance someone have in a fighter against this odds? When a good player playing a HF have no opposition on the other team?

Even the bot bombers ( which i killed each once ) scored better than both of our bot bombers.How do you expect people to not say this game is rigged and some games are just lost before they start.


Edited by Horcan, 05 June 2018 - 10:46 PM.

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eekeeboo #51 Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:17 AM

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View PostHorcan, on 05 June 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

 

There should always be the same number of LF, MR, HF, GAA and Bombers on each team. Unless you meant which are controlled by bots and which are controlled by humans? 

 

In terms of bot skills, this is a debated topic where many people said the bots were too strong and the AI resulted in behavior like focusing a singular target, sometimes you, until it was dead. On the other side you will never see a bot heavy fighter ground attacking, or a ground attacking bot dog-fighting. In this regard I prefer bots as they are more reliable and will perform the job they are meant to. This lets me focus on doing the job I'm meant to, this allows me to focus on controlling certain sectors, getting myself in trouble and baiting the enemy team away from key sectors etc. There are plenty of actions you can take. 

 

The screenshots you show, though I can see your perspective, there is another. How do you know one of the GAA wasn't stock? As well as other planes. I know one member on your team who will be trying to get his token missions done thus possibly not focusing on playing for the win. And this is where I say playing just for tokens, if they don't require you to win, leads to counter-productive approach in winning the battle. 


Edited by eekeeboo, 06 June 2018 - 08:17 AM.


Horcan #52 Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 06 June 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

There should always be the same number of LF, MR, HF, GAA and Bombers on each team. Unless you meant which are controlled by bots and which are controlled by humans? 

 

In terms of bot skills, this is a debated topic where many people said the bots were too strong and the AI resulted in behavior like focusing a singular target, sometimes you, until it was dead. On the other side you will never see a bot heavy fighter ground attacking, or a ground attacking bot dog-fighting. In this regard I prefer bots as they are more reliable and will perform the job they are meant to. This lets me focus on doing the job I'm meant to, this allows me to focus on controlling certain sectors, getting myself in trouble and baiting the enemy team away from key sectors etc. There are plenty of actions you can take. 

 

The screenshots you show, though I can see your perspective, there is another. How do you know one of the GAA wasn't stock? As well as other planes. I know one member on your team who will be trying to get his token missions done thus possibly not focusing on playing for the win. And this is where I say playing just for tokens, if they don't require you to win, leads to counter-productive approach in winning the battle. 

 

Yes they are too strong, when they engage some human player , if they are set to be that strong. As in you will never see 99% of the humans  spam that evasive maneouvers ( even on low skill levels of bots ) nor shoot with the accuracy the bots do when they are set to ( or vs who they are set to ). And no matter how high skill a bot is , you will never see a bot scoring 15k+ points like a human is in a heavy fighter. So the moment MM creates a game where a good human is top tier and have no human opposite that can match him, its a game lost from the start, no matter is someone is playing for tokens like me or whatever stupid reason you try to give for a game being lost by one of the teams.And just cause i play for tokens not necesarely means i wasnt playing for the win. But explain to me ( as you are clearly better player than me ) what was i supposed to do to defeat that guy in that particular game? I capped bases, i defended bases , i killed bombers one time each, i even killed that human HF once. Still i couldnt match him since my plane is way underpowered and slower than his. He actually had nobody in my team to counter him, since the bot that was his match god knows what it was doing and scored like 3 points.
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eekeeboo #53 Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:32 AM

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View PostHorcan, on 06 June 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

 

 

Without being in the game, advice I provide is after the fact. This is why the invitation to grab me in game when you see me and I'll go through what I can to help illustrate a few tricks on map control. 

 

For instance, I cannot see the exact map lay-out. Did you try to control both command centers to distract the enemy bots to the point where you only needed to worry about the remaining few. It also forces attacks to be focused on less vital sectors. Meaning when you finally lose the command center your remaining forces can then all focus on the 1 remaining uncapped. As I said without being there in game to see how it unfolded, I can't help give you advice for that battle, but my offer of help is genuine and stands for you and others when I can. 



GonerNL #54 Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:57 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 06 June 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

There should always be the same number of LF, MR, HF, GAA and Bombers on each team.

 

Number of plane type is unimportant ; it's how good/smart the people or bots flying them are.

And that is where the main difference - disparity really -  is between teams ... there really are battles that are decided in minutes. While my bots [edited]around the garrison, I try to take the missile base. The enemy (bots) takes 4 bases in that time and then come to take the one I managed to cap. And all that time my bots are flying circles or chasing planes and bomber streams around the map. It's so frustrating ... in 1-vs-1 games I just quit lately ; my team of bots won't care and the enemy player wins anyway. No harm done and I don't have to suffer the 2 minutes of air superiority.

 


Edited by GonerNL, 07 June 2018 - 01:59 PM.


eekeeboo #55 Posted 07 June 2018 - 02:18 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 07 June 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

 

My point was in response to someone saying that "but same plane class on both teams means nothing if one team have 2 bombers and the other have 2 HF". I have said the only imbalance right now is if you have a player in a GAA on one team and a player in a HF in the other team. Apart from getting more players in the queue at the same time, there's little you can do to fix that unless you want to go back to the days of 15 minute queues? As it stands right now for some the bots are far from perfect, personally I prefer bots over teammates who ground attack in their P51s or having to wait over an hour for a tier 10 GAA battle. 

Horcan #56 Posted 07 June 2018 - 03:50 PM

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We know what causes these kind of games, but still I would expect some sort of message displayed stating that there are not enough players to create a game, and a confirmation to be clicked if i want to go into such unfair game alone vs a flight or vs a player with bigger tier and different class. I somehow find wrong to forceably take someone into such game without his ok. In this case why not put both players in the same team vs full bots? Im sure bots wont mind. if its a fighter vs a heavy that go to stratosphere each one will most likely hunt bots anyway, rather than fight each other. SO instead of competing each other who can kill more bots faster, better put them in same team.That way i can farm my tokens without spewing my venom on the chat at the 2 guys platooning in two op planes.

Edited by Horcan, 07 June 2018 - 03:53 PM.

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eekeeboo #57 Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:04 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 07 June 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

We know what causes these kind of games, but still I would expect some sort of message displayed stating that there are not enough players to create a game, and a confirmation to be clicked if i want to go into such unfair game alone vs a flight or vs a player with bigger tier and different class. I somehow find wrong to forceably take someone into such game without his ok. In this case why not put both players in the same team vs full bots? Im sure bots wont mind. if its a fighter vs a heavy that go to stratosphere each one will most likely hunt bots anyway, rather than fight each other. SO instead of competing each other who can kill more bots faster, better put them in same team.That way i can farm my tokens without spewing my venom on the chat at the 2 guys platooning in two op planes.

 

That is why there is a message at the start saying "most people are playing at tier (insert)" I know someone like myself would become rather aggravated at having to click OK every time. You and the MM isn't going to know if it's unfair as MM doesn't take into account skill or the upgrade stage of your plane and if you use gold consumables. At what stage do you stop considering factors that makes a game unfair? 

 

Player vs bots only can break things like winrates and statistics to measure balancing etc. For instance during the event where you chose a side and every day people chose allies? Winrates went up on average 10-20% per person who played every day. People complain about playing with as many bots as they do now, imagine if there were more options for that, splitting the queue times and player base further. 

 

But there's nothing to stop you posting it in the suggestions for the developers?

 



Horcan #58 Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:59 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 07 June 2018 - 05:04 PM, said:

 

That is why there is a message at the start saying "most people are playing at tier (insert)" I know someone like myself would become rather aggravated at having to click OK every time. You and the MM isn't going to know if it's unfair as MM doesn't take into account skill or the upgrade stage of your plane and if you use gold consumables. At what stage do you stop considering factors that makes a game unfair? 

 

Player vs bots only can break things like winrates and statistics to measure balancing etc. For instance during the event where you chose a side and every day people chose allies? Winrates went up on average 10-20% per person who played every day. People complain about playing with as many bots as they do now, imagine if there were more options for that, splitting the queue times and player base further. 

 

But there's nothing to stop you posting it in the suggestions for the developers?

 

 

That is the same kind of solving you give to me like you gave that guy telling him to sell his planes to speed up hangar laoding. Why should i play at tier 2-3 if i want to play at tier 5-6? And what is WR meaning in a game with 3k players? Remove the whole statistics alltogether and let people play for fun, you can make game vs bots like that not adding to apparently so important balancing of who is under 50% WR and who is above. Isnt sealclubbing at tier 1 or playing in a flight of OP planes having 95% WR braking those statistics too? I understand WR in a game like WoT where all players are human, but in this game, WR against who, Frantz, Ferdinand, Yuri , Anatolyi? WHy not making statistics for them too. Like how many times they won a game for a complete noob vs a guy who finished with max. rank.

Edited by Horcan, 07 June 2018 - 05:01 PM.

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BravelyRanAway #59 Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:11 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 07 June 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

 you can make game vs bots like that not adding to apparently so important balancing of who is under 50% WR and who is above. Isnt sealclubbing at tier 1 or playing in a flight of OP planes having 95% WR braking those statistics too? I understand WR in a game like WoT where all players are human, but in this game, WR against who, Frantz, Ferdinand, Yuri , Anatolyi? WHy not making statistics for them too. Like how many times they won a game for a complete noob vs a guy who finished with max. rank.

Do you actually want a skill based MM?

About the sealclubbing.....do you have the ability to tell from looking at someones profile whether they are a sealclubber or not, and if so, why do you still care?


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Horcan #60 Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:32 PM

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I dont care. But apparently our CM care, since he rather see an unbalanced game of 1v1 instead of 2vbots because of why break WR balance in a dead game.
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