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_Desper #141 Posted 29 August 2018 - 03:56 PM

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View PostNatteFrost, on 29 August 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

 

grind to t9 or t10. there are just 2-4 humans there out of a 12 player team and pure t10s games are rare cuz not enugh players que their t10s.

 

2-4 players in T9-10? That's really rare most common are 1v1, 1v 2flight, 1 tier 8 vs 1 tier 9. We just don't have ppl who would make it into high tiers. I brought friend into WoWP, he stopped at tier 5 as it was pure boredom. At tier 5 you play on maps for high tiers, it takes ages to get somewhere to make two kills and next one minute of flying elsewhere. Even the WoWS have more action and they are extremely slow game play. I play only high tiers, I can't stand low tiers they just hang in the air and not moving and shooting 5 seconds to kill a plane isn't fun at all. So imo something should be done in low and middle tiers.  

 

I tryied WoWS, they have 30k ppl online and I wonder why? WoWP is so much better, even the 2.0 so why they have 100x more players? 

 

There is still no end game, no clan wars, no second mode, nothing. You made it into tier X and then you enjoy 2-5 minutes queues for 1v1 battles. That's not end game, that's chore. There is no reason anyone would grind weeks for this. 

 

If you compare it to Warthunder they face same problem at top tiers, they lack players, there are long queues for high tiers, but still there are 3 mods + event mods + some pve mode. WT devs are not so clever, they didn't add any new content in several years for planes, that game is very stale and loosing players a lot. Their main modes arcade, real, simulation are still same and on the same maps like in closed beta at 2012. Their devs focused on tanks and then ships, the planes are abandoned child so WoWP has a chance to be better game. At the moment they have 52k players online for tanks and planes world wide EU, RU, US. They are not doing well, I remember 100k players online only for planes several years ago. I stopped playing WT due to huge queue times for jets longer time ago and it's not getting any better now. 

 

Conclusion is WoWP needs something new, something much better then Conquest. It needs fix the bugs and fps then focus on adding more content and promotion. It also needs to get more devs, because at this tempo we would see any reasonable changes maybe at 2025. 


Edited by _Desper, 29 August 2018 - 04:05 PM.


_Desper #142 Posted 29 August 2018 - 04:18 PM

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View PostHal_Leuco, on 28 August 2018 - 07:24 PM, said:

WG please take a look at the matchmaker of Total War Arena. They split PvP and PvE, also "non-bots" and "only bots".

 

For the people, who want pure PvP play, please make an option "non-bots" for their matchmaker-settings. I know the time to find a match with 15 vs 15 human is maybe terrible long but it's their choice and they can wait for it.

For PvE-players like me, I like to play only vs bots so there should be an option "only bots" in the settings.

I think this addition will be helpful and satisfy many players. 

 

I don't think this is good idea in TWA. I played pvp then I found pve and was too lazy to ever go back to pvp for much harder battles. I only played two days, I didn't like it.

 

Another example would be Armored Warfare. They have pure pve mode which majority prefered, it was like turkey shooting, which makes pvp to die and then the whole game died. I really liked that game, I don't even want to tell how much I invested there as I was very hyped and felt in love with modern tanks. I never seen longer queues for pvp in any game I played. I am done with them, they have spyware in the launcher. 

 

Anyway pure pve mode is not option in pvp oriented game, it only kill the pvp then slowly die anyway, because pve has not enough depth to be fun for long. 

 

It's same with WoWP which is so much more fun with at least 6v6 players + bots. I am pretty bored to play those 1v1 at high tiers all the time. I stopped play at bad hours but I can get 1v1 even at prime time. 



Horcan #143 Posted 29 August 2018 - 11:10 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 29 August 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

 

There's a difference between seeing the point of view and agreeing with that point of view. If this game truly worked the way you misspercieve it to... then people would not have the consistently high winrates that they do and effectively influence the battle so effectively the way they do. Scoring a million points is useless if you're doing it in their spawn and 1 bot caps the whole map. 

 

Exactly what i already said , you just circle and avoid the problem im talking about. Even if i would be camping their spawn, it means they are not going anywhere, and my bots should be unhindered to grab the whole map, since the enemy human is out of the game. Its not normal that the few bots that escape me to be better than my whole team, if i would be to take your word , that bots are equal level. If that one bot you say would cap the map, there should be one in my team too. And we are pissed about it because we expect this to be a pvp game , not pvbots. Im better than the enemy humans i expect to win, im competing with them , not the bots. Cause if it was like that , just have a pve mode and put all the humans in the same team. Most of the games are bad anyway, with seriously unbalanced humans on the sides and end in 5-0 0-5 , or people quitting after 1 minute ( and its not only me, i saw many people doing it ) when they realise the game is lost anyway because its too unbalanced.
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bug #144 Posted 30 August 2018 - 12:15 AM

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When on a 1 vs 1 player battles (or 2 vs 2), rest are bots. Is it only me, or have others noticed that the better you play, the worse your bots become?

On rounds where I early get the upper hand by capping and kills, and will win rather clearly, the bots start "sabotaging" by plying real bad. Often nearly capped bases have to be recapped because bots crash into ground, or circle in aa without doing anything but dying.

Dont know how many lost rounds where I have double the score as my best bot, and player on other team has less than his best bot.

I am getting paranoid of this, lol.



Cruditatem #145 Posted 30 August 2018 - 05:29 AM

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View Postbug, on 30 August 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

When on a 1 vs 1 player battles (or 2 vs 2), rest are bots. Is it only me, or have others noticed that the better you play, the worse your bots become?

On rounds where I early get the upper hand by capping and kills, and will win rather clearly, the bots start "sabotaging" by plying real bad. Often nearly capped bases have to be recapped because bots crash into ground, or circle in aa without doing anything but dying.

Dont know how many lost rounds where I have double the score as my best bot, and player on other team has less than his best bot.

I am getting paranoid of this, lol.

 

Yup. if you lead, the other bots go often in Superman Mode and the own gettin drunk...then u lose with 12000+, while the other has 4500. 

 



Tempelhof__ #146 Posted 30 August 2018 - 07:12 AM

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View PostCruditatem, on 30 August 2018 - 05:29 AM, said:

Yup. if you lead, the other bots go often in Superman Mode and the own gettin drunk...then u lose with 12000+, while the other has 4500. 

Leading does not mean you make a lot of damage, it depends how many and which sectors you own and be able to hold.

From my experience there are some Sectors having more effect than others.

A lot of human players believe taking an airfield/airstrip is the key to win - thats wrong.

In my opinion the Rocketbase and the Commandcenter are the Keys to win a game, as these are "active" Sectors.

A Commandcenter sends Bomber Squads every ... (dont remind the exact time) seconds that bomb enemy bases (not neutral ones) once they get there and they drag Bot Fighters/Bot Heavys away (sometimes even Human players) from capping other sectors.

A Rocketbase attacks enemy and neutral Sectors with a rocket every ... seconds.

On the minimap you can see which sectors are under attack by those Bomber Squads/Rockets, if you are clever enough to support these attacks by yourself, it should be easy to quickly cap a sector.

An Airfield/Garrison are a bonus to have/cap.

Of course it depends much on the Map Design, but in my opinion Commandcenter/Rocketbase always gives your team an advantage.

Edit:

Time is another key, be fast with capping: 

As a GAA shoot down the "big hard" Targets first to cap the sector fast. A rocketbase for example has a big hard target in the center, i experienced with German Tier X GAA i dropped all 4 Bombs there and the sector switched immidiately.

If in a Fighter/Multirole, try to shoot down the neutral Heavys first. There are often 2 Heavys + 3 Fighters that protect a sector. Shooting both Heavys + 1 Fighter switches it over to you. In case you fight against the red team in a neutral sector, focus red planes instead of neutral ones. Shooting a red plane gives you more capture points as a neutral one. 


Edited by 0berhessen, 30 August 2018 - 07:25 AM.

There is an art to flying, or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ... Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, that presents the difficulties (Douglas Adams - Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)

bug #147 Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:11 AM

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View Post0berhessen, on 30 August 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

Leading does not mean you make a lot of damage, it depends how many and which sectors you own and be able to hold.

From my experience there are some Sectors having more effect than others.

A lot of human players believe taking an airfield/airstrip is the key to win - thats wrong.

In my opinion the Rocketbase and the Commandcenter are the Keys to win a game, as these are "active" Sectors.

A Commandcenter sends Bomber Squads every ... (dont remind the exact time) seconds that bomb enemy bases (not neutral ones) once they get there and they drag Bot Fighters/Bot Heavys away (sometimes even Human players) from capping other sectors.

A Rocketbase attacks enemy and neutral Sectors with a rocket every ... seconds.

On the minimap you can see which sectors are under attack by those Bomber Squads/Rockets, if you are clever enough to support these attacks by yourself, it should be easy to quickly cap a sector.

An Airfield/Garrison are a bonus to have/cap.

Of course it depends much on the Map Design, but in my opinion Commandcenter/Rocketbase always gives your team an advantage.

Edit:

Time is another key, be fast with capping: 

As a GAA shoot down the "big hard" Targets first to cap the sector fast. A rocketbase for example has a big hard target in the center, i experienced with German Tier X GAA i dropped all 4 Bombs there and the sector switched immidiately.

If in a Fighter/Multirole, try to shoot down the neutral Heavys first. There are often 2 Heavys + 3 Fighters that protect a sector. Shooting both Heavys + 1 Fighter switches it over to you. In case you fight against the red team in a neutral sector, focus red planes instead of neutral ones. Shooting a red plane gives you more capture points as a neutral one. 

 

Absolutely. Many players seem to prefer going to any kind of airport if map has it. My ranking of bases are in order: Military Base, Command Center then Plant, Barracks and Airbases comes last on my list. Even in fighters I follow this list, even if map only have plant that has no planes to kill, I often cap it with fighter killing enemy GA, bombers and bots.

Horcan #148 Posted 30 August 2018 - 10:50 AM

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ITs everyones tactic and have its pro and cons. Airfields are usually very easy to capture, they dont have many armored targets, and more importantly, you can get it by only shooting defense planes. CC if im not mistaken, doesnt flip if you only kill the resident defender bots ( not the ones that are in enemy team ) , you also need someone to get some ground targets. If somehow you fail to capture it fast ( sometime you are shredded by AA/those pesky heavy fighters, or enemy attack that same base as you and you need to dogfight ), having such airfield captured nearby might save you to travel again from the original spawn point all over again when you respawn.
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eekeeboo #149 Posted 30 August 2018 - 01:44 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 29 August 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

 

 

I'm not avoiding the problem you state. You are blaming bots for perpetual losses based on your personal performance. I am pointing out until replays are provided to demonstrate this, it doesn't matter how many points you score, it's where and when. The bots are level, the aircraft the bots are in, are not. I've said this before. If your Expert bot is in a GAA for instance this may not help you win if the enemy is focusing it, whereas if the enemy expert bot is a heavy and you're in the GAA, there's a chance the bot will have a better time. 

 

Even with that, an expert bot in a reliable plane like a spitfire or in a sniping plane like Ta152 they will usually let you know. More so than an expert bot in something like a J7W1 that will definitely hurt you, but will be close range engagement. Bots are equal level, the way they are assigned to aircraft is not, because right now you get 1v1 games, 1 player in a GAA on team A and 1 player in a heavy on Team B. This skewes the aircraft they're assigned to. I've explained this to you previously too. 

 

Now when you add the way different maps are more suitable for certain aircraft than others, certain people do better in certain planes. If you don't react and help protect your bots, then they are not going to be able to help you win the game. 

 

If you don't want bots, then that is something you will not get until there are more players. The queue times in the game were simply FAR too long without bots. People like myself generally like bots because I can rely on bots far more than I can rely on players. 

 

If you're quitting so soon into a game, then you never learn to drag a victory from defeat. I suggest you practice this skill it will help you in the long run. All of this I've explained to you before. Bots are predictable. 

 

View Postbug, on 30 August 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

 

 

By "better you play" it depends. It's a simple fact of... the more you kill, the less there is for bots to kill. The more GT you destroy... the less there are for bots to destroy. The bots will usually be low hp or "fatigued" through combat by the time they finally reach the objective you haven't captured yet. Depending how far into the battle you are, bots don't look at their hp and decide it's a bad idea to not try solo capping a sector. They are programmed to simply see.... sector not capped, let's go! 

 

This is why I will usually help my bots because the more hp they can carry into the next engagement the less likely they are to die at the most inopportune time! 

View Post0berhessen, on 30 August 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

 

 

Like you mention here, controlling sectors with lots of AA and ADA will make your bots lives easier because they're less likely to be annihilated when attacking it. Sectors that apply constant pressure like a military base or distract the enemy like command centers can effectively give you actions equivalent of 2-5 more bots for your team. 

 

Many people over-look this. Airfields are important, but they should only take priority when you need to distract enemy command center bombers or military base. 

 



Horcan #150 Posted 30 August 2018 - 02:24 PM

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Im blaming the bots for what i said. That they are influencing the result which should be more a matter between the humans. Sometimes youre playing a plane that is not that fast to allow you to move easy from base to base, or its not fit to attack some certain sector. I said before that i have limited time for this game, so until something ( i guess never ) is done about removing the win condition and the "coincidence" that you get 4-5 maps in a row without an airport when you have a mission asking you to do something above one, i will sometimes quit games early when its obvious after 2 minutes that is a lost game ( im not wasting 5 minutes for a minuscule hope that i can turn next to impossible odds  ), or when i need a certain base and too many games in a row i dont get it ( a little rarely since specialist missions, usually those can be done on any maps ).
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eekeeboo #151 Posted 30 August 2018 - 02:32 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 30 August 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

 

But AA guns influence your results in the same way. The thing you need to do is to try and have a bigger influence. If you are unwilling to play the game to the completion and learn to adapt to the losses you will never learn to over-come these issues. Furthermore you will only increase the reports you receive for abandoning games. 

Siagor #152 Posted 30 August 2018 - 02:35 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 30 August 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

... I said before that i have limited time for this game, so until something ( i guess never ) is done about removing the win condition and the "coincidence" that you get 4-5 maps in a row without an airport when you have a mission asking you to do something above one, i will sometimes quit games early when its obvious after 2 minutes that is a lost game ( im not wasting 5 minutes for a minuscule hope that i can turn next to impossible odds  ), or when i need a certain base and too many games in a row i dont get it ( a little rarely since specialist missions, usually those can be done on any maps ).

 

Again, the "win only" brings the most frustration in the current game. Again "first 3 last 3" or even "first 1 last 1" should be the key.

 

Eeekeeboo, I try to comment like this only once with one player to show how widespread this problem is. Please take note, formulate something and send upstairs when appropriate. Thank you!



eekeeboo #153 Posted 30 August 2018 - 02:58 PM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 30 August 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

 

 

First 3 and last 3 isn't the best option either. First 3 in what? This will encourage some people to play even more for personal points and not for the win on the team. It's frustrating but at least the win is a common goal, personal points are more selfish and can lead to VERY selfish gameplay. 

Siagor #154 Posted 30 August 2018 - 03:10 PM

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There's a win/loss percentage for that.

 

(and speaking of 3-3 i would rather opt for 1:1 or even a total removal of "win only" condition)



Horcan #155 Posted 30 August 2018 - 03:46 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 30 August 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

 

But AA guns influence your results in the same way. The thing you need to do is to try and have a bigger influence. If you are unwilling to play the game to the completion and learn to adapt to the losses you will never learn to over-come these issues. Furthermore you will only increase the reports you receive for abandoning games. 

 

And who would report me if its a 1v1, or a 3v3 where im top and the other two are last two worse than every bots? Like i said , i have limited time. At a win rate of 50% , half of my play time is just waste of time if win is a condition. So i rather limit this time by simply not play the games that are already lost, because i play alone versus 3 humans, two of which are even in a flight , while my humans are worse than apes. I can show you countless games where the enemy humans are first 3-4 in pp, while im alone, with my humans having less than 1000 points. Just give me a reason why i shouldnt quit those games.
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eekeeboo #156 Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:32 AM

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View PostHorcan, on 30 August 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

 

 

People no matter on skill level don't like teammates abandoning games, leaving games or even disconnecting. When  you spend your time earning a reputation as a quitter, it's not ideal. 

 

Leaving the second sentence alone for now. You can do more to help teammates, you can support them. I'm sure you can link me plenty of games you did well and teammates didn't. But I'm sure you also have games you didn't do as well, still won because of teammates or bots. 



Horcan #157 Posted 31 August 2018 - 09:13 AM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 31 August 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

People no matter on skill level don't like teammates abandoning games, leaving games or even disconnecting. When  you spend your time earning a reputation as a quitter, it's not ideal. 

 

Leaving the second sentence alone for now. You can do more to help teammates, you can support them. I'm sure you can link me plenty of games you did well and teammates didn't. But I'm sure you also have games you didn't do as well, still won because of teammates or bots. 

 

Which i wouldnt mind losing because i dont deserve to win. But when i do , i expect to win, not lose because bots wanted to.
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klbergmen #158 Posted 31 August 2018 - 10:16 AM

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I would report you, no matter if you give me an easy win. I think this should be really punished.

Maybe one way to reduce the pain is to give material also for losses. Then it makes more sense to continue even though it looks like a loss.

If you trow away probable losses then you will end up with less than 50% winrate because you increase the rate at which you loose.



houghtonbee #159 Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:40 PM

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just had a great game, 3 left on my attacking team, my spitfire 1a and two il-2s, one human one bot. i hold the last 2 enemies to the north of the map as long as i can before dying, gaas go to southern and last cap zone. our human engages ground targets and guess what the bot decides it'll fight? the sodding air defence planes which it cant hit or catch. we lose as time expires despite it taking over a minute for the two enemy players to get to the zone. so infuriating.

 

 

yet bot behaviour was 'improved' in the last update.



eekeeboo #160 Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:44 PM

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View Postklbergmen, on 31 August 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

 

This was put forward and was being looked into, this was mentioned in the FAQ thread i posted with answers to hop community concerns and topics. The trick is to make it so winning doesn't become pointless but also scoring for personal glory isn't the only thing you aim for in the game. 

 

View Posthoughtonbee, on 31 August 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

 

 

Can you submit a ticket or also put this on Discord please? I know this is a mild pain but GAA bots should only perform this action if it's for self defense and not actively do this. It may be a quirk that needs investigating. 





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