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Specialist configuration


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WilhelmII #1 Posted 11 September 2018 - 03:38 PM

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The way in which this is currently working is so unfair , so frustrating, so full of sh*t. and this is why

 

If you want to become a specialist in anything in life, whether it be academic, or a practical skill, in other words becoming good at something specific, is down to you and you alone, it has F**k all to do with the team or department you are in, this is an individual skill.

 

so for instance to achieve specialist configuration, you have to Kill 40 Defence Aircraft and 120 human flown Aircraft, so how long that takes is up to you honing your skill and the dogfight itself which is totally fair enough as to get the specialist configuration this is the requirement.

 

Where it is unfair is it all dependent on the team winning which has nothing to do at all with personal skills , so if like me today you have done 20 battles so far, being in the top (3), 95% of the time average kill rate of between 6-10, and the rub is, my kills have only counted in 2 battles because the team lost the other 18, how the hell is this fair.

 

It is bad enough being on the losing side that many times with the salt in the wounds of nothing counting toward the specialist, it is just so much of a moral killer it makes me think is any of this worth it, for what is specialist about it, they still go down as easy they have no real advantage , and in reality their planes are worse that what they were because of all the extra penalties of putting extra equipment on.

 

Or is it really just a case of WoWPs being happy with creating a lose lose configuration that was never needed, and before all this our planes were more power full

 

 

 

 



zen_monk_ #2 Posted 11 September 2018 - 03:50 PM

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The same can be said for win condition for materials.

 

"Win only" should stay only for winrate.


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Cruditatem #3 Posted 11 September 2018 - 04:40 PM

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It is also hard to have more than one human in enemie team .... lower the numbers of enemie kills if the player base is so low...

CheefCoach #4 Posted 11 September 2018 - 05:13 PM

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You don't need to kill human flown plane, you need to kill plane from other side combat team. So defensive bots and bombers from bomber flight (those 5 that are spawning by command centers) don't count. 

 

They are considering to remove win requirements for material and for specialist.


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zen_monk_ #5 Posted 11 September 2018 - 05:47 PM

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View PostCheefCoach, on 11 September 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

 

They are considering to remove win requirements for material and for specialist.

 

If so, I give my word in front of the whole forum, I will order you pizza and beer from your nearest shop if they accept Visa order from abroad.
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WilhelmII #6 Posted 11 September 2018 - 11:20 PM

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Gentlemen, this is exactly what I am talking about, how unfair the Specialist Configuration progression is, it being wrong to base advancement on the team winning when it is clear this should be down to personal achievement which should be the real grounds for progression to Specialist, under the present method you could be the Richthofen of the game but it will get you nowhere if a team of bots loses the battle.

 

But seriously 19 kills and not one counted toward advancing because of team loss, this is total soul destroying making you think is this really worth any effort when all is stacked against you.

 

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Edited by WilhelmII, 11 September 2018 - 11:41 PM.


Isoruku_Yamamoto #7 Posted 12 September 2018 - 07:38 AM

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Luckily there are only eight other threads about this. In fact, the issue is known with game dev also.

The current system is indeed more of a grind & playing on specialist only is often counterprodctive since itll make you lose quicker



klbergmen #8 Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:43 AM

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WoT has a Problem with stats padders and campers. They don't really help the team, even though they might do much damage and kills.

If you remove the win condition then you will see more similar problems here. People will not try to win anymore and will only go for their personal goals.

Last weekend I tried in my GAA to do as many ground kills as possible because of the event. I didn't care about winning because this was not part of the condition. So even though I had games with really good results I definitely contributed less to my side winning.

I think the win condition is very important and should stay.


Edited by klbergmen, 12 September 2018 - 08:44 AM.


WilhelmII #9 Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:17 AM

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View PostIsoruku_Yamamoto, on 12 September 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

Luckily there are only eight other threads about this. In fact, the issue is known with game dev also.

The current system is indeed more of a grind & playing on specialist only is often counterprodctive since itll make you lose quicker

 

Well if this is the case, then the solution to this is well overdue from those complacent Dev's we keep hearing about, personally I think it should be taken back to how it was, where you got to elite only, and everyone getting to this stage had the same amount of slots on each plane to fit their equipment and consumables, the choice being which equipment to fit from the list, all this latest crap has just pi*$ed every one off, better they admit they got it badly wrong, but we all know this will not happen because their culture does not allow them to admit mistakes.

 

View Postklbergmen, on 12 September 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

WoT has a Problem with stats padders and campers. They don't really help the team, even though they might do much damage and kills.

If you remove the win condition then you will see more similar problems here. People will not try to win anymore and will only go for their personal goals.

Last weekend I tried in my GAA to do as many ground kills as possible because of the event. I didn't care about winning because this was not part of the condition. So even though I had games with really good results I definitely contributed less to my side winning.

I think the win condition is very important and should stay.

 

First you don't know me, but let me enlighten you, the only way to have any chance of winning in a conflict or engagement, is teamwork as no one wins going solo, 22 years in the British Army taught me that, I am and will always be a team player, the whole point of my game is to win the battle and this can only be done by capping, and teamwork which includes clearing tails at all times.

 

I always try to escort AA and when one base is capped I always move on to another as you find there are plenty of kills waiting for you at the next base, what would be the point of camping and there being no targets, if you want high scores you have to get stuck in the fight,  but it is no good trying if none of it will count if the team fails to win, which is why to me winning the battle beats fragging every time for it is by winning anything you have done will count .

 

I agree with you about the condition of winning but only in the concept of fulfilling daily missions or event missions, I do not agree it should apply to your personal effort in trying to reach this extra nonsense of specialist, so why do I do it? very simple, I don't like equipment I bought stolen from me by the Dev's, when they stripped all our planes, allowing us not to refit it until we achieve this new nonsense level and when you get there you still find you cannot fit what you already had under the old system meaning the planes will never be a good as before the patch,  and yes there was the theft issue such as all my fighters used to have improved Radiators , all paid for , all gone, no compensation and please don't say there was because there was not , how do I know, everything I want to know about my planes and account are on a spread sheet so at the end of every session, I record my Credits, HP, Everything, If I want to know anything about my planes it is all there (Boring I know , but that is me) so when that patch happened I knew straight away that Items were taken and not compensated for.  


Edited by WilhelmII, 12 September 2018 - 09:19 AM.


Isoruku_Yamamoto #10 Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:29 AM

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You can win these games going solo, thats easy enough. Unlike in the army you can respawn 8 times during a battle here. 

On the issue of reverting to elite-only: I detest that idea, i utterly despise it. Simply because by now we have all gotten used to the idea that we should work with it (and so should you). 

Luckily, WG has the same opinion on that as I do: once they make a decision they hardly ever revert to a previous state unless severe issues are found (which is not the case). And that's how game development works. You try to improve the game, but sometimes you do things not everyone is happy with. 

At first i thought the update was gonna be bad, but by now i am one of the biggest fans around here of the specialist mode idea. 



eekeeboo #11 Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:45 AM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 12 September 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

 

Compensation did take place. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 



klbergmen #12 Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:42 AM

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I totally agree with you that 2.0.5 was a big nerf and understand your frustration. I do not understand how you could go on and on to loose 18 out of 20 games, I would have stopped earlier. But on the other hand somebody else collected a lot of wins. Monday I won literally every game  :trollface:

There are different kinds of players. There are the ones that don't care, they are probably worse than bots. The ones that do care will most probably go for what is rewarded most. If winning is not rewarded but collecting kills is then they will do that.

But this is a competitive multiplayer game - the highest goal should be to get a win for your team. If this is not the main goal anymore then we should forget about PvP and need PvE.

I don't want that.



zen_monk_ #13 Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:56 AM

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View Postklbergmen, on 12 September 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

But this is a competitive multiplayer game - the highest goal should be to get a win for your team. If this is not the main goal anymore then we should forget about PvP and need PvE.

 

 

Somewhere in the notes it was mentioned "PvE mod in development". It wouldn't hurt to have it like in WoWS.
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klbergmen #14 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:01 AM

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View PostIsoruku_Yamamoto, on 12 September 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

Luckily, WG has the same opinion on that as I do: once they make a decision they hardly ever revert to a previous state unless severe issues are found (which is not the case). And that's how game development works. You try to improve the game, but sometimes you do things not everyone is happy with.

At first i thought the update was gonna be bad, but by now i am one of the biggest fans around here of the specialist mode idea.

 

Game development in WoWP means that somehow they come up with an idea, implement it with a lot of bugs and stick to it, no matter what everybody else thinks about it.

From what I understood 2.0 was implemented to attract new players.

2.0.5 will push new players away because its utterly complicated and massively favours long time players. (even though they also got a big hit with it)

But that's a different topic...



0berhessen #15 Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:27 AM

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View Postklbergmen, on 12 September 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

WoT has a Problem with stats padders and campers. They don't really help the team, even though they might do much damage and kills.

If you remove the win condition then you will see more similar problems here. People will not try to win anymore and will only go for their personal goals.

Last weekend I tried in my GAA to do as many ground kills as possible because of the event. I didn't care about winning because this was not part of the condition. So even though I had games with really good results I definitely contributed less to my side winning.

I think the win condition is very important and should stay.

could be a solution that only, lets say the 2 or 3 best scores of the defeat-team, get some material/specialist score. 



klbergmen #16 Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:19 PM

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People get angry from long loosing streaks, which is somewhat understandable.

So give them something as compensation:

The medal "Epic Looser" for 5 losses in a row and always being first in the loosing team. Gives one token per day.

Although then the token collectors will try to get this by purpose...


 

:D


 

In WoT loosing is much more punishing. There you get nearly nothing and ruin your statistics.

In WoWP you still get pretty good XP and silver and don't have any meaningful statistics.



klbergmen #17 Posted 12 September 2018 - 01:19 PM

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There are so many peoply crying about loosing streaks but they don't get it - this is part of the system.
WG wants everybody to win from time to time. Even the biggest noob has to be able to win. So the results are more random than in other more competitive games.
If you want this to be changed then the game has to become more competitive/the randomness has to be reduced but this means that the not so good players will loose much more often and then they will complain about unicums, will leave and WG will loose lots of money.
So this will not happen.


If there is a relatively high chance to loose, no matter how good your performance is then there will be loosing streaks. What do you want to do against this ?
Do you want a hardcode rule that after 5 losses in a row you have to win ?

 

I come from WoT and one thing I liked about WoWP was that even if you loose you are still well rewarded. Now there are new rewards which you only get if you win. So people feel less rewarded if they have a lot of losses (which are part of the system).
So maybe WG should think about how to make people feel rewarded again if they loose.(even though in WoT they don't care about it and its still fine)
I don't think removing the win requirement is an option. This is still a PvP game and winning should always be the main objective.



jakub_czyli_ja #18 Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:25 PM

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What do you mean writing 'more random'?

 

It's either random or not.

In WoWP it looks like it simply isn't.

 

You lose enough battles being on the bottom of the table, you'll end up on the top against brick dumb bots. The problem is to lose enough battles.



CheefCoach #19 Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:52 PM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 11 September 2018 - 06:47 PM, said:

 

If so, I give my word in front of the whole forum, I will order you pizza and beer from your nearest shop if they accept Visa order from abroad.

 

You want to sneaky find out my home address. :P

 

WilhelmII  why had you put in radiators on fighters? 


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Horcan #20 Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:34 PM

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View Postklbergmen, on 12 September 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

WoT has a Problem with stats padders and campers. They don't really help the team, even though they might do much damage and kills.

If you remove the win condition then you will see more similar problems here. People will not try to win anymore and will only go for their personal goals.

Last weekend I tried in my GAA to do as many ground kills as possible because of the event. I didn't care about winning because this was not part of the condition. So even though I had games with really good results I definitely contributed less to my side winning.

I think the win condition is very important and should stay.

 

Some people like me have limited time to play the game and like to focus on doing missions or grind in that time. At a 50% WR, with the win condition , if i play 2 hours, one is wasted time since i get nothing , not even a few parts, not progress to specialist, nothing. So to limit this wasted time, when i realise a game is 100% lost(sometimes is obvious after 2 minutes ) , i just exit battle. And im not the only one.

Edited by Horcan, 12 September 2018 - 10:34 PM.





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