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B17G keeps getting attacked by other bombers?


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arcticstorm123 #1 Posted 08 December 2018 - 07:49 PM

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Decided to grind my B17G to get B32 tonight, and 3 games in a row got attacked by opposing team bombers:

 

1. PE2 - He died

2. DO217 - lost 2/3rd's of his health then decided better of it

3. DO217 - lost 2/3rd's of his health then ran, chased for a while but thought "oh who cares"

 

Now don't get me wrong I don't mind, they are easier to kill then some heavy fighters, but is this a new thing? or is it just weekend?, laughed my *** off all 3 times. :teethhappy:

 

All three times they were circling, so not just random rear gun fire in passing and they were not bots as far as I could see

 

In any case it's boosting my rear gunner stats and Specialist task nicely :D


Edited by arcticstorm123, 08 December 2018 - 07:51 PM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #2 Posted 08 December 2018 - 08:22 PM

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Well, I guess they were trying to prevent you from doing your job.

Maybe they should've done their own job better instead and left you to heavies.

Then again, not much to do while waiting for your bombs to recharge.



arcticstorm123 #3 Posted 08 December 2018 - 08:32 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 08 December 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

Well, I guess they were trying to prevent you from doing your job.

Maybe they should've done their own job better instead and left you to heavies.

Then again, not much to do while waiting for your bombs to recharge.

 

True, just found it a bit of a strange tactic, got a lot of time in the DO217 and other medium bombers, and I do my best to avoid getting shredded, I'm wondering if it's because they have tried it on the B17D which is weaker defensively?, this last game got same thing from an A26 but I can understand that, A26 is pretty near a heavy fighter with those guns in the nose, done that myself on occasions. (He still turned and ran at 1/3rd health though :facepalm:)


Edited by arcticstorm123, 08 December 2018 - 08:43 PM.


Horcan #4 Posted 08 December 2018 - 11:29 PM

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Maybe they were people trying to play the game for what it should be, aerial combat, and they realised bombers are a class that should not be in this game. Nothing fun to play it and no challenge. I would understand in a game with 15 v 15 humans they would be some tactical approach to some objective or strategy, but playing a bomber with this many bots in this game is just plain boring. No escort" feeling" interacting with other people, either fly in stratosphere then play with 2 keys, bomb view and release, or fly low and be killed in 3 seconds by heavy fighters.

arcticstorm123 #5 Posted 09 December 2018 - 08:27 AM

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View PostHorcan, on 08 December 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

Maybe they were people trying to play the game for what it should be, aerial combat, and they realised bombers are a class that should not be in this game. Nothing fun to play it and no challenge. I would understand in a game with 15 v 15 humans they would be some tactical approach to some objective or strategy, but playing a bomber with this many bots in this game is just plain boring. No escort" feeling" interacting with other people, either fly in stratosphere then play with 2 keys, bomb view and release, or fly low and be killed in 3 seconds by heavy fighters.

 

To be honest I think it's more to do with their low speed, and the time to get to altitude, happened every game yesterday, not run into this before so it's definitely become a thing.

 

As far as bombers being in the game, we've had RB17 etc. for ages, and to be honest I prefer it's multiple single drop type play to this carpet bombing approach, the targets are not really suited to it whereas the other bombers do just fine.

 

As to whether bombers should be in it at all I think it would be pretty boring without them, not everyone wants to rush straight to the middle and turn fight and even at 3,000 you still get heavy fighters hit you, I think WG just needs to work out better how they fit heavy bombers in to game play because at the moment they definitely feel like they have been shoe horned in.

 

 


Edited by arcticstorm123, 09 December 2018 - 08:32 AM.


dreambill #6 Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:40 PM

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To my opinion bombers are responsible for this atrocious mode (conquest) with caps and infinite bombs-rockets that (further) destroyed the game.

They had no place in previous game design for sure. But even here they are utterly boring to play.

Some people like them and its OK with me. But it is impossible to implement them correctly in a single mode and made it fun for all aircraft types.

That's why 1 year now I'm saying more DIFFERENT modes needed (simultaneously) to support different tastes and play needs.

The conquest mode trying to serve everything has proved mediocre (to say polite) on everything.



demostene #7 Posted 09 December 2018 - 02:51 PM

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View Postarcticstorm123, on 08 December 2018 - 07:49 PM, said:

Decided to grind my B17G to get B32 tonight, and 3 games in a row got attacked by opposing team bombers:

 

1. PE2 - He died

2. DO217 - lost 2/3rd's of his health then decided better of it

3. DO217 - lost 2/3rd's of his health then ran, chased for a while but thought "oh who cares"

 

Now don't get me wrong I don't mind, they are easier to kill then some heavy fighters, but is this a new thing? or is it just weekend?, laughed my *** off all 3 times. :teethhappy:

 

All three times they were circling, so not just random rear gun fire in passing and they were not bots as far as I could see

 

In any case it's boosting my rear gunner stats and Specialist task nicely :D

 

High altitude bombers fight among them very often,  i kill  everything  with  my B-32, heavy fighters, multirole, light fighters, etc. and...  enemy bombers, without mercy! The B17G is only the beginning, B-32 turrets are deadly, specialized B-32 is a  truly  beast.

zen_monk_ #8 Posted 09 December 2018 - 03:19 PM

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View Postdemostene, on 09 December 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

 

B-32 turrets are deadly, specialized B-32 is a  truly  beast.

 

What have you specialized with turrets?
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arcticstorm123 #9 Posted 09 December 2018 - 07:15 PM

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View Postdemostene, on 09 December 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

 

High altitude bombers fight among them very often,  i kill  everything  with  my B-32, heavy fighters, multirole, light fighters, etc. and...  enemy bombers, without mercy! The B17G is only the beginning, B-32 turrets are deadly, specialized B-32 is a  truly  beast.

 

Don't I know it!, had a B32 make some passes on me last night, he killed me first time, killed him 2nd time largely from the damage I inflicted first time round (we'd both circled a bit):izmena:

 

Specialised or not B32 turrets pack a wallop 


Edited by arcticstorm123, 09 December 2018 - 07:16 PM.


Horcan #10 Posted 10 December 2018 - 01:22 AM

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And do you feel any satisfaction from that garbage ? circling each other shooting automated turrets? Any more than flying alone undisturbed pressing a key to drop some bombs ? You have the feeling those planes should be in this game? Like youre fighting someone with it , or youre just on a job that should be automated too?

Emtod #11 Posted 10 December 2018 - 04:29 AM

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View PostHorcan, on 08 December 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

Maybe they were people trying to play the game for what it should be, aerial combat, and they realised bombers are a class that should not be in this game. Nothing fun to play it and no challenge. I would understand in a game with 15 v 15 humans they would be some tactical approach to some objective or strategy, but playing a bomber with this many bots in this game is just plain boring. No escort" feeling" interacting with other people, either fly in stratosphere then play with 2 keys, bomb view and release, or fly low and be killed in 3 seconds by heavy fighters.

 

You might be right but you should note an other point of view - Bomber-play reduces the game to pure tactical play:

Which ground-target should be attacked? Which zone should be conquered first? How many Bombs should be used at which target?

And for lots of (not so smart) players even this is a big challenge and they are overstrained (hope this is the right word in english?)

 

If you search this forum you will find enough posts with "mimimi": " I got xy personal points (... more than the enemy), why do i loose..." --> Lots of people didnt understand, that its not enough for victory only to shoot down planes (with the respawn mechanics).

The players have to use their brain, to do the right action in the right moment ant the right place - and as i mentioned they are overstrained.

 

I neither want to defend bombers nor to condemn them, but as long as they are part of the game, people have to deal with it.

And this post show, that there are enough people out there that didnt understand what the mission of bombers is: simple bombing (and not hunting other bombers, which is the path to defeat for the own team)



arcticstorm123 #12 Posted 10 December 2018 - 07:16 AM

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View PostHorcan, on 10 December 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

And do you feel any satisfaction from that garbage ? circling each other shooting automated turrets? Any more than flying alone undisturbed pressing a key to drop some bombs ? You have the feeling those planes should be in this game? Like youre fighting someone with it , or youre just on a job that should be automated too?

 

You mean circling each other shooting with manual turrets?, pretty much the same as circling in a turn fighter, just been playing my A6M5 Zero to grind an A7M, got totally fed up with it by the end of the evening, was a welcome relief to be able to use bombers and GA's for a spell, as Emtod says above you have to think with a bomber or GA about target selection and approach, whereas the average turn fighter it's just kill one red target then select the next, I do that without thinking consciously, (probably why I play my heavy fighters, GA's and bombers more).

 

Typically you go into a game and there's always 2-3 characters who rush straight to the centre in a Spitfire or Zero and assume they are some kind of super player because they are shooting down multi roles that don't know better, or bot's, and they assume they are carrying the game because they discovered flaps, which is why they get so angry when they lose because they don''t understand or like the rules, personally I'm glad WG changed the game, from what I hear they changed it because the game was failing anyway, I know I was warned away by several players I knew and most CC's said the same.

 

Anyway this wasn't intended to be about whether 1.9 was the height of game evolution, handed down by the gods and cruelly ruined, it was a simple question about if this was a change in behaviour by bombers, which it seems it is as far as I can see, FWIW it does seem to occur when people are waiting for bomb reloads or quite often when the red team has one target remaining in their control and they are defending it (myself I'd go get a few more caps, but there you go), and it happens a lot more to the B17 because it's slower and is probably an easier target if someone isn't jumping on manual turret control and manoeuvring.

 

Got the B32 last night and must say I'm enjoying it, very different beast to the B17's.

 

This thread can be closed if any mod is reading, don't want to see another never ending 1.9 shout fest.


Edited by arcticstorm123, 10 December 2018 - 07:47 AM.


Horcan #13 Posted 10 December 2018 - 12:57 PM

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You got me wrong , i like 2.0 way more than 1.9 and what i said have nothing to do with 1.9 . But like i said, the way i see it, bombers belong in some Microsoft flight simulator just cause you want to see how it looks inside, or what it imply to drop some bombs in unhappy people heads. Flying in a stright line and press a key to drop some bombs is plain boring, and does not belong in a combat game. YOu cant even compare it with WoT arti gameplay, there you more often get in close combat with regular tanks and its almost never a lost or won fight for sure and it takes a lot more to be a good arti player than this bomber thing. You have building to hide behind, teammates are closer to help you etc. NOt even mentioning hitting takes skill some times. So thats why i think people in bombers try to engage, because its just boring to do nothing but releasing some bombs unchallenged.

arcticstorm123 #14 Posted 10 December 2018 - 01:45 PM

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View PostHorcan, on 10 December 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:

You got me wrong , i like 2.0 way more than 1.9 and what i said have nothing to do with 1.9 . But like i said, the way i see it, bombers belong in some Microsoft flight simulator just cause you want to see how it looks inside, or what it imply to drop some bombs in unhappy people heads. Flying in a stright line and press a key to drop some bombs is plain boring, and does not belong in a combat game. YOu cant even compare it with WoT arti gameplay, there you more often get in close combat with regular tanks and its almost never a lost or won fight for sure and it takes a lot more to be a good arti player than this bomber thing. You have building to hide behind, teammates are closer to help you etc. NOt even mentioning hitting takes skill some times. So thats why i think people in bombers try to engage, because its just boring to do nothing but releasing some bombs unchallenged.

 

Then accept my apologies, I was just a bit worried the way the responses were going and I've seen more "Bring back 1.9" threads than I can bear to read anymore.

 

FWIW in the case of the American heavy bombers (and anything else heavy that follows) I do think further work needs to be done, either target wise or even hiving it off as a sub game if that's what keeps people happy.

 

It all comes down to whatever floats your boat, like i said I would ditch this game from boredom if all it involved was straight air combat, it's fun in spells but not something I'd play with anything like the frequency I play at the moment, whats your opinion on GA's and light bombers, yes or no?.

 

Did think it would be fun to have torpedo and bomb attacks against ships, but it looks like World of Warships will beat them to it on that (and god knows there's enough screaming on WOWS forums about that change atm), and at the end of the day it's whether people want an integrated game like War Thunder where conceivably you could combine all three Wargaming games (Yeah I know there would be many reasons this would be a problem, it would entirely change the games character, and it would probably be an impossible task as the games stand now, just saying...).

 

And I prefer keeping the broad games separate, well at least Warships, I don't play WOT.

 

Personally if it was just straight air combat I'd probably play 1/3rd the time i play now.


Edited by arcticstorm123, 10 December 2018 - 02:11 PM.


zen_monk_ #15 Posted 10 December 2018 - 01:52 PM

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View Postarcticstorm123, on 10 December 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

FWIW in the case of the American heavy bombers (and anything else that follows) I do think further work needs to be done, either target wise or even hiving it off as a sub game if that's what keeps people happy.

 

If there was Bomber Escort as a choosable mode, I would play it very much on both sides. Dakka dakka boom boom from the very first second to the last, no time to breathe :-)
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arcticstorm123 #16 Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:44 PM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 10 December 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

If there was Bomber Escort as a choosable mode, I would play it very much on both sides. Dakka dakka boom boom from the very first second to the last, no time to breathe :-)

 

Yeah I must agree, i liked the bomber escort/attack games in the last event, I got a number of planes researched or got credits to buy the next one up pretty quickly, was certainly a "target rich environment" and attacking the bomber streams was fun, as was hanging back as escort to pick off attackers.

Edited by arcticstorm123, 10 December 2018 - 02:47 PM.


paradigmshift #17 Posted 10 December 2018 - 03:37 PM

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Anyone notice that right at  the end of a game when you are operating the guns on a B 17G that there is just a brief view of what looks like the torso of a guy in a in a harness operating the gun? Is this by intent or has someone slipped in some weird code? 

GonerNL #18 Posted 11 December 2018 - 07:56 AM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 10 December 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

 

If there was Bomber Escort as a choosable mode, I would play it very much on both sides. 

 

Same. 

That mode also makes it easier for MM to come up with reasonably balanced teams. 

 

View Postparadigmshift, on 10 December 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

Anyone notice that right at  the end of a game when you are operating the guns on a B 17G that there is just a brief view of what looks like the torso of a guy in a in a harness operating the gun? 

 

Yep, you get a very quick flash of one of the (waist?) gunners ...

 

 

 


Edited by GonerNL, 11 December 2018 - 07:57 AM.





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