Jump to content


Balance and Match making Problems

match making

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

majid_HD #1 Posted 11 January 2019 - 06:14 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 78 battles
  • 96
  • Member since:
    04-30-2016
there's the 4 super big huge mistake !!

 

1-Top tier VS lower one system

sometimes one side has a top tier player, it's an advantage for that side..so Mr.Developers must think and find a solution. defenders and AAs and ground targets must be match with the higher tier or lower one ? I ask you ... of course if set them to the higher, things get harder for the lower plane while its normal for the top tier plane .

ex: (P-51,La-9,and even an attack aircraft) tier 8 vs tier 9 attack aircrafts, the tier 8 has a disadvantage against the tier9 and Mr.Developer has added more disadvantages , ground targets have more HP, AAs are stronger,Defenders have more speed and health and fly higher.

 

2-map choosing system

again the match making system sees there are two players in the queue. one for example T8 fighter with low Firepower and one T9 Ground attacker. which map is fair ? a map with two Mining Plants?! it's not hard to find

 

3-bots level

depends on the map and other situations some planes are stronger some weaker. a low tier plane vs a high tier bomber or attack aircrafts, in a map with Mining Centers or Military Centers. the low tier plane has enough weaknesses so why give him idiot attack aircrafts ?

 

4- I don't have title for this one ...(maybe this part is just accidental and I'm just unlucky)

I had three battles with a player in row, the battle one and two he had top tier or had OP plane and however I had more personal points and more capture points than him and killed him! but both battles was a hard defeat, all/most positions captured by the enemy and all combat group destroyed, so for the third battle i decided to change my plane and guess what happened ? the system putted us one side against bots, both planes same tier.

 

so this is the match maker system,first it  looks at the players list, oh just two players, so it looks whitch player spends more money,...OK give the best map for his plane, better bots, he must be the top tier.if it's not possible to give him advantages so put both players one side, what ever happens he shouldn't lose

and what if  was about to lose with all these helps and advantages?  so activate the emergency system!! all bots in the opposite must die and crash after squall time, chance of hitting defenders must be reduced 1% OR LOWER and set them to" run away" mode , buy more time

 

.maybe I'm just unlucky and part 4 is just accidental so I ask you? have you had such experiences ?


anyway if these issues has a good reason please tell me, maybe I'm wrong



trefferlage #2 Posted 11 January 2019 - 07:18 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 686 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    06-25-2013
it s WG .. thats the answer to everything… i guess they try to push away the last Player... 

CheefCoach #3 Posted 11 January 2019 - 07:46 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Conquest Member
  • 4029 battles
  • 924
  • [BBMM] BBMM
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

Well:

 

1st MM is working with what it have. Goal is to not have to long waiting lines. They could make it little bit more fair I suppose. 

 

2nd Maps are chosen randomly. Sometimes you get good one, sometimes you don't. That is fair and everybody is in same boat. 

 

3rd Bots level are made in this way: tier 1 to tier 3-newbies; tier 4 to tier 5 are soldier, tier 6 to tier 10 are veterans. So on tier 9 you are getting the good bots. They can make them better, but that would be bad for less quality players, and those with stock planes. 

 

4th Having more personal points or capture points doesn't necessarily mean that you made better contribution to the battle victory. And you aren't the only player in the team (including bots as players). Sometimes it does come to luck (sometimes you are the lucky one, and sometimes is the other team). It happened to me to put 2 humans versus no humans, and it is fine-easy victory. 


https://stats-sig.eu/wowp/CheefCoach/ussr/xs/en/sig.png

CheefCoach #4 Posted 11 January 2019 - 07:46 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Conquest Member
  • 4029 battles
  • 924
  • [BBMM] BBMM
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Posttrefferlage, on 11 January 2019 - 08:18 AM, said:

it s WG .. thats the answer to everything… i guess they try to push away the last Player... 

 

Can you please keep your bitterness away from our forum. Thanks. 
https://stats-sig.eu/wowp/CheefCoach/ussr/xs/en/sig.png

majid_HD #5 Posted 11 January 2019 - 08:44 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 78 battles
  • 96
  • Member since:
    04-30-2016

View PostCheefCoach, on 11 January 2019 - 07:46 AM, said:

Well:

1st MM is working with what it have. Goal is to not have to long waiting lines. They could make it little bit more fair I suppose.

tnx. I know it's better than waiting long time for match player also one tier higher or lower could make it fun. the problem is the lower player has one disadvantage so designers shouldn't add more disadvantage for him.

yes they definitely could make it little bit more fair . actually more than a little bit

Block Quote

2nd Maps are chosen randomly. Sometimes you get good one, sometimes you don't. That is fair and everybody is in same boat.

 randomly is not good idea, random means no rule,depends on luck.same boat? have you seen Titanic movie ? same boat but not same room

and that's fair ? what if someone pays your wage randomly..sometimes good enough sometime not.

Block Quote

3rd Bots level are made in this way: tier 1 to tier 3-newbies; tier 4 to tier 5 are soldier, tier 6 to tier 10 are veterans. So on tier 9 you are getting the good bots. They can make them better, but that would be bad for less quality players, and those with stock planes.

 I don't believe it, does a veteran bot in tier come over a mining plant and hit itself to the ground ? all players here seen idiot bots high tier and  sometimes a genius super bot/defendet in middle tier. this is "random"

depends on your luck,but I think a weaker plane should have better bot or at least equal bots both sides.

Block Quote

4th Having more personal points or capture points doesn't necessarily mean that you made better contribution to the battle victory. And you aren't the only player in the team (including bots as players). Sometimes it does come to luck (sometimes you are the lucky one, and sometimes is the other team). It happened to me to put 2 humans versus no humans, and it is fine-easy victory. 

yes having more capture point OR more personal point doesn't mean , but having more capture points AND more personal points  means.

Sometimes it does come to luck..? I think you said "3rd Bots level are made in this way (not by the players luck): tier 1 to tier 3-newbies; tier 4 to tier 5 are soldier, tier 6 to tier 10 are veterans. So on tier 9 you are getting the good bots. They can make them better, but that would be bad for less quality players, and those with stock planes. " but now you say: (sometimes you are the lucky one, and sometimes is the other team)

so finally what? are they equal or not?


thank you



klbergmen #6 Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:01 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 4392 battles
  • 596
  • [JV44] JV44
  • Member since:
    08-13-2014

View Postmajid_HD, on 11 January 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

yes having more capture point OR more personal point doesn't mean , but having more capture points AND more personal points  means.

Sometimes it does come to luck..? I think you said "3rd Bots level are made in this way (not by the players luck): tier 1 to tier 3-newbies; tier 4 to tier 5 are soldier, tier 6 to tier 10 are veterans. So on tier 9 you are getting the good bots. They can make them better, but that would be bad for less quality players, and those with stock planes. " but now you say: (sometimes you are the lucky one, and sometimes is the other team)

so finally what? are they equal or not?


thank you

 

First of all it is important which cap you attack. In general military base, command center and mining plant are the most important ones, airports are more important than basic caps. There can be exceptions that depend on the situation.

Then sometimes you can make a lot of CAP points and never switch a cap to your side.

So the CAP Points alone don't tell that much about how much you contributed to your team. And even if your the only human you are still in a team.

Personal point say even less about your contribution.

So your idea that when you get a lot of personal points or CAP Points then you should win is not correct.

The best estimate of your performance in a battle is your rank (the bars) but even this can be misleading.

I agree with some other things you said (like the MM has to be improved)


 

Bots on both sides are the same quality. Sometimes you are lucky with them and sometimes not. Sometimes I crash into the ground with my GA and sometimes not - this can happen to bots and humans ;)



Horcan #7 Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:51 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 3948 battles
  • 780
  • [FEED] FEED
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Try not to focus that much on killing the opposite human, but rather on helping with what you can, the best you can. Ive had countless games where i had such opposition, which chased me to the corner of the map just to kill me for their personal satisfaction, only to have me respawned after 10 seconds on the middle airport, while they traveled all the way back from the corner of the map, being useless. Other than that, youre right, matchmaker is awfull. For some reason, they refuse to understand a lot of players would rather not play a game, than play a game which is lost from the start, because the other side has a huge advantage. Unfortunately the human population is what it is, and for as long as bots exist in this game, you will not get fair games. Bots acts according to scripts/triggers/whatever you call them. They do not think, not react to particular situations. So even if they are same skill, one could act perfectly , spreading death around, while other just spin aimlessly in a circle, trying to reach a 4k altitude bomber.Ive had such game yesterday in RB-17, where such AI bot in Me262 eventually reached and killed me in two seconds at 4200m+ altitude. He finished that battle with 1800 pp, while my team heavy probably had somewhere around 5k.

Piq_Mastika #8 Posted 11 January 2019 - 11:22 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 3155 battles
  • 131
  • [BBMM] BBMM
  • Member since:
    07-31-2017

In addition to all said by

CheefCoach, klbergmen Horcan


 

all bots behave different:

Some of them are super aggressive, where (depends on luck) they may smash a lot of planes or just die quickly

Some of them are defending bases, circling at low att (of course sometimes this is a HF or GAA, who can be more useful attacking)

Many bots are in avenge mode, where if you have killed them, then they follow you at any cost

Sometimes the bots are escorting the bomber group or GAAs (I rarely see people who escort someone else)


 

All this is more or less RNG or so-called luck.


Edited by Piq_Mastika, 11 January 2019 - 11:23 AM.


klbergmen #9 Posted 11 January 2019 - 11:39 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 4392 battles
  • 596
  • [JV44] JV44
  • Member since:
    08-13-2014

I saw a bomber circling in one of our caps. A bit later I saw this bomber hunting a GA - and to my surprise he managed to shoot him down. This was a human...

There are worse things than bots and the worst: It is possibel that his behaviour made sense - to fulfill a mission or reach specialization.



RoyalFlyingCorps #10 Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:34 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 13228 battles
  • 291
  • [W___P] W___P
  • Member since:
    05-05-2016
Personally, I think the root of the problem with match-making is the lack of players.  For instance, if you have a team with bot heavy fighters matched against human GAA and/or bomber players you are likely to lose the battle no matter how well you play.

majid_HD #11 Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:37 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 78 battles
  • 96
  • Member since:
    04-30-2016

View Postklbergmen, on 11 January 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

 

First of all it is important which cap you attack. In general military base, command center and mining plant are the most important ones, airports are more important than basic caps. There can be exceptions that depend on the situation.

Then sometimes you can make a lot of CAP points and never switch a cap to your side.

So the CAP Points alone don't tell that much about how much you contributed to your team. And even if your the only human you are still in a team.

Personal point say even less about your contribution.

So your idea that when you get a lot of personal points or CAP Points then you should win is not correct.

The best estimate of your performance in a battle is your rank (the bars) but even this can be misleading.

I agree with some other things you said (like the MM has to be improved)


 

Bots on both sides are the same quality. Sometimes you are lucky with them and sometimes not. Sometimes I crash into the ground with my GA and sometimes not - this can happen to bots and humans ;)

but I said personal points and capture points not "or"

 

listen my friend I know you think I was defending one worthless  sector like a garrison or airfield all the time and enemies capture all mining plants and command center or miltary centers... but it's wrong and I know the importance of each bases and I know you shouldn't be too defensive or just attack and forget defense, both wrong.

 

yes if you just kill and denfed you can make much personal points but lose. but when you have lot of personal points + lot of capture point it means you played in a right way, yes it's not an exact good parameter but in 80% of cases good personal points AND capture points together in a same time same battle. means good playing. it might you give me an example like this: a fighters defends the center airbase all the time and makes +14k personal points and +450 capture points but lose the game. even in this case the fighter has played well and done its job, the main duty of fighters is defending and the reason of the defeat was the rest of the team. but yes the fighter could play better .so except some little exception , maybe 20% ...in most of the cases good personal points+ good capture points = good playing.

 

anyway talking about the effectiveness of cap points and personal point is not my goal. if you still believe personal points AND (I repeat not OR) capture points together are not good thing to judge. in my culture we call this "the excuse worth than the guilt" like" sorry I'm late because I was killing someone!" and if personal point AND capture points are not good for judging and comparing it shows the lack of design. and the system of points is not in a right way.



majid_HD #12 Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:43 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 78 battles
  • 96
  • Member since:
    04-30-2016

anyway the 4th part is not about personal points and capture points. it's about playing better. it's about match making.

 

I had 3 battle, 2 of them I had a weaker plane and how ever I played better the guy on the other side who was playing terrible and worse than bots, I tell it not by points I tell this becasuse I saw his playing. anyway  the 3th battle when I took a good plane we were in a same side! WTH it means ?



majid_HD #13 Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:53 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 78 battles
  • 96
  • Member since:
    04-30-2016

View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 12 January 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

Personally, I think the root of the problem with match-making is the lack of players.  For instance, if you have a team with bot heavy fighters matched against human GAA and/or bomber players you are likely to lose the battle no matter how well you play.

yes and if they choose a map with 2 mining plants and give you crasher bots with attack aircarfts it makes the battle more unfair.

solution for WG when one side is a human fighter tier 8 and other side a human GA tier 9 is: use a map without Mining plant or Military centers, not a map with 2 mining plants and a military center in the middle.

and don't set the bots on tier 9 they must be tier 8 becasue for the GA t9 human it's so easy to capture the Mining plants and military centers so don't make capturing harder for the weak tier 8.



trefferlage #14 Posted 13 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 686 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    06-25-2013

View PostCheefCoach, on 11 January 2019 - 07:46 AM, said:

 

Can you please keep your bitterness away from our forum. Thanks. 

 

Oh ist already " your " Forum ? lol.... i see, same nonsense  that happened on all WG Forums, same reasons, that on ALL platforms the playerbase is shrinking. get used to different opinions.

klbergmen #15 Posted 14 January 2019 - 12:36 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Advanced Member
  • 4392 battles
  • 596
  • [JV44] JV44
  • Member since:
    08-13-2014

CAP points go into personal points. There is no OR between CAP Points and personal points. Personal points are the result of CAP points plus other things.

What I tried to say is that CAP Points or personal points are not a good measure of how much you contributed to your team. Your rank is a much better measure for this but also not perfect.


 

Beside this I agree that the current matchmaker is taking too much shortcuts. There is a limit how complicated the rules of the matchmaker can be but the current implementation seems to be just lazy.







Also tagged with match making

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users