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Bomber Groups - best to ignore and counter-cap?


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Ace42X #1 Posted 08 February 2019 - 04:42 PM

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So, the impression I get is that when a command centre calls in bomber groups, you're generally best ignoring them because the amount of resources it costs (in terms of attaining their altitude, pumping damage into them, sustaining some damage engaging them, etc) to eliminate them is better used to either cap the Command Centre, or else other (more) valuable points in the interim.

IE they're a bit of a noob-trap, and as such even escorting them is pointless because you WANT enemies wasting resources attacking them.
This is compounded by them being a prime source of farming "heat-resistant" parts if you win the match.

This is my experience up to Tier 6 (I suspect at higher tiers things like having better skilled pilots, and more powerful planes might change this equation), and I'm wondering if anyone else finds this to be the case - and if so, should they be reworked so that the "shoot / escort the bombers" minigame is always worthwhile - say by giving a team victory points for each bomber that survives and escapes a bombing run - even if the bomb drop is aborted because the CP is capped, and giving the defending team victory points (at a lower rate) for shooting them down.

Edited by Ace42X, 08 February 2019 - 04:44 PM.


CheefCoach #2 Posted 08 February 2019 - 04:59 PM

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Best way to stop the bombers is to cap their command center. But if their bombers are going for your command center, and yours to theirs, you can spend some time stopping them. 

 

Also the bombers in flight counts as bomber for McCambell medal, and count as areal kills for Ace or Marseille medals. 


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blackmoomba #3 Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:13 PM

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@ace42x - depends what you engage the flight with. If you are in a Heavy Fighter with a lot of Firepower, you can dispatch them quite fast. Also, in order to lose minimum HP, you have to approach them correctly... front-side, like from 11 o'clock or 1 o'cloak... on a horizontal plane. This way, you are outside their gunners coverage and can dispatch 2 of them in a pass, going as i said, from 11 toward the flight, bank right/left a bit, and proceed towards 1 (and reverse)... I've seen quite a lot of players chasing them from behind... it's like the worst possible approach, exposing them to a lot of income gunner damage.

Sometimes, doing this properly (not receiving damage) and farming 1-2-3 flights of enemy bombers puts a lot of pressure on the enemy team to defend their CC from your team mates or from your own bomber flights (when you have a map with 2 CCs and got the other)

I can't recommend chasing bomber flights in fighters/multiroles that are slow, limited healthpool or, most important, lack the fire power... it can be done, but, as i said above, you must do it smartly.

 

From the perspective of someone that focuses on obtaining the medals, McCampbell, Ace and Marseille, the bombers are the free kills they need. From the perspective of a Heavy and a Fighter that wants to score a lot of points, again it's a lot of free kills towards achieving the "Destroy aerial targets" component towards and grade 1 performance. Multiroles are the only fighters that can't benefit from killing them towards performance grade, HOWEVER, for the F94D, BVPs... bomber flights are ideal towards completing the Golubev medal... also, cuz i just remembered, it's easy for Heavies to achieve the most difficult Gabreski medal by farming 10 kills.

 

Sometimes, depending on what you fly and what the enemy presence above the CC is, contesting their CC might not be the smartest decision. So, like most of the things in the game, situational awareness is vital.



WilhelmII #4 Posted 09 February 2019 - 11:50 AM

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It really annoys me when these noobs break off from capping a base to go chase Bombers, which is a waste of time unless you have real heavy guns with good burst and a Fast speed and boost to get you there, and no one has all off these so this = WASTE of Time!!, the best way is, to get the base sending them, Cap it! the main point is to win a Battle, it is not just a game of shoot em all with no other purpose.

blackmoomba #5 Posted 09 February 2019 - 06:05 PM

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Winning is one of the objectives, as stated above, there is purpose in shooting them. The problem occurs when people not having the purpose do it... instead of focusing on their own objectives.

I just give you an example, mission "Do 30000 damage to aerial targets". Hmm, should i chase 100 kills on agile fighters  or kill 20 bombers flying in a straight line? Do it in like 12-15 games (or more) or do it in 2 games?

On maps where the bombers go for MY mining plant, you can be sure i would farm them to secure the big points income, rather than contesting the CC and losing the plant to the first wave.



Dis4ster #6 Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:10 AM

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Hunt Bombers as much as possible to rank high in the current event, there is no win condition.

WilhelmII #7 Posted 10 February 2019 - 03:33 PM

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View PostDis4ster, on 10 February 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Hunt Bombers as much as possible to rank high in the current event, there is no win condition.

 

And so long as we keep the kiddies happy with small prizes for their long hours, that's alright then, to hell with team work and getting the objectives capped and winning the battle, so long as some can play their own little game within a game to make them happy,  awwwwww  nice.

Edited by WilhelmII, 10 February 2019 - 03:34 PM.


Dis4ster #8 Posted 10 February 2019 - 06:35 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 10 February 2019 - 03:33 PM, said:

 

And so long as we keep the kiddies happy with small prizes for their long hours, that's alright then, to hell with team work and getting the objectives capped and winning the battle, so long as some can play their own little game within a game to make them happy,  awwwwww  nice.

 

Teamwork? You mean with the so called "teammates" that shot the low HP target in front of you down before they go to the enemy that is shoting you in the back, i prefer bots over those "teammates" because i never expect anything from them. By the way, to win is your personal goal, just like my goal is to do a lot of damage right now, the bots don't care about winning and at least half of the humans in your team also don't care(because they are 7-10 years old and play for "fun"). So if me shoting down bombers doesn't help you win then its because you are a dead weight that needs someone to carry you.

Piq_Mastika #9 Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:09 AM

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View PostDis4ster, on 10 February 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:

 

Teamwork? You mean with the so called "teammates" that shot the low HP target in front of you down before they go to the enemy that is shoting you in the back, i prefer bots over those "teammates" because i never expect anything from them. By the way, to win is your personal goal, just like my goal is to do a lot of damage right now, the bots don't care about winning and at least half of the humans in your team also don't care(because they are 7-10 years old and play for "fun"). So if me shoting down bombers doesn't help you win then its because you are a dead weight that needs someone to carry you.

 

I will take the risk to digress from the main topic here, but I can't resist. This is not the 7-10 y.o. who play for "fun". I'm 30 y.o. and I do not really care about wining or losing. I know 3-4 people, who are circa 40+ and care about win rates even less.

For the bomber topic, this is HF's job and always have been.



BlackLebbel #10 Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:18 AM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 11 February 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

I will take the risk to digress from the main topic here, but I can't resist. This is not the 7-10 y.o. who play for "fun". I'm 30 y.o. and I do not really care about wining or losing. I know 3-4 people, who are circa 40+ and care about win rates even less.

For the bomber topic, this is HF's job and always have been.

 

I started this game at 19 years old, now I'm 26: enjoying this game even more...and i cared about winning in past, but after i grew up with this game i learned that even if you make a lot in a battle, you can't support a team alone, just can't, with two guys maybe but after all now in 2.0 it's a matter of capturing and keep the sectors so it involves more team work, so if I had been unlucky and had couple of bad battles doesn't mean it will be bad everytime...depends how much you or them take in consideration those commands on the map. I wonder how many players are beteewn 20 and 30 or at least my age...:child:...nowi I'm feeling young haha:hiding:

Renwor #11 Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:23 AM

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I would generally agree that most of the time the contribution of destroying bomber flights to battle outcome is questionable - buuut how to resist such a HP piňatas ?  


 


GonerNL #12 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:35 AM

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It all depends ... when we have more bases I will not go after every bomber stream, but when they go for our last base I will try everything to shoot enough so they can't cap the base in just one run (which is ridiculous anyway), because 'air superiority' ends the game pretty fast. 

WilhelmII #13 Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:16 AM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 11 February 2019 - 07:09 AM, said:

 

I will take the risk to digress from the main topic here, but I can't resist. This is not the 7-10 y.o. who play for "fun". I'm 30 y.o. and I do not really care about wining or losing. I know 3-4 people, who are circa 40+ and care about win rates even less.

For the bomber topic, this is HF's job and always have been.

 

I will also digress

 

As for me I am 67, and (1), I play to grind only I never buy planes I only buy hangers and camo, (2) you will find in life that for anything to really succeed it relies on Teamwork, 22 years in the British Army taught me that very fast, if you go it alone you die for sure, as a team you not only pursue the Aim going forward , but you also watch the back of your team mates , same as clearing tails in the game yes go for a kill  but if on the way you see one on the back of a team mate, then that should become your 1st priority clear his tail so he and you can continue, not to just fly past and let him die, do that in a real unit and see what happens, Me I play for pure fun, but I try to play it for real in that I try to think what would I really do if it were a live situation, I find thinking like this keeps me more focused and helps me enjoy it even more, same also when I play WOT or War Thunder. 

 

When you play a game like this, there will always be an age range but let me assure you there are some 7-10 years old who understand the principles of the game more than some of the older folk, so let,s not just Generalise, sure play it your way , but when you are alone chasing bombers, ask yourself which is more beneficial to the team you doing what you do (Dis4ster) or helping go after the base sending them, which would mean getting stuck in with the dogfight, where some must take the bullet for others to achieve the goal . 

 



Piq_Mastika #14 Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 12 February 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

 

I will also digress

 

As for me I am 67, and (1), I play to grind only I never buy planes I only buy hangers and camo, (2) you will find in life that for anything to really succeed it relies on Teamwork, 22 years in the British Army taught me that very fast, if you go it alone you die for sure, as a team you not only pursue the Aim going forward , but you also watch the back of your team mates , same as clearing tails in the game yes go for a kill  but if on the way you see one on the back of a team mate, then that should become your 1st priority clear his tail so he and you can continue, not to just fly past and let him die, do that in a real unit and see what happens, Me I play for pure fun, but I try to play it for real in that I try to think what would I really do if it were a live situation, I find thinking like this keeps me more focused and helps me enjoy it even more, same also when I play WOT or War Thunder.

 

When you play a game like this, there will always be an age range but let me assure you there are some 7-10 years old who understand the principles of the game more than some of the older folk, so let,s not just Generalise, sure play it your way , but when you are alone chasing bombers, ask yourself which is more beneficial to the team you doing what you do (Dis4ster) or helping go after the base sending them, which would mean getting stuck in with the dogfight, where some must take the bullet for others to achieve the goal .

 

 

You can't compare pixels to real battle.... In the army your mates are your brothers and you always will try to defend them, as they will do. You can't expect 7-10 y.o. to act like an adult.

And the HF's job is really chasing the bombers. Why do you think german BF110's couldn't protect the bombers during Battle of Britain during WWII? because the BF110's suck for escorts. ME262, was meant to be destroyer of bombers, not dogfighter.



GonerNL #15 Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:18 AM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 12 February 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

You can't expect 7-10 y.o. to act like an adult.

 

Or bots ... let's face it ; there are no teams in Wowp.

Just 2 sides where almost everybody has his own interests and acts accordingly. And so at the start of the battle the whole 'team' flies to the garrisons, ignoring the airbase and/or command center. And you are on your own ...

 

Block Quote

ME262, was meant to be destroyer of bombers, not dogfighter.

 

And Hitler wanted it to be a ground attack bomber ...

 

 


Edited by GonerNL, 12 February 2019 - 11:21 AM.


BravelyRanAway #16 Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:26 AM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 12 February 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

ask yourself which is more beneficial to the team you doing what you do (Dis4ster) or helping go after the base sending them, which would mean getting stuck in with the dogfight, where some must take the bullet for others to achieve the goal . 

 

As he wins 60%+ of his games....I'd say what he's doing helps his teams more often than not, which is a lot more than some others do.


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zen_monk_ #17 Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:44 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 12 February 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

I will also digress

 

As for me I am 67, and (1), I play to grind only I never buy planes I only buy hangers and camo, (2) you will find in life that for anything to really succeed it relies on Teamwork, 22 years in the British Army taught me that very fast, if you go it alone you die for sure, as a team you not only pursue the Aim going forward , but you also watch the back of your team mates , same as clearing tails in the game yes go for a kill  but if on the way you see one on the back of a team mate, then that should become your 1st priority clear his tail so he and you can continue, not to just fly past and let him die, do that in a real unit and see what happens, Me I play for pure fun, but I try to play it for real in that I try to think what would I really do if it were a live situation, I find thinking like this keeps me more focused and helps me enjoy it even more, same also when I play WOT or War Thunder. 

 

When you play a game like this, there will always be an age range but let me assure you there are some 7-10 years old who understand the principles of the game more than some of the older folk, so let,s not just Generalise, sure play it your way , but when you are alone chasing bombers, ask yourself which is more beneficial to the team you doing what you do (Dis4ster) or helping go after the base sending them, which would mean getting stuck in with the dogfight, where some must take the bullet for others to achieve the goal . 

 

 

And you should ask yourself what is this thing we're doing here? I will answer: we are playing a video game.

 

The only purpose of it is having fun.

 

If one likes to chase bombers or strafe a factory with a Spit, good on him. It is not up to you to judge or label anyone on the way he enjoys the game, beneficial to the team or not. This is not a bloody measuring device or a real life action drill, absolutely nothing in rl depends on this. Let the people have fun doing what they like. That's why we're here.


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klbergmen #18 Posted 13 February 2019 - 12:53 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 09 February 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

It really annoys me when these noobs break off from capping a base to go chase Bombers, which is a waste of time unless you have real heavy guns with good burst and a Fast speed and boost to get you there, and no one has all off these so this = WASTE of Time!!, the best way is, to get the base sending them, Cap it! the main point is to win a Battle, it is not just a game of shoot em all with no other purpose.

 

On the map with two bomber bases and some useless caps most often both teams will first capture "their" bomber base. Then both bomber streams go for the enemy bomber base. If nobody attacks the bombers both bases will switch back and forth. If you attack the enemy bomber base it will switch earlier to your side but you will still loose yours. You get only a minor advantage by doing this.

On the other hand if you stop the enemy bomber stream and your bombers get through then both bomber bases will be yours and you will win.

I once was so fed up from these switching bases that I attacked the bombers with my GA. (the german high tier GA can be pretty good in this)

Now I tend to first attack one of the useless caps so that the enemies bombers go there.


 

Another example: On the maps with 1-2 factories and 1-2 bomber bases if you capture both factories and then defend them against the enemy bombers you will win and make a lot of damage. If you try to capture also the enemy's bomber base you will do less damage and might loose the factory.


 

Third example: If your defending a cap and there are 5 bombers coming in then there is no point fighting the enemies planes and let the bombers get through.


 

So there are situations (not always) where it is better to go for the bombers.






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