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Curtiss Model 81A-1 vs BF109-E3 BNZ

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Ace42X #1 Posted 20 February 2019 - 11:43 AM

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So I've fallen in love with the promo Curtiss I got from somewhere (mission reward?  Promo code redemption?  I can't remember) - it handles like a stunt-plane.  At first I hated its weak armament, but it's so nimble and good at altitude that I can zip all over the place.

On the other hand, my 109 E-3 (with special pilot) is still under-performing.  I thought I'd compare the two to find out which elements are letting me down, and found that - with my present configuration of both - their statistics are almost identical.  They fly in the same battlegroups (The 109 often sees T4 matches that my curtiss could equally be in), so in theory the 109's greater armament should be smashing through victims doubly quick.


I'm scratching my head as to what the difference is:  The 109 is specced and has Sight, Polish, Uprated Engine, Lightweight Engine on it fully upgraded; the curtiss isn't and only has enhanced Cockpit, Lightweight Wings, Lightweight Power.

My theories are:

  • The stats aren't telling the whole story, and unlisted details like acceleration, thrust, boost-recharge-rate, weight that the 109 might secretly be lacking in are making it feel different.
  • The polished skin on the 109 means airbrakes and flaps just aren't slowing it down effectively enough, and as such it shoots past victims whereas the Curtis can hang on their backsides longer and then boost vertically a few thousand feet very comfortably.
  • The gun-handling (lead distance) on the 109 is significantly different to the other planes I fly and thus I'm losing more bullets despite the guns being theoretically more accurate.
  • The US pilot has Aerobatics Expert on it; the German special pilot does not.


I've got the polished skin on the 109 in order to trigger Nose-Dive skill more quickly (and thus get it in play more often), as well as using the cruise-speed bonus to synergies with the pilot's E-3 mastery and thus 10% bonus to airspeed.


So, my question to you guys:  Should I drop polished skin for wings (which is what I have on my Curtiss) on the grounds that "the E-3's going too fast already!" and more manoeuvrability is always a good thing; or should I just wait (ages) for the pilot to get Aerobatics Expert because that's the most likely culprit given that all the other stats for the planes are already nearly identical?



Piq_Mastika #2 Posted 20 February 2019 - 11:57 AM

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NO. E-3 is tier 5, model 81-A is t4, so they use different enhancements.



Ace42X #3 Posted 20 February 2019 - 12:43 PM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 20 February 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

NO. E-3 is tier 5, model 81-A is t4, so they use different enhancements.

 

The costs in credits are different, but the effects look the same on the equipment:
On the Curtis:  Improved Lightweight Wing-Frame 6.5% +roll, 1.5% +turn -2.2% hp -4.5% wing damage res.
On the 109:  Stock Lightweight Wing-Frame 5% +roll, +1% turn -1% hp, -3% wing damage res.

I assume those stats would be identical (excepting the random bonuses) if the Stock Lightweight Wing-Frame was enhanced.

As I said, at present the hangar is telling me that the two planes (in their current configurations) have near identical performance, with the 109 being marginally superior in several of them.

Edited by Ace42X, 20 February 2019 - 12:44 PM.


GonerNL #4 Posted 20 February 2019 - 12:48 PM

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View PostAce42X, on 20 February 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

more manoeuvrability is always a good thing; 

 

That's my motto ... I use lightweight airframe & engine on the 109 E and E-3 with aerodynamics expert and get just that bit of extra maneuverability that often gives me the edge over other planes.

Can't remember what's on the 81A ; I took the trained pilot and put him in my P-39N.



Piq_Mastika #5 Posted 20 February 2019 - 12:53 PM

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View PostAce42X, on 20 February 2019 - 02:43 PM, said:

 

The costs in credits are different, but the effects look the same on the equipment:
On the Curtis:  Improved Lightweight Wing-Frame 6.5% +roll, 1.5% +turn -2.2% hp -4.5% wing damage res.
On the 109:  Stock Lightweight Wing-Frame 5% +roll, +1% turn -1% hp, -3% wing damage res.

I assume those stats would be identical (excepting the random bonuses) if the Stock Lightweight Wing-Frame was enhanced.

As I said, at present the hangar is telling me that the two planes (in their current configurations) have near identical performance, with the 109 being marginally superior in several of them.

 

It gives the same bonuses, but tier 1-4 uses different enhancements than 5-7 or 8-10. So your module from 81A-1 can be used on planes in tiers from 1 to 4.

Ace42X #6 Posted 20 February 2019 - 01:04 PM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 20 February 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

 

It gives the same bonuses, but tier 1-4 uses different enhancements than 5-7 or 8-10. So your module from 81A-1 can be used on planes in tiers from 1 to 4.

 

Yah, I appreciate they are different periods, but I've got enough credits / parts to disassemble and rebuy from scratch on the 109, so I'm not thinking about swapping parts (especially given the cost in tokens which I need to save for rerolling ultimate bonuses) - just duplicating them.

That said, I'd probably dismount my ultimate polished skin and pop it on my FW 190 rather than nuking it.

At present I'm guessing that Aerobatics Expert (don't have 'dynamics on either pilot) is the major difference, along with the 109 being just too fast.  I'm reluctant to ditch the Polished Skin until I'm convinced it's not doing me enough favours.  I think I might try a few games in the 109 to see if I can figure it out and try controlling my speed more aggressively.

GonerNL #7 Posted 20 February 2019 - 01:34 PM

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The advantage of Aerobatics is that it gives more maneuverability without specific equipment. Aerodynamics only works when equipment for maneuverability and/or speed is installed.

Ace42X #8 Posted 20 February 2019 - 01:42 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 20 February 2019 - 01:34 PM, said:

The advantage of Aerobatics is that it gives more maneuverability without specific equipment. Aerodynamics only works when equipment for maneuverability and/or speed is installed.

 

Yep, I've skipped it on most pilots because I only have a few vehicles now approaching ultimate spec (and thus most benefit from dynamics) - whereas a lot of my premium planes only have 2 equipment slots that relate to dynamics, and thus limited benefit.

I put my E3 pilot in my FW 190 and BF 209 so both benefit from Nosedive (if it's actually working, grrr) and to try powering through to the more expensive skillpoints, and of course the 190 has relatively less benefit from dynamics.

Edited by Ace42X, 20 February 2019 - 01:44 PM.


Piq_Mastika #9 Posted 20 February 2019 - 01:48 PM

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View PostAce42X, on 20 February 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

 

Yah, I appreciate they are different periods, but I've got enough credits / parts to disassemble and rebuy from scratch on the 109, so I'm not thinking about swapping parts (especially given the cost in tokens which I need to save for rerolling ultimate bonuses) - just duplicating them.

That said, I'd probably dismount my ultimate polished skin and pop it on my FW 190 rather than nuking it.

At present I'm guessing that Aerobatics Expert (don't have 'dynamics on either pilot) is the major difference, along with the 109 being just too fast.  I'm reluctant to ditch the Polished Skin until I'm convinced it's not doing me enough favours.  I think I might try a few games in the 109 to see if I can figure it out and try controlling my speed more aggressively.

 

The way your BF is currently enhanced is pure BnZ: You only go up and down and mostly strike from above. This is not a bad tactic, but know you need some speed to escape back up (or escape horizontally, it depends on the situation). The big guns you have gives another bonus, where you can kill a fragile target with only one salvo.

The BF maneuver setup is a bit different: you stay high and maneuver the HF's and MRF's, then kill them from behind. This one may be more interesting, only if there is someone at your altitude. I don't recommend low alt dogfights, because most of the yaks, spitfires and A6M's will outmaneuver you, no matter how good you are enhanced. You can still dive them, but escaping is a bit harder with only maneuver enhs.

I'm trying to point 2 not very common, but effective styles, who suits on both planes. The advice you want doesn't have an easy answer, because all is up to your playstyle and preferences. Of course you can use mixed enhancements, too (few for speed, few for maneuverability). Better play until specialist and see what style (or mix) you want to play, then adjust the tunes.


 

*EDIT: Polished skin kills the maneuverability, so if you want maneuver option, replace it. Here are few of my setups if it helps:

BF 109E - Sight, Polished skin, Engine boost mixture injection system, Upgraded engine. - Pure BnZ

Meteor - Sight, Lightweight wing frame, Lightweight power unit, Upgraded engine. - All altitude fighter with decent maneuverability and speed (both about 60)


Edited by Piq_Mastika, 20 February 2019 - 01:56 PM.


kryb #10 Posted 01 March 2019 - 02:35 PM

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Curtiss Model 81A-1 is crap, a very weak plane ...

prawiejakzywiec666 #11 Posted 01 March 2019 - 03:10 PM

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View Postkryb, on 01 March 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

Curtiss Model 81A-1 is crap, a very weak plane ...

 

Yep. It is a piece of s... I flew mine just couple of times and it is good only in.... Dying...

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Piq_Mastika #12 Posted 03 March 2019 - 11:44 PM

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View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 01 March 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

 

Yep. It is a piece of s... I flew mine just couple of times and it is good only in.... Dying...

 

So you are not playing it right. LF's are not only Spits, A6M's and Yaks... If you use not only the maneuverability but the altitude and speed there are so many options with so-called "weak" planes like 81A-1, HE100-D, BF109F etc.

Renwor #13 Posted 04 March 2019 - 01:36 PM

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Options with He-100D ?  Hmm, I was looking for option to de-mount the MG's, so I can get even more speed. It's really good plane for sightseeing, gets you where you want to be pretty fast. Shooting things? How rude ....


 


Ace42X #14 Posted 05 March 2019 - 10:39 PM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 03 March 2019 - 11:44 PM, said:

 

So you are not playing it right.

 

Exactly so.

Me in my Curtis:


But maybe a bit more vertical.

Arlique #15 Posted 07 March 2019 - 11:38 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 20 February 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

 

That's my motto ... I use lightweight airframe & engine on the 109 E and E-3 with aerodynamics expert and get just that bit of extra maneuverability that often gives me the edge over other planes.

Can't remember what's on the 81A ; I took the trained pilot and put him in my P-39N.

 

Would that also apply to my F86-A sabre? i want it to be agile as much as i can for those pesky yak-19 and yak-30's.
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zen_monk_ #16 Posted 07 March 2019 - 12:03 PM

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View PostArlique, on 07 March 2019 - 11:38 AM, said:

 

Would that also apply to my F86-A sabre? i want it to be agile as much as i can for those pesky yak-19 and yak-30's.

 

Yes it would, but there's no upgrade or 999 skilz pilot to make Sabre match Yak-30's turn rate. You'll be -5 worse at best. What you have instead is almost a double ceiling and greater speed. Go up, stay there and grab an opportunity.

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