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Which bomber to get and a few other questions

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Jinx79 #1 Posted 21 February 2019 - 01:35 PM

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Hi All

 

After just under 600 battles I'm about to dip my toes into bombers.  I was wondering which bomber you guys would recommend for my first.  I've got the first German bomber unlocked and shortly I'll have the first USA one available as well.  I was leaning more towards the US bomber but would this be a good choice for a bomber noob?

 

I was also considering using a joystick for this game.  I'm currently using keyboard and mouse and tbh I don't have any issues with this but I do have a old Saitek Cyborg 3d Gold knocking around which I could clean up and possible use (more in a moment).  Does using a joystick help in this game at all or is it more a personal preference thing?  With the joystick has anyone got a Cyborg 3d Gold working in Windows 10?  I can't seem to find a drive that works for me.

 

Final question.  Does anyone have any good guides on the tactical side of the game?  I'm having a blast flying around and shooting the living snot out of planes and ground targets (win or lose) but I do find I kind of lose sight of the overall picture.  I guess I'm looking for a overview of target priority and general tips on what to capture or defend.  My win rate seems ok to me at the moment but I'm not sure if that's me or just blind luck (and it's not the biggest sample size yet).

 

Thanks for reading and any replies.

 

Jinx



Ace42X #2 Posted 21 February 2019 - 01:40 PM

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Mouse+KB is better.  The only reason to use joystick is if you care more about the experience of using a joystick than you do about your in-game performance.

The US bombers are great for peace and quiet, the B-17s flying at their ceiling height will be unreachable by even a lot of heavies - and at that height their bombs scatter enough to nuke two or even three sections of ground-targets in one bomb release.  Even the AA seems to ignore me at that height, and I can flip a sector in a single pass, which I have struggled to do since the bombing accuracy nerf with my German bombers.

I've found the JU-88 has suffered a lot in comparison since the recent patch:  I have to fly far lower to concentrate the weaker bombs on individual sectors, and even within optimal performance range one RNG bomblet miss keeps a section alive and thus prevents a flip.
I'm hoping that when I spec the 88 and put on the bombsight I can fly it a bit higher and more reliably target sectors.

Edited by Ace42X, 21 February 2019 - 01:42 PM.


GonerNL #3 Posted 21 February 2019 - 01:46 PM

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Using a joystick is a matter of personal preference. I can not imagine flying a plane with keyboard/mouse, it feels unnatural. 

With a stick the maneuvering is better, but from what I hear aiming with the mouse is easier. With a stick you aim the guns with your plane, with the mouse you drag the reticle to your target. Keeping your target in view is easier. I still prefer the stick ... try both.

 

Choosing a bomber depends on the 'style' you want to use ; precision by dropping 2 or 4 bombs a time or carpet bombing by dropping 8 bombs (B-17).

 

View PostAce42X, on 21 February 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

Even the AA seems to ignore me at that height, 

 

How high do you fly ??

Optimum altitude is 2100-2200 meters and heavies and AA will get you there ... 

 


Edited by GonerNL, 21 February 2019 - 01:49 PM.


Ace42X #4 Posted 21 February 2019 - 01:52 PM

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Strategic guide for new players:  Concentrate on flipping Command Centres at the start of the game so that the bomber-waves they call in have time to reach their targets and contribute; next priority should be Military Bases, so you get support from their rockets in capping.

Next priority is a toss-up between a *central* airbase (has repair facility) and Mining Facilities.  Mining Facilities are more valuable - and you want them capped early so they can start generating Victory Points; but being able to respawn in a more important position can enable you to cap / recap / defend mining facilities more comfortably and thus be circumstantially more useful.

Peripheral airbases, and forward Airfields come next in the pecking order; with Garisons being the least valuable sectors to control.

AI Bomber-flights are a noob-trap; you should be counter-capping the Command Centre or other sectors rather than trying to shoot them down at early / mid-tiers - in the mid-tier you can start to see more heavily armed planes that can pick them off.
The exception to this is on the one Archaepelago map configuration where one team get the CC in the North, and the other team a garrison and airfield at the bottom.  In that case the meta-game for the southern team is to defend the two bottom points at all cost, and that includes taking out incoming bomber flights.

Other than that:  Group up, play your plane's role, and when dog-fighting position yourself so that your team-mates can help you out (IE don't run away from team-mates when you've got someone on your tail so they can't catch up and shoot the bogey down for you).
 



Ace42X #5 Posted 21 February 2019 - 01:55 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 21 February 2019 - 01:46 PM, said:

How high do you fly ??

Optimum altitude is 2100-2200 meters and heavies and AA will get you there ... 

 


The red-line for the B-17 is something like 11/10,000 feet?  I can clear two / three section reliably with a single bomb-pass at that height without bombsite equipped.

For the Junker I have to hang around 5,500 feet to be confident that I can use one drop to clear one section.



Jinx79 #6 Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:01 PM

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Thanks for the quick replies.  I think I'll give the US bomber line a go first.

 

@Ace42X Appreciate you taking the time to type up the info on target priorities.  It will definitely help me in the future.


Edited by Jinx79, 21 February 2019 - 02:08 PM.


wlatopa #7 Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:11 PM

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Better german bombers,much better

GonerNL #8 Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:14 PM

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B-17's are a bit slow ... they have decent speed at opt. altitude but you're easy prey there.

You might give the light bombers a try first, like Pe-2 ...



Ace42X #9 Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:18 PM

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Tactical Guide for new players:
Concentrate on your plane's role:  Multirole - help clear out enemy players - if an enemy player is stomping your team, help focus them, then clear out AA guns, then either clean-up any lone-buildings in ground-sections that bombers / GAA have missed to help flip point; or else help take out Air-Defence Aircraft to help flip point depending on your circumstances and plane.  If an uncontested CP is filled with friendly players, it'll probably flip so quickly that you can just shoot down some Air-Defence Aircraft instead.

GAA - Help clean out AA guns, then clear out high-value "objective" sections of the ground-targets, then clear up lower-value sections of the ground targets to flip point.  If you get some convenient shots on enemy planes / ADA, by all means take them.


Bombers - nuke the special-objectives and higher-value sections of ground targets from orbit to flip points.

(l)Fighters - dogfight the enemy to flip points and to protect your low-altitude team-mates.  Figure out if your plane is BnZ, TNB, or a flying tank - play accordingly.

Heavy Fighters - Bnz the enemy dogfighting swarm to deal big burst damage to enemy Fighters / Heavies; protect friendly bombers at high altitudes; kill enemy bombers; use your bombs / rockets to help finish off partially-destroyed sections of ground targets, etc.

To Boom-And-Zoom figure out your maximum gun range, and go that far above your plane's optimum control height (so your altitude goes into the yellow marker on your HUD), that gives you the right height to build up speed in your dive or else evade enemies trying to climb to you.  Find someone whose attention isn't on you, dive in on them and activate flaps as you approach your gun-range - don't use airbrake unless your speed is exceeding optimum (going into yellow on the hud) - blast them, then either climb vertically at ~85 degrees on your hud; or else fly horizontally at ~10 - 15 degrees in order to escape retaliation and then do a loop / immelman in order to re-enter combat - ideally back at your original high altitude.
Your escape will be dictated by what you're flying against and how you want to position for re-engage - stuff like Zeroes which have bad climb will stall out if you boost vertical and they try to follow - making them a sitting duck for team-mates and allowing an easy re-dive to finish them.


Tips:
Separate out "group 2" weapons from "fire all" at the very least - that way you can allow group-1 auto-cannons to cool-down whilst still letting your group-2 MGs spam out damage; also lets you use their tracers for aiming in some planes.

Set auto-roll and auto-level to 0 in Mouse+KB controls:  You want to control both manually using A and D keys.

Set separate controls for flaps and air-brakes, maybe disable autoflaps too:  Often you'll want the lift and speed control gifted by flaps (especially when near-stalling), but won't want to kill speed (and thus energy) by using airbrakes.
Use alt-hud and alt-map except when picking respawn location - the extra info is crucial.
 


Edited by Ace42X, 21 February 2019 - 02:29 PM.


Ace42X #10 Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:28 PM

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View PostJinx79, on 21 February 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

Thanks for the quick replies.  I think I'll give the US bomber line a go first.

 

@Ace42X Appreciate you taking the time to type up the info on target priorities.  It will definitely help me in the future.

 

Forgot to add:  The absence of air-defence aircraft over Mining Facilities means that - if you anticipate the mining facilities will be uncontested - GAA / Bombers can focus on them, maybe with a MRF for defence and assistance; whereas everyone else can focus on an airfield instead.

GonerNL #11 Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:45 PM

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Yes, that's important to keep in mind !

Not all bases can be flipped by just killing all defense fighters. CC, garrison and airfields can be taken that way, but Missile base has only 2 heavy ADA, so you have to also destroy some ground targets (or get lucky and an enemy will stray into the sector). Mining factory - unless, as Ace42X points out, it's contested by enemy - can only be taken by destruction of ground targets.



Nixwieweg #12 Posted 21 February 2019 - 03:11 PM

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Moin Jinx

Perhaps this link is helpful for an new Bomberpilot:

https://blog.worldofwarplanes.com/mechanics/aa-guns-20-smarter-meaner-more-useful/

You can find the tierspecific maximum shooting ranges of  the heavy AA . . .


 

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wlatopa #13 Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:36 PM

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If you hope to shoot down a GT from those altitudes ( see the table for tier) you are an optimistic player.

The only way is the use of brain and calculate more factors like:

1) if u are alone on the cap

2) if you are top tier or not

3)if there are some heavies or high altitude fighters humans specialized or not and if they are top tier

4) You must have an scheme or sequence clear in mind where you launch the bombs and at wich altitude u are more effectiveness (strategy),keeping in mind the uppers points.

5) if you go at 3500m with tier V for bombing because AA guns and HF dont take you,only waste your time. When your altimetr is in red,u are totally useless.


Edited by wlatopa, 21 February 2019 - 04:41 PM.


Ace42X #14 Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:58 PM

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View Postwlatopa, on 21 February 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

5) if you go at 3500m with tier V for bombing because AA guns and HF dont take you,only waste your time. When your altimetr is in red,u are totally useless.

 

Sounds like someone hasn't tried taking the B-17D up that high.

Approaching its ceiling (although certainly not going into it) I can potentially clear 3 whole sections of ground targets with *one* of my two bomb releases. 

 

Flying at a lower height, for example its optimum flying height of 7000ft, means that I can only clear *one* section per bomb release unless I'm lucky with dispersion and layout, which is two sections total and not enough to flip points reliably.

That's without a bombsight, but with demolitions expert pilot skill on both.

The 500lb bombs, if upgraded with Improved Fragmentation consumable ammo, can comfortably one-shot a section - and the fact that you rain down *8* of them per release means you're wasting them if you fly so low as to concentrate them all on one section of ground target.

Of course, the 50kgx4 bomblets the JU-88 carries are nowhere near that powerful on their own,  spread out all over the place, and as such have to be concentrated one release per section - and STILL end up causing RNG misses without a bombsight at or approaching the 6,500 feet range.


Edited by Ace42X, 21 February 2019 - 05:16 PM.


wlatopa #15 Posted 21 February 2019 - 05:25 PM

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B17 at those altitudes is very slow and refill the bombs is very slow.You have only 2 release and if you dont take a multiple targets,you are totally useless for the outcome and for your points ;).

B17 have  max effectiveness when is fast (as all american bombers) ,over 350-380 km/h and  when go straight to take much targets is possible with 1 release..


Edited by wlatopa, 21 February 2019 - 05:27 PM.


Ace42X #16 Posted 21 February 2019 - 05:37 PM

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View Postwlatopa, on 21 February 2019 - 05:25 PM, said:

B17 at those altitudes is very slow and refill the bombs is very slow.You have only 2 release and if you dont take a multiple targets,you are totally useless for the outcome and for your points ;).

 


Which is why higher is better in the 17D.  Solo-flipping a Cap by nailing six targets in one pass-through, and then reloading whilst slowly making way to next point is useful; failing to flip a point because the two or three sections you can nail at low altitude aren't enough to solo-cap is less useful, and that is what causes you to waste time reloading over a cap and doing a second fly-through rather than reloading whilst flying between caps.

Yep the B-17D is slower at high altitude - but not by much; and it still gets where it's going quicker than if it gets shot down by HF or AA and has to respawn.

Edited by Ace42X, 21 February 2019 - 05:37 PM.


wlatopa #17 Posted 21 February 2019 - 05:48 PM

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I don't like B17 serie,too slow,not so effectiveness,is a random bomber,not accurate from high quotes,if you have a direction,u can go only in this direction.

If you try to take a cap alone,u use all the time of battle and is enough an ennemy mr or attacker that take 1 target sometimes ,to destroy all your work.

One of the secret of bombing is the speed to take a cap,if you stay much time to refill bombs and you take 1 or 2 target every passage,you are totally useless for your team.

 



Ace42X #18 Posted 21 February 2019 - 06:37 PM

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I do not have the problems you seem to when flying the B-17D

Put on the improved fragmentation ordinance, make sure the pilot has the bombardier skill.  Climb to ~10,000 feet gently whilst en route to the target sector and start positioning yourself so that the sector's main objective and most valuable subsections are roughly lined up.
Go into bombsight-aiming mode, and straighten up for your run - you should have about 6 sections of ground targets roughly lined up if you count the AA installations - at least half of those should be high-value sections including the main objective.  What matters is that they're close to each other, not that they're perfectly lined up.

 

Start releasing the bombs at the correct point - make sure you learn where the reticule needs to be so you don't waste any "early" bombs; as soon as the lead point of your recticule leaves the last structure in the section either boost forward to the next; or else hit flaps, air-brakes, and A or D key in order to "swing" recticule left or right onto the next section of the base:  You might think this will cause the bomb to fly miles off course, but you'd be wrong - it will still land close enough under the reticule to smash the section.
Continue boosting or slowing-and-sweeping for the 3rd target which should be under your reticule just as your last bombs of your first release are emptying from your bomb-bay.  It's like a fire-hose or a paintbrush of bombs that will kill anything under the reticule.
Then adjust your path for the next section you want to target, using flaps/brakes/A&D if necessary, and do the same as above with your second release.

If done right you should have cleared 6 targets in one pass - including the special objective which constitutes half of a cap all on its very own - and flipped the point in one run.

Start heading to the next CP, and your bombs should be reloaded by the time you get there.

No need for a bombsight, and by covering such a large area with large-radius bombs, you've got a much better chance of catching enemy GAAs in your blast-radii too.  It works a treat - just need to have good control over your flight-speed so that you manage to cover multiple sites with one release.

I find this much more reliable than the post-nerf JU-88 which will often leave one or two tiny buildings in a sector alive if the RNG is against me -forcing multiple runs through the sector, which can force me to reload to finish capping; and which leaves me vulnerable to HP drain to AA because it has to bomb from a much lower level.

Load up a training map of "peripheral" with the mining facilities on it and one level 1 bot who'll ignore you - you can see for yourself how devastating a single run from a B17 at high altitude can be.


Edited by Ace42X, 21 February 2019 - 06:41 PM.


wlatopa #19 Posted 21 February 2019 - 07:21 PM

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My pilots have all 11 pt skills....;)

klbergmen #20 Posted 25 February 2019 - 01:08 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 21 February 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:

B-17's are a bit slow ... they have decent speed at opt. altitude but you're easy prey there.

You might give the light bombers a try first, like Pe-2 ...

The Pe-'s are really the last ones I would recommend. It is really not easy to have fun in them.

The US Bombers start with a weak one but then become better. The B-32 is really good. They are about laying bomb carpets - lots of bombs that cover a large area.

The soviet bombers start with two good bombers but end in the two Pe-2's which are not easy. The soviet premium bomber is good though and the only T8 bomber.

The german bombers are more about precision, but not all of them are the same. Their general drawback is weak defense.

The british have only one premium bomber which is good.







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