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Bots climbing ever higher


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apartclassic #1 Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:44 AM

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Was it ever explained why on earth were the bots - especially multiroles - scripted in the way that makes them keep climbing higher and higher? Why are they going to twice their optimal altitude, and just hang there on the verge of stalling? What is the purpose of this, apart from annoyance and waste of time?

Imho this is both pointless and ridiculous, especially so on lower/mid tiers where plane's performance suffers greatly when out of optimal altitude. I already mentioned encountering I-16 at 1500-2000m, and am under the impression I see more of this (maybe because they are now scripted also to 'take over zones more aggressively'?). For one, they are eternally on the verge of stalling - try approaching and shooting one, the first thing that happens is them going into a dive or stalling outright. I don't think it mimics players' performance, and it is basically exceptionally poor flying. For two, this renders a lot of those bots virtually useless. All they can achieve there is stalling, which happens immediately when being shot at and trying to maneuver. For three, they are an increasing annoyance, due to their extremely low speed and extreme accuracy. I don't suppose it's a refined and perfected tactics based on WW2 experience of pilots fighting either in exceptionaly fast planes (Me262) or defending against such planes (yes, it's a real issue, very fast plane versus a very slow one, and the difficulty in getting a firing solution or denying  getting one). So.. why? It's both unrealistic and inconvenient (of course I have an agenda, duh!). Is it that difficult to add a line in their script limiting the climb to some reasonable altitude, say their opti plus X meters? Their behaviour simply negates any differences or innate characteristics of each plane, their speeds and altitude performance. Just make them generic multirole fighter and let them climb. It's all like 'I r a plane, I needz to fly to the sun!', and to hell with the basic question of 'can I' or 'should I'. This concludes me morning rant, have a nice day :)



0berhessen #2 Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:53 AM

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View Postapartclassic, on 14 March 2019 - 06:44 AM, said:

Was it ever explained why on earth were the bots - especially multiroles - scripted in the way that makes them keep climbing higher and higher? Why are they going to twice their optimal altitude, and just hang there on the verge of stalling? What is the purpose of this, apart from annoyance and waste of time?

Imho this is both pointless and ridiculous, especially so on lower/mid tiers where plane's performance suffers greatly when out of optimal altitude. I already mentioned encountering I-16 at 1500-2000m, and am under the impression I see more of this (maybe because they are now scripted also to 'take over zones more aggressively'?). For one, they are eternally on the verge of stalling - try approaching and shooting one, the first thing that happens is them going into a dive or stalling outright. I don't think it mimics players' performance, and it is basically exceptionally poor flying. For two, this renders a lot of those bots virtually useless. All they can achieve there is stalling, which happens immediately when being shot at and trying to maneuver. For three, they are an increasing annoyance, due to their extremely low speed and extreme accuracy. I don't suppose it's a refined and perfected tactics based on WW2 experience of pilots fighting either in exceptionaly fast planes (Me262) or defending against such planes (yes, it's a real issue, very fast plane versus a very slow one, and the difficulty in getting a firing solution or denying  getting one). So.. why? It's both unrealistic and inconvenient (of course I have an agenda, duh!). Is it that difficult to add a line in their script limiting the climb to some reasonable altitude, say their opti plus X meters? Their behaviour simply negates any differences or innate characteristics of each plane, their speeds and altitude performance. Just make them generic multirole fighter and let them climb. It's all like 'I r a plane, I needz to fly to the sun!', and to hell with the basic question of 'can I' or 'should I'. This concludes me morning rant, have a nice day :)

Nothing in this game is based on realism. Nothing is based on real WWII tactics.

I agree that Bots seem to have an incredible accuracy and as well an incredible climbing rate.

I guess they use Motorcooling as Equipment and thats what they activate when climbing behind you. It gives Boost for additional 10 seconds - depending what amount of the original Boost is left and what kind of Multirole it is, it can be all together 30 seconds! of Boost.

As soon as they stall they are usually easy targets (from my experience).

Good luck hunting them


Edited by 0berhessen, 14 March 2019 - 07:54 AM.

There is an art to flying, or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ... Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, that presents the difficulties (Douglas Adams - Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)

GonerNL #3 Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:28 AM

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Noticed some very funny bot behavior lately ... like IL-10 and P-40 M-105 at 2000 meters dog-fighting ?! 

Opt altitude for those planes is less about 800 meters.



Horcan #4 Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:43 AM

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More things were changed to bots behaviors lately, from the fact that some of them gets dedicated to chase some human with the only purpose to take it out ( probably  due to that human being alive for too long and ruining his medal ), both by following a bombers even at 3-4k meters altitude or following a GAA at 50m even if it goes far outside of any nearby base, to the fact that almost no bot plane try to evade head on collision, even fighters and multiroles.

apartclassic #5 Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:58 AM

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I believe the scripting doesn't discriminate between planes. Yes, it's heavies chasing bombers and yes, it's mostly multis targetting the ground attackers, but outside of that all bots behave roughly the same. 'Must... climb... higher....', 'must.... cap... more.... aggresively....' - are the two directives driving all bots. The bots are increasingly just generic enemy planes, disregarding their plane specs (beside the type-specific differences mentioned above). I understand seeing ILs at 1000 meters, quite not long ago bots just didn't grasp the concept of going OVER an obstacle and were often stuck cruising in one spot forever (and it still happens sometimes), so the script was changed and they indeed started navigating more sensibly. Still, the problem is bots are... bots. They know no limits, 'climb higher' is infinite, so is the usage of boost, so is the trigger-time. The only limit imposed on bots is along the lines 'if it kills me before I kill it, disengage' - am I right, WG, or am I right? Bots are using the existing mechanics, but taking it beyond limits of what any reasonable human would do. All I'm asking for is imposing some limits - otherwise we are indeed moving towards 'generic fighter', 'generic heavy fighter' etc, because new players do learn those things from bots and fly any and all planes in exactly the same way. And my agenda, mentioned in the first post, is that I'm getting aggravated with seeing bots do things that nobody sane would - like climbing far above what their machine is designed for.

Frantiszek_ #6 Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:09 AM

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I am annoyed by heavy bots that attack bombers flying high. They really will die to fly behind you until it's not hitting you all over the map. Even a human player often forgives himself and he has to shoot you down and end. The strangest thing is that you often see situations where a heavy bot after shooting down you suddenly hangs. The fact that it shoots a bomber from 400-500 m and which does not hit anything, until it suddenly buries you with a series of 800m, that you will catch fire, damage the engine, etc., is completely unintelligible.

I think that WG is trying to balance things too hastily, but before they introduce it they will not check how it actually works.

The last example of a damage box for ground targets. They reduced 5%, which caused that bombers and assaults of lower levels often have a problem to do something more.
 


zen_monk_ #7 Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:06 PM

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View PostDiscontinued, on 15 March 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Can we insult bots,

 

 

No. I got banned for "st*u bots" at their opening mindless greet.

 

And I hate Hasso. Honestly, looks like they programmed "every Hasso will chase only zen monk".


stats were invented by Satan himself to suck the carefree fun out of gaming

Ykazumi #8 Posted 15 March 2019 - 03:34 PM

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View PostDiscontinued, on 15 March 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Can we insult bots,

 

Because I hate Vasily and Erskine 

 

Bots can insult and humiliate you in stead, but not the other  way around. Bots boast of themselves by calling themselves bots overlords.

I can see they are here more and more to overcome humans as superior AI warbots, with the wowp as a testing ground for their masters to improve unlimited capabilities of bots machines.Bots dare to call humans Xtupid,since they learned from humans in the same manner as the google bot 2 years ago. Bots have no mercy, no blood and no warmth,no compassion, whereas humans are real people with heart,blood and mind. I fear bots fighters/heavies are a big challenge to us human players and are a true enemy to us. WE the humans ought to help each other, protect and survive. Otherwise the WG will be filled with heartless coldblooded terminator machines. I temble to think.

sincerely,

 

 


Edited by Ykazumi, 16 March 2019 - 09:47 AM.


Senjougahara #9 Posted 16 March 2019 - 01:44 PM

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You see all kinds of crazy potato play from bots these days. I had a pancake follow my bomber up to 4800 meters, the pancake's service ceiling is 4000 meters, its guns have below 800 meter range. If it even tried to point up to shoot at me it would stall, but it would follow me for the entire match with zero chance of actually doing any damage. I've had bot F2H try the same thing and even though they can reach 4500 they're so slow up there they can't ever catch you. If you go down to 4000 meters you get light fighters and multiroles trying to get you with no hope, and even if they eventually get there once again you can just climb.

Also at high altitude bombers can actually turn faster than Me 262 HG II/III so they're even more hopless at getting you :trollface:

It's like bots have this obsession with being as high as possible all the time no matter what, and it's stupid because at that altitude they can do literally nothing, they can't catch you so they do zero damage, while a bomber can still drop bombs. Bombs will have terrible accuracy but you can still play, so the bot is removing itself from the gameplay while not removing you from the gameplay, it's a really suboptimal move on the bot's part.

 

By the way human players do exactly the same thing so it's not like bots are doing anything different :hiding:



Cruditatem #10 Posted 16 March 2019 - 01:48 PM

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View PostSenjougahara, on 16 March 2019 - 01:44 PM, said:

You see all kinds of crazy potato play from bots these days. I had a pancake follow my bomber up to 4800 meters, the pancake's service ceiling is 4000 meters, its guns have below 800 meter range. If it even tried to point up to shoot at me it would stall, but it would follow me for the entire match with zero chance of actually doing any damage. I've had bot F2H try the same thing and even though they can reach 4500 they're so slow up there they can't ever catch you. If you go down to 4000 meters you get light fighters and multiroles trying to get you with no hope, and even if they eventually get there once again you can just climb.

Also at high altitude bombers can actually turn faster than Me 262 HG II/III so they're even more hopless at getting you :trollface:

It's like bots have this obsession with being as high as possible all the time no matter what, and it's stupid because at that altitude they can do literally nothing, they can't catch you so they do zero damage, while a bomber can still drop bombs. Bombs will have terrible accuracy but you can still play, so the bot is removing itself from the gameplay while not removing you from the gameplay, it's a really suboptimal move on the bot's part.

 

By the way human players do exactly the same thing so it's not like bots are doing anything different :hiding:

 

I can agree with this. Happens often and i think always ...WTF...mine can't climb this high 




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