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Tu-1 Operation Order


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dreambill #41 Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:29 AM

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View PostSidus_Preclarum, on 16 April 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

Great. Just missed the "kill 15" mission by ONE, in a game where *3* human opponents quit early. When the hell is WG going to do something against that behaviour.

 

Its because of bad game design and mission requirements. If you have to get an efimov (for instance) and got killed in the middle of trying, there is no reason to loose your time for the rest of the battle.

We well about all these requirements for missions years now. Nobody listens. Missions with do this in any amount of battles (additive), promote playing the game. Kill 5 planes with rear gunner in one battle destroy it.


Edited by dreambill, 16 April 2019 - 10:30 AM.


DoomHerald #42 Posted 16 April 2019 - 11:33 AM

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Little tutorial for obtaining some medals or completing some dumb missions.

1. Efimov - Pick t7, 8 or 10 USSR or t10 German GAA and pray for 1-2 human players per team and a map without too much trees (the desert one is the best, Plateau is also good).

2. Kozhedub, Akamatsu, Lambert - pick t4 or 5 fighter/multi with high maneuverability and pray for a map with repairing airfield, to be top tier and 1-2-3 humans per team only.

3. 15 (or 20) kills - pick a good heavy and pray for a map with CCs. When enemy team cap one CC - chase bomber waves.

4. Kill 5 planes with turret - pick a bomber (I prefer them over GAAs for that purpose cos bombers can have several turrets to fire forward as well) like B-32, A-26B or RB-17 and do the stupidity to fly over an airfield on alt like 500-1000 metres to kill everything ppssible. Forget about bombing that game, use equipment and/or skills to increase the turet range and play like a muppet till u succeed.



zen_monk_ #43 Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:06 PM

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Mercifully they've removed the worst of all from dailies, "assist in xxx kills". You had to fly like an absolute moron, not kill but cripple and hope someone will finish it. Frustration on 11.

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elias_the_great #44 Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:20 PM

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How i did most missions:

 

  • Efimov:Used my IL-40P and went where my bombers where going...german bombers tend to leave damaged targets often...you go and get free capture points.I got mine second try.
  • McGuire/Lambert/Akamatsu:you can get these medals by killing planes inside sectors,doesnt matter if you attack or defend those sectors as long as you stay alive. I got the Akamatsu flying the my A6M1...its easy with every low tier Zero sicne you kill the defending bots super fast (in T4 the Zero has the best firepower out of all fighters because of the cannons).
  • 15/17 kills:easy to do with high tier Heavy fighter..specially a t10 one(like the 262 or the XF-90)...most of the times if you play well you wont die on them and killing bombers are easy kills
  • 5 rear gun kills :since the start of the game you fly somewhat high for an attack plane or somewhat low for a bomber. I did it with my IL-40P:I went to CCs and airfields and damaged the air defence aircraft with my guns...i left them 10 hp and then turned away and shot them with my rear gun... I did the same with the attack planes of the enemy team,shot them,left them nearly dead and turned around and finish them with the rear gun...i got 7 kills with the rear gun that game...Important to note is that it doesnt matter if they are enemy team planes or defence planes,every plane you kill matters...I tried it first with the B-32 and i managed to get 2 kills maximoum and then moved over to the IL-40P and did it first try with the ay i mentioned
  • KozheDAB: The hardest medal to get by far,since its not always up to you but how good or bad the teams are...If the game ends before squal line you just wasted your time...Devs need to do something about it: Squal hits 15% of the games i play(and i am not mentioning these that end the moment squal hits,but the ones that actually get to play in the squal line) and both surviving and killing 5 planes is extremely hard... HOWEVER i got this medal as well :P Its easier with high tier Heavy fighters!!Just try not to snowball the game too much,because the match will end too fast.

 

In conclusion,

All the missions can be done by high tier planes easily, i did all of them with my IL-40P and my XF-90... apart from the Akamatsu that i used my A6M1...As for the plane...i dont like it...Really strong guns but drags its feet,doesnt go that high up...doesnt turn well at all...gets pounded by tier 8s every other game...so its ok if you like the Soviet snipe guns but if you dont,then there is no reason to be mad about not getting it...



Navradaran #45 Posted 16 April 2019 - 02:26 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 16 April 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

 

Do I understand correctly that you believe that during active Operation Order the list of available maps is limited? 

 

Dear Blindfold,

It's not matter of belief what maps I have played. I don't pray to my wowp -client when I start to play (maybe I should). Just reporting what has happened to me personally about 3 days in a row (let's put it over 12 hours of tries now). Having played conquest mode nearly 700 hours and couple events on top, It's fairly easy to notice when something changes or is "abnormal" for lack of better word compared to "bread & butter" operations in this game. I study this game and other ones as well and discuss things happening within (European) servers that other pilots have also noticed. We all understand that this is a business and 'spice needs to flow', but at the same time we are warning not to go too far with all the marketing- & finance department gimmics that are used every day and probably will be implemented in the future. Usually our warnings fall to deaf ears.

In this game there are many ways to push people to purchase tokens among other things (special & normal) for example by using map selection, matchmaking and bot behavior in various situations and I won't delve those subjects here. Collectors will buy every plane in range because that is what collectors tend to do. But to insinuate that pilots, who do not even have credit card, have possibility to get these planes with hard work...without reading the fine print: (IF by 'random' you get to fly just the right map with just the right mix of opponents with just right skillsets [players & bot] and the Moon is in conjunction with Mercury and Pluto...)  constitutes a fraud of a kind. And I know that this lies in 'grey area' so that nobody can be sued or it would be futile, since we don't have to log into game if we don't want to.

 

In short: We are aviation buffs (we have to be) and we aspire to get our feet off the ground, but most of us are not stupid (or stupid rich). Meanwhile WG's next harvest is only 3,5 quarters away and they have a target to fill. Balance is required but long time cultivation of customer base is not on the agenda.

 

Off-topic rant:

This game really needs more human players, badly. During last 6 months that I have been (~700 hours) active I have also noticed that most new players that come in to test this game leave aghast because of all the bugs that haven't been fixed after the launch of 2.0. They won't come back until everything is pristine because of their initial impression. And I get that this takes resources since competition among online games is hard. Things are moving slowly but personally I have experienced lot less bugs lately. Ok, my sounds disappear once in a while but at least I won't get my main gun/s turned upwards anymore during an attack run and making it impossible to hit anything in the middle of a game... Still playing in standard mode though, because in HD I need to kill wowp -process to be able to get into a match. And when (in HD) I would get in, I had been downed once already yielding middle-sector capture process to enemy team and an easy kill to some lucky pilot... Maybe next year I'll check if that is fixed... if you get my meaning.

 


Edited by Navradaran, 16 April 2019 - 02:35 PM.


elgreco2000 #46 Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:42 PM

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I apologize for being off topic but i needed to vent a little or a lot about something that happened to me in game. I have been playing this game 6 years and I cant remember ever being attacked from behind by a team mate!!! This was by someone called grzegorzw 291 from S-D18 (shadow 2018) clan. Obviously it ruined my game as it was done repeatedly. Just for the record I was in a bomber and he was flying a heavy so he was doing some "target practice" I figure. I reported him and I wonder if there will be any form of reprimand in this kind of situation. I also messaged his team captain since he is an officer in the team and an embarrassment to his clan! If I sound like I am over reacting it's because this made me angry...boy did it make me angry!!!

blindfoId #47 Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:18 AM

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View PostNavradaran, on 16 April 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

 

 

There's no technical possibility to limit map selection depending on Operation Order status or anything else. The only thing that affects the list of maps is a game mode. 



RoyalFlyingCorps #48 Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:17 AM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 16 April 2019 - 05:57 AM, said:

Guys, this Akamatsu, Efimov, Kozhedub are not even the worse in this missions. We have a mission "kill 5 aerial targets with your rear gunner in a single battle". It will be such fun...

 

Acknowledging that not only the medal missions require you to be lucky, I will relate the experience of a very good player.  He achieved the 5 kills with a gunner result in one game.  He flew his B-32 at a lower than usual level.  However, he also took 8 hours of play to get the Akamatsu medal.  I helped him with the Efimov by keeping his tail clear and crashing on bases to flip them to the enemy (WoWP team take note; it is not a good idea to encourage players to help the enemy team in this way).  The Kozhedub took him several hours, but not as many, as the Akamatsu.
 

I come back to the original point I made.  The WoWP team needs to find a way of producing missions that do not rely on luck.  Annoying players by making them play endlessly in the hope of a lucky result or by forcing them to open their wallets is bad for the game.



apartclassic #49 Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:34 AM

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Respecting all the above posts and the authors, in my opinion there's only one item on the list that is very much beyond our control, and it's the Kozhedub medal. Everything else is more or less totally achieveable, by choosing the most suitable plane for the task and focusing on the mission. Several pilots I know got the plane without spending certificates, even though some steps took more tries. Some had it on Sunday, some a day or two later. Most TU-1's I see are already specialized (praise the tokens!). It is, imho, very much depending on player's skill, a bit on the map and MM, a bit on the plane. I found this chain a lot easier than Vampire or B.V. chain, with only the Kozhedub being so random (but there are people who got it on first try, being lucky).

 

My point is - please be a bit more aware of what's in the mechanics (Kozhedub) and what's in the pilot's skill range. In most cases you guys are relating personal experience, not innate game issues - I really mean no disrespect here. Even with that medal which I will not name yet again, the element of randomness is acceptable. It doesn't push anyone into sealclubbing on low tier, doesn't force suicidal actions etc etc. All it takes is control of the battle and surviving till the end. I agree it would be nicer if it was all within our own grasp, all depended on our 'gudness', but I can take some frustration every now and then. Random, as in 'game'. Otherwise we might just ask WG to simply give away those planes based on our stats, because we deserve them, having played X battles, spent Y time in the game or getting Z w/r ratio. But then where would the challenge be, right?


Edited by apartclassic, 17 April 2019 - 10:34 AM.

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zen_monk_ #50 Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:42 AM

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Regarding Kozhedub, it can be achieved rather easy (hell, if I can do it, anyone can) but for it you need two factors:

 

1 - it has to be a map with an airbase with repairs

2 - the game must last beyond the squall line

 

Play carefully, cap and keep the airbase, stay alive until the squall line, keep repairing and killing.

 

I wouldn't put any effort in purposely trying Kozhedub on a map without an airbase with repairs.


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RoyalFlyingCorps #51 Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:18 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 17 April 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

Even with that medal which I will not name yet again, the element of randomness is acceptable.

 

I flatly disagree.

 

The WoWP team needs look no further than the WoT marathon for a tier 8 premium tank for an example of how to set up a scheme that rewards skill, commitment or both without the need for four or five slices of luck or the purchase of certificates.


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 17 April 2019 - 12:20 PM.


prawiejakzywiec666 #52 Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:26 PM

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The problem is that the less experienced NEW players do not have the possibility to obtain one of these premium planes. Why? Because they do not have high tier GAA aircraft (Efimov) or B32 (5 rear gun kills) in order to get the prize. Kozhedub is also a problem if the game ends quickly (before the squall line). Personally I find Akamatsu rather easy to obtain and Efimov almost impossible to get. 
I think there has to be a change implemented in the operation orders in order the wider community to have fun and participate in the event. 

As said several times before - there is no fun but frustration if a player (even experienced one) tries for 6-8h to obtain ONE medal in order to move on...


chikken


elias_the_great #53 Posted 17 April 2019 - 12:47 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 17 April 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

 

I flatly disagree.

 

The WoWP team needs look no further than the WoT marathon for a tier 8 premium tank for an example of how to set up a scheme that rewards skill, commitment or both without the need for four or five slices of luck or the purchase of certificates.

 

I dont know a thing about WoT,but i would suggest that single game missions and medals should be available from the start and independent from the mission chain,leaving only the grindy missions to be done in a speciphic order.(Similar to weekend missions we got now,that can be completed in any order the player wishes...)I had several occations(in many mission chains) where in the first mission that needs to win a game(for example),i managed to get an Akamatsu straight away, but when the time came to get it in order to progress the mission chain, i couldnt get it for hours! Same goes with "X number of kills in a game" or "X number of captue points" that you happen to get Efimovs/Marsilles/McCambels etc. but they are wasted.... not to mention Kozhnedubs...that i havent gotten for months,MONTHS!! before i finally got 4 in a day.......Certain medals must change because are too hard even for vets to get (Gulobev,Doolittle,Kozhnedub,Gabreski).

apartclassic #54 Posted 17 April 2019 - 01:16 PM

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View Postelias_the_great, on 17 April 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

 

I dont know a thing about WoT,but i would suggest that single game missions and medals should be available from the start and independent from the mission chain,leaving only the grindy missions to be done in a speciphic order.(Similar to weekend missions we got now,that can be completed in any order the player wishes...)I had several occations(in many mission chains) where in the first mission that needs to win a game(for example),i managed to get an Akamatsu straight away, but when the time came to get it in order to progress the mission chain, i couldnt get it for hours! Same goes with "X number of kills in a game" or "X number of captue points" that you happen to get Efimovs/Marsilles/McCambels etc. but they are wasted.... not to mention Kozhnedubs...that i havent gotten for months,MONTHS!! before i finally got 4 in a day.......Certain medals must change because are too hard even for vets to get (Gulobev,Doolittle,Kozhnedub,Gabreski).

 

Some medals ARE intended to be hard to get. They are medals, after all. It would be fun to swim in medals for sure, but they would become cheap currency very fast if they were easy. You know how it goes, when she's cheap... I'm just stating my opinion that a certain level of difficulty and/or randomness is definitely needed. If we could get those sweet rare medals or rare planes in every battle, what is there to achieve anymore? Statpadding on low tiers (some do)? Sealclubbing (some do)? Playing other games and coming to WoWP only for events or mission chains (some do that as well)? As it is now, I believe the medals do set some people apart, do prove skill and/or experience in this game. Knowing a bit about perceptions and psychology, I can safely bet we get the same number of medals on average during a mission chain as outside of it - only the perception changes. We don't get them when we need them - then inevitably comes the conclusion that something has to be changed. Yes, newer players or less experienced players, or less skilled ones, will have difficulties achieving certain goals - and it's precisely as it is meant to be. We are playing for rewards, for things that do require work to get. The harder it is, the bigger the reward feels. If it was raining tokens and planes every single day, we would get dissafected all too soon. If one intends to grind for a high tier premium plane, one has to have the tools. Do not forget it's an enterprise, not a charity. The premium planes we receive are being sold for real money - we can save money, but we need to commit time. Simple exchange. Personally I like it, I like the choice I'm given. Pay or play, up to you. We are not pushed into buying tokens/certificates, but we CAN, if we so desire, and skip the tedious part. If the prize is valuable, the stakes are high. I can live with that.

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klbergmen #55 Posted 17 April 2019 - 02:28 PM

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View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 17 April 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

As said several times before - there is no fun but frustration if a player (even experienced one) tries for 6-8h to obtain ONE medal in order to move on...

 

That's why it would be good to look at how WoT is doing these events. In WoT you have two possible ways to fulfill each step. The first is a hard to achieve one and only available in high Tier tanks (for really good players) and the second is a grindy one that everybody can achieve with enough effort. If somebody still doesn't reach the hard to achieve target after 6-8h he will have achieved the grindy one and that's enough - he can move on.

For example: do a high number of kills in one T9-10 battle or a higher number of kills in any number of battles.



elias_the_great #56 Posted 17 April 2019 - 03:24 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 17 April 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

I agree with you, but certain medals are not always up to you to get...If you smash the enemy team, you wont have the oportunity to get the Kozhnedub.,You wont get the Gulobev because you lost(even though you might had 20k score that game)I am not refering to every medal, but some of them. And the player skill and seperation doesnt neceseraly come with how many,different medals you have, but how many times you got them! Gabreski can only be done by Hunter and Thunerstreak(which i have none!). It is about player skill and right tools and i agree that players should get better,but certain medals could have been deseigned better...I am not the best, i am not the worst,but its not about just me or you,but the people that still play the game. If someone,like me,sees a mission like "get a Gulobev" and heads on his account and sees that he has 5 of them...and has played 2000+ battles...he will say f*** that.People pay when they want to,not when they are forced to and given no chance....(Still no offence just discussing the averege player that doenst have all the tools he needs to get the candy.You start from somewhere and you reach the top and what you get on the way there it will surely help you)



apartclassic #57 Posted 17 April 2019 - 03:51 PM

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View Postelias_the_great, on 17 April 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

I agree with you, but certain medals are not always up to you to get...If you smash the enemy team, you wont have the oportunity to get the Kozhnedub.,You wont get the Gulobev because you lost(even though you might had 20k score that game)I am not refering to every medal, but some of them. And the player skill and seperation doesnt neceseraly come with how many,different medals you have, but how many times you got them! Gabreski can only be done by Hunter and Thunerstreak(which i have none!). It is about player skill and right tools and i agree that players should get better,but certain medals could have been deseigned better...I am not the best, i am not the worst,but its not about just me or you,but the people that still play the game. If someone,like me,sees a mission like "get a Gulobev" and heads on his account and sees that he has 5 of them...and has played 2000+ battles...he will say f*** that.People pay when they want to,not when they are forced to and given no chance....(Still no offence just discussing the averege player that doenst have all the tools he needs to get the candy.You start from somewhere and you reach the top and what you get on the way there it will surely help you)

 

Six of one, half a dozen of the other :) I got Gabresky on Sea Hawk and P-43, and several other planes - it's the pilot, not the plane, in my opinion. I do not mean to belittle anyone, but there will always be a difference in achievements between players, and whereas I am generally an egalitarian, in cases like that I turn vehemently elitist. Aristocratic even, by golly! I despise the old Soviet and modern American tendency of simplifying things to make them accessible for everyone. Hell no, not everyone can be an astronaut or astrophysicist. We can try - and sometimes we get the medals, sometimes we don't. If there was no challenge, no incentive, we could've as well stayed on the darn savannah in Africa, or just kept playing Minesweeper. When veterans have a hard time accomplishing something, it means the challenge is real, and it's the sweeter. Heck, I really did go and got me cookies or chocolate for each of the Gabresky's I received. 13 of them (yes, it's bragging) in over 15k battles post-2.0 (and this is a shame to admit...). Granted, I did not go out of my way to get them, they sort of happened, but it goes to prove they are obtainable, more so when someone sets out to do so. My clan buddies made an Ace on a ground attacker (20 aerial kills) or Gabresky on a bomber (yes, a bomber) - but it was a dedicated effort, hours spent doing that. Because these are the real challenge, teh real s**t. Granted, some planes are more suited to some tasks, but in the end - in my humble opinion - it mostly comes down to skill. Broadly defined skill, not only in flying the plane, but controlling the battle, influencing caps, avoiding threats, calculating the odds and points. Anyone can wiggle the mouse or joystick, but to do it 'gud' is a different beast altogether, and does deserve its own set of rewards. Just like the mentioned rare medals.

 

I certainly do not advocate making the process harder, nor am I against changes to missions (like introducing scaling or separating newbies from vets). I only mean to say that in my opinion, for me, the medals' requirements are just fine, even though sometimes seemingly prohibitive.


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apartclassic #58 Posted 18 April 2019 - 12:04 AM

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To further prove the point, here's some auto-promotion

 

 

It is the pilot foremostly. Plane is secondary.


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Dismal #59 Posted 18 April 2019 - 02:57 AM

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View Postapartclassic, on 18 April 2019 - 12:04 AM, said:

 

It is the pilot foremostly. Plane is secondary.

 

Hi 

You wrote a lot of beautiful and correct words. I met you and your team yesterday in battle. I'm sorry, but now I can't believe what you said and your medals. Hope 23 took yesterday the TU-1 "...Broadly defined skill, not only in flying the plane, but controlling the battle, influencing caps, avoiding threats, calculating the odds and points"©  Absolutelly right!!!!!



apartclassic #60 Posted 18 April 2019 - 06:47 AM

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View PostDismal, on 18 April 2019 - 02:57 AM, said:

 

Hi 

You wrote a lot of beautiful and correct words. I met you and your team yesterday in battle. I'm sorry, but now I can't believe what you said and your medals. Hope 23 took yesterday the TU-1 "...Broadly defined skill, not only in flying the plane, but controlling the battle, influencing caps, avoiding threats, calculating the odds and points"©  Absolutelly right!!!!!

 

You met us when we were helping a clan buddy with one of the steps for Tu-1. He got the mission done in 1st try, because in that battle there were 5 from our clan, and we cooperated to do it. Yeah, the weird things we do when doing missions....

Edited by apartclassic, 18 April 2019 - 06:47 AM.

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