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flight model (stall) changes in 2.0.12

stall bnz

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Gentle1 #1 Posted 25 April 2019 - 09:57 AM

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sorry i just have to say... are you kinding me? The BnZ planes already have a huge disadvantage now , as there is no more dispersion firing upward (used to be your aim got worse when firing up / BNZ version of turning out of firing range). And now this:

Flight Model:

Aircraft behavior in stall has been changed. Stall will now be more controlled and easy to recover from.

Edited The fighters that rely on this tactic litteraly just loose all their legitimitation. If i climb up hoping for the guy in his TNB behind me to come up and stall while evfading loosing speed he just firing up with 0 penealty and now the stall is just gonna be this mini bump. Why dont you remove the german planes entriely then? they are now thx to this USELSS.

It was already hard enogh since you implementet that the roll reduces your speed now with this addition you might as well remove 09's entirely they have no legitimitation the spits will stick with them anyhow since i have to roll and loose speed (my advantage) because he has no penalty shooting up and now even if he stall's , my advantage is being completly taken away. WELL THOUGHT THROUGH WG

 

Flight model

Aircraft behavior in stall has been changed. Stall will now become more controlled and easy to recover from.


Edited by Asklepi0s, 13 May 2019 - 02:25 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.

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RoyalFlyingCorps #2 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:27 AM

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This is part of the problem of the WoWP team not being specific about changes.  My feeling is that even if a plane can recover from a stall a bit more quickly, in the situation you describe it will still be in a low energy state, that is, slow and not manoeuvring well, and you will still have plenty of time to shoot it to bits.

 

But, because the team is not specific, I can't be sure.



apartclassic #3 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:34 AM

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Think of the bots, which are always close to stalling, because the 'needs to climb higher!' script. As in, bots that don't stall anymore or insta-recover. Oh my, this is going to be heaps of fun....    NOTE: we didn't see it in action yet. Might not be as bad as it sounds. Let's see how it actually works in game first, shall we?

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Gentle1 #4 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:34 AM

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I'm leaning very strongly towards my interpertation as BnZ AC have been getting worse and worse since about 1.5 . So i do believe they are going to in this case buff the TnB by them no longer suffering to mutch from the stall

Edited by Gentle1, 25 April 2019 - 10:35 AM.

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"Dem untergebenen geziehmt es nicht an die wohldurchdachten Anweisungen seines Vorgesetzten , seinen eigenen beschränkten Maßstab anzusetzen und in dünkelhaftem Übermut sich ein Urteil über dieselben anzumaßen."

Preußische Millitärverordnung 1781

apartclassic #5 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:37 AM

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View PostGentle1, on 25 April 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

I'm leaning very strongly towards my interpertation as BnZ AC have been getting worse and worse since about 1.5 . So i do believe they are going to in this ase buff the TnB by them no lonjger suffering to mutch from the stall

 

With that I agree wholeheartedly. BnZ nowadays is a dying art, and finally no kid in his superduper Spitfire has a reason to complain about those noobs in 109s killing them from above. Except, it got dumbed down so much... Hey everyone, take your planes, no matter which type they are, and let's happily turn around each other on treetop level! Yay, yeah, how wonderful.... not.

 

edit: in my opinion it wasn't the faulty mechanics 'ruining' it for mid/low altitude planes, it was the players getting caught stalling so easily. Not mechanics, but skill (or rather lack of it). The outcry lead to changes to the game itself - not necessarily liked by me. I still remember the difference in behaviour between 109 line and Spitfire line when it came to altitude, climb and energy retention, and in my opinion it was a lot cooler back then. Sure, more demanding and sometimes more frustrating (those 'I can't catch him and he's gonna drop down on me any second now, darn darn darn' moments), but cool.


Edited by apartclassic, 25 April 2019 - 10:46 AM.

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RoyalFlyingCorps #6 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:47 AM

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Well, it is true that the dominant play style pre-version 2, BnZ, is far from dominant now.  I think that's part of the reason the 1.9 diehards loathe this version so much, because their favourite toy was taken away from them.

apartclassic #7 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:57 AM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 25 April 2019 - 10:47 AM, said:

Well, it is true that the dominant play style pre-version 2, BnZ, is far from dominant now.  I think that's part of the reason the 1.9 diehards loathe this version so much, because their favourite toy was taken away from them.

 

TnB is the thing nowadays, and it's... boring... BnZ is still viable, but a lot harder to do, especially with the damage mechanics so different (as soon as you're hit, your engine explodes - try climbing then...). On the positive side is relatively higher satisfaction when you pull it off. On the negative side is nullifying differences between radically different planes, but I complain about it often enough. Anyway, let's wait till the patch drops, then test it live and see for ourselves.

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apartclassic #8 Posted 25 April 2019 - 01:37 PM

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Mkay...... This is a sad joke... There is no stall, practically speaking. I took the Fw190-D out to test, as it used to be (!) a plane with notoriously long stall recovery time. I stalled, and soon as the nose dropped down below horizon, the plane was controllable again. Wow! Amazing! Great! Except, no, it's bollocks.

 

1) Yet again WG caved in to complaints of people who couldn't deal with an element of the game. Mind you, a real element, realistic flight mechanics. Some players disliked it, they complained, WG 'fixed' - no more stall, no more complaints, I bet the paying population will increase tenfold now. The 'complaint -> fix' chain is absurd - poorly judged. Make it more arcade to make it more accessible, right? Horrible way to go WG, one is tempted to say it's a way down the drain and towards 'yet another plane game with silly mechanics'. That's only my personal opinion though, and I know it will be disregarded by the devs.

2) Stalling in a tested and perfected plane was - both in reality and in the game - a punishment for lack of skill. One misjudges the plane's capabilities, forgets to controll angle of attack and speed - boom, here comes the stall. Naturally it was used by pilots - again both in reality and in the game - as a tool to achieve victory. Take away that punishment, promote ... I'm at a lack of words, actually. Truly, anyone can fly. What's next, no damage from tree or ground collision? Removing ram damage alltogether? Surely someone is complaining about it, so what are we waiting for?

3) I understand that it makes certain planes easier to fly, like the Fw I just tested. I enjoyed the experience a lot more, it was noticeably more controllable. You know the result? 15 air kills, dying only once. I'm not so sure the other team enjoyed the change. It's a double-edged sword, and I believe the change is unwarranted. It changes the balance of power, and consequently will change the game more than anticipated.

4) Last but not least - the bots. Yes, them, the terminators with uber accuracy and access to player input. Try stalling them now, when you have one on your tail. Yes you guessed it, they don't stall. They simply recover half a second later and keep pounding you. I know, I know, situational awareness and all that, prevent such situations from happening. Thing is, it's unavoidable, unless you shy away from fight/bots entirely. You get the point.

 

I wanted to see this particular change in effect before commenting. I have seen it. Thank you, but no. Cons outweight pros for me. Sadly, noone in charge will listen.

 

EDIT: just you wait for the professional bomber drivers to start complaining that there is no way they can shake off pursuers now


Edited by apartclassic, 25 April 2019 - 02:13 PM.

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GonerNL #9 Posted 25 April 2019 - 01:45 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 25 April 2019 - 02:37 PM, said:

Truly, anyone can fly. 

 

What's new ?

Wowp was already a joke regarding aerodynamics. It's arcade ... 

I flew some more realistic flight combat sims and you were lucky to survive a stall at all !! You either fluttered down to mother Earth or you were shot down floating about.



apartclassic #10 Posted 25 April 2019 - 01:52 PM

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In my opinion WoWP was arcade enough already, it evolved this way. But it's going even further into the abyss now. The change itself might make the game easier for some, but on the other hand veteran pilots will be even deadlier now.

Edited by apartclassic, 25 April 2019 - 02:01 PM.

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Gentle1 #11 Posted 25 April 2019 - 08:39 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 25 April 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

 

What's new ?

Wowp was already a joke regarding aerodynamics. It's arcade ... 

I flew some more realistic flight combat sims and you were lucky to survive a stall at all !! You either fluttered down to mother Earth or you were shot down floating about.

 

thats like how this game was in closed beta, if you were in a stall nose up , you were really lucky if you ever came out of it and didnt just fall to the ground like a rock

 


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"Dem untergebenen geziehmt es nicht an die wohldurchdachten Anweisungen seines Vorgesetzten , seinen eigenen beschränkten Maßstab anzusetzen und in dünkelhaftem Übermut sich ein Urteil über dieselben anzumaßen."

Preußische Millitärverordnung 1781

apartclassic #12 Posted 25 April 2019 - 09:20 PM

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As for bots - I was right. They are ridiculous now. So, thank you for a fantastic feature... Vertical BnZ is too harsh for our kids, let's eliminate it altogether. Wow.

Edited by apartclassic, 25 April 2019 - 09:39 PM.

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RoyalFlyingCorps #13 Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:05 PM

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If what I read above means that you cannot climb away from a pursuer then turn on him when he stalls, the WoWP team has made a really bad mistake.

 

If it also means that you can stall in a tight, slow turn fight, but not suffer the consequences of loss of control, it’s an even worse mistake.


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 26 April 2019 - 02:07 PM.


apartclassic #14 Posted 28 April 2019 - 05:04 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 26 April 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

If what I read above means that you cannot climb away from a pursuer then turn on him when he stalls, the WoWP team has made a really bad mistake.

 

If it also means that you can stall in a tight, slow turn fight, but not suffer the consequences of loss of control, it’s an even worse mistake.

 

That's exactly what it means. There is virtually no loss of control now, or it is so easy to recover from it makes it insignificant. I managed to stall my pursuers a couple of times, but before I turn back on them, they're out of stalling and we're engaging in a head-on. That's what I termed as 'ridiculous' earlier in this thread - stalling and recovery is faster than a controlled vertical reverse.

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RoyalFlyingCorps #15 Posted 28 April 2019 - 09:02 PM

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Really stupid decision by the WoWP team.  This is a change they must reverse.

Gentle1 #16 Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:45 PM

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yeap, as i feared now the stall is nothing, i tried to outclimb a spit 1 in my 09 emil and like apartclassic mentioned , now he just dipped down and by the time i went face down he was laready back up on me and finished off my few hp i had left. No dispersion firing upward, rolling (not turning) now reduces speed and pathetic stall makes BnZ fighters now useless, heavies might not entirely be as bad, becuase of HP poll and alot of firepower, but american and german fighters now suck more then ever before. Not only do they most of the time have infirior firepower to other planes of their tier now litteraly all strenghts are gone.

I am most displeased and hope they will rethink their decision.

 

Gentle1


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"Dem untergebenen geziehmt es nicht an die wohldurchdachten Anweisungen seines Vorgesetzten , seinen eigenen beschränkten Maßstab anzusetzen und in dünkelhaftem Übermut sich ein Urteil über dieselben anzumaßen."

Preußische Millitärverordnung 1781

paca_madaidhean #17 Posted 26 June 2019 - 11:34 AM

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yep bring back the stall turn 

I used it to great effect 

now very slow turn at the top  bang your dead 

rather than quick flip  straight down boom they are dead 

how about hirering a flight sim programmer

from nasa :teethhappy:



paca_madaidhean #18 Posted 03 August 2019 - 07:29 PM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQpnzMJRtCU  this is how I would like a stall turn 

paca_madaidhean #19 Posted 29 August 2019 - 04:39 PM

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would love to do the stall turn as per the intro film   :)

 



Ziptop #20 Posted 03 September 2019 - 10:14 AM

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View Postpaca_madaidhean, on 03 August 2019 - 08:29 PM, said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQpnzMJRtCU  this is how I would like a stall turn 

This! I want this back!







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