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flight model (stall) changes in 2.0.12

stall bnz

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paca_madaidhean #21 Posted 08 September 2019 - 08:55 PM

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yep I spotted that one too love to do that to  nice one  ziptop 

Frateras #22 Posted 18 October 2019 - 11:19 AM

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View PostGentle1, on 25 April 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

sorry i just have to say... are you kinding me? The BnZ planes already have a huge disadvantage now , as there is no more dispersion firing upward (used to be your aim got worse when firing up / BNZ version of turning out of firing range). And now this:

Flight Model:

Aircraft behavior in stall has been changed. Stall will now be more controlled and easy to recover from.

Edited The fighters that rely on this tactic litteraly just loose all their legitimitation. If i climb up hoping for the guy in his TNB behind me to come up and stall while evfading loosing speed he just firing up with 0 penealty and now the stall is just gonna be this mini bump. Why dont you remove the german planes entriely then? they are now thx to this USELSS.

It was already hard enogh since you implementet that the roll reduces your speed now with this addition you might as well remove 09's entirely they have no legitimitation the spits will stick with them anyhow since i have to roll and loose speed (my advantage) because he has no penalty shooting up and now even if he stall's , my advantage is being completly taken away. WELL THOUGHT THROUGH WG

 

Flight model

Aircraft behavior in stall has been changed. Stall will now become more controlled and easy to recover from.

I dfisagree, because a Spitfire already has lost 2 third of her life points after the first frontal contact with my BF 109. If I forget to BnZ (because I Don't need it normally) then I'm done with 90% likelihood in case of a good human opponent. Meanwhile I just ignore the Spitfire and  try to reach the next target.



Frateras #23 Posted 18 October 2019 - 11:26 AM

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Yes especially the lomcevak ...

ThinderChief #24 Posted 13 March 2020 - 05:33 AM

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View PostGentle1, on 25 April 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

sorry i just have to say... are you kinding me? The BnZ planes already have a huge disadvantage now , as there is no more dispersion firing upward (used to be your aim got worse when firing up / BNZ version of turning out of firing range). And now this:

Flight Model:

Aircraft behavior in stall has been changed. Stall will now be more controlled and easy to recover from.

Edited The fighters that rely on this tactic litteraly just loose all their legitimitation. If i climb up hoping for the guy in his TNB behind me to come up and stall while evfading loosing speed he just firing up with 0 penealty and now the stall is just gonna be this mini bump. Why dont you remove the german planes entriely then? they are now thx to this USELSS.

It was already hard enogh since you implementet that the roll reduces your speed now with this addition you might as well remove 09's entirely they have no legitimitation the spits will stick with them anyhow since i have to roll and loose speed (my advantage) because he has no penalty shooting up and now even if he stall's , my advantage is being completly taken away. WELL THOUGHT THROUGH WG

 

Flight model

Aircraft behavior in stall has been changed. Stall will now become more controlled and easy to recover from.


Yeah, I noticed a few things more relevant to sci-fi than aviation.

 

Stall characteristics are funny, completely unrealistic, for a start, aircraft do not stall tail first, not those stable A-Cs anyway, their center of gravity is forward of their center of lift, they will always naturally nose dive when they stall even with the stick full aft.

 

Second propeller torque plays a huge role in a stall, as well as aileron which can trigger a spin if one uses them instead of rudder, so those models does not behave at all like aircraft.

 

Maneuver (that I learned to pass when I was 16 on REAL aircraft) such as the STALL TURN are impossible when in fact if your aircraft has better high altitude characteristics than your opponent, they are a very dangerous weapon in your arsenal, in a couple of seconds you're downward 180* on your opponent tail, and in full control, with energy to spare.

 

Then, bar the fact that WoWP keeps naming the Messerschmitt Bf when Adolf Galland refers to them as ME in his book (The First And The Last), they actually had better stall characteristics than the Spitfire, which had a better sustained turn rate, due to their leading edge slats, it's instantaneous vs sustained turn rates we're looking at, at least for the Spitfire Mk 1 vs ME 109 E part.

 

Galland explained that an experienced pilot such as himself could "square" a turn inside the Spitfire turn radius, using instantaneous turn rate then unloading after firing, imagine a square inside of a circle, you have the idea, the aircraft would buffet but will be safer at this end of its envelope than the Spitfire.

 

Pass on the full Fw debacle when it comes to simulating their flight envelope and characteristics, much better vertical maneuverability than most other aircraft, rendered completely useless by what I was told is compression of airspace, meaning one cannot use the forte of the Fw at all.

 

Lately, I played the Emil, Friedrich and Gustav, I got on rather well with the two first, but I admit that I completely gave up on the Fw, and it's not for lack of trying, even pilot skills and equipment to improve their flight envelop, forget about it.

 

So there is a clear unbalance there and I don't think developers are making things better for newbies, because you see, stall characteristics are the first serious thing you learn when you learn flying, even before landing, and if you do a bit of aerobatics, you'll go post-stall, use the right command (rudder and elevator), use engine torque etc.

 

As it is, WoWP doesn't teach ANYTHING about flying to a newbie, it's mediocre simulation at best, sorry to say, if you want an aircraft game, at least make them fly like aircraft...

 

See what we miss...

 

 

The Jodel D90 I flew to do this maneuver wasn't fully acrobatic, only "sport" so NO aileron roll on the way down, but basically, you'll go vertical, wait for speed indicator to collapse (not enough airflow to give you any indication of speed), select carb-heating, and reduce gas to idle when the airframe was buffeting.

 

Then apply gas and full rudder right to support propeller torque effect and help the aircraft turn 180* on its yaw axis, turn carb-heating off, recover enough speed for the resource and never, ever use the ailerons post-stall or you'll get it into a spin.

 

Imagine pulling vertical to force your opponent into a stall (I've done it a few time), in this game, you wouldn't need to roll over in low energy state, instead, you'll control the whole sequence from A to Z, end up nose down vertical full throttle with plenty of altitude to translate into energy.

 

THIS, among the things this game doesn't allow to do,  it would have been much better to give the options of automatic recovery for newbies than deprave them to such a huge part of aircraft flight capabilities. I say that, I said nothing...


Edited by ThinderChief, 13 March 2020 - 05:54 AM.


houghtonbee #25 Posted 13 March 2020 - 06:37 AM

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I'm surprised you haven't noticed WOWP is an arcade game and not a flight simulation, Thinder.

Also Bf and Me are generally accepted as interchangeable where the 109 is concerned. The original design was submitted by the Bayerisch Flugzeugwerke company in 1935, which was renamed Messerschmitt AG in 38 after Willy purchased it (with subsequent designs given the Me name, Me410 for example). Bf109 was the designation used on all the data plates but Me109 also found its way into Luftwaffe documents and of course generally usage by such people as Galland.

ThinderChief #26 Posted 13 March 2020 - 06:44 AM

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View Posthoughtonbee, on 13 March 2020 - 06:37 AM, said:

I'm surprised you haven't noticed WOWP is an arcade game and not a flight simulation, Thinder.

 

It's not a reason to get them to move like goldfishes, which is what most A-Cs in the game looks like, including flapping rudders, flaps and ailerons, there is clearly a lot of work to do there...

 

Arcade is only a matter of player PoW not how the vehicle behaves and I'll reiterate, getting newbies into this game as it is doing them no favour when it comes to their understanding of what an aircraft is, kids as young as 14 can fly gliders solo, with a few lessons, so this is a bad excuse, plus there could be two different modes, realistic and... Not.

 

What I mean is, as it is, kids will not develop any real skills, when you think that they can learn to fly the real thing, rather well, so why leveling the whole thing by the bottom?

 

It makes ZERO sense at all.


Edited by ThinderChief, 13 March 2020 - 06:58 AM.


zen_monk_ #27 Posted 13 March 2020 - 08:14 AM

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View PostThinderChief, on 13 March 2020 - 07:44 AM, said:

What I mean is, as it is, kids will not develop any real skills, when you think that they can learn to fly the real thing, rather well, so why leveling the whole thing by the bottom?

 

I saw "free to play", i saw "take it to the skies and enjoy" etc, but looks like I've missed "...and we will develop flying skills in kids..."

 

Where have you seen this line?


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ThinderChief #28 Posted 13 March 2020 - 05:58 PM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 13 March 2020 - 08:14 AM, said:

 

I saw "free to play", i saw "take it to the skies and enjoy" etc, but looks like I've missed "...and we will develop flying skills in kids..."

 

Where have you seen this line?


What was the reason for changing the game into a goldfish emulation again? Making it easier for whom? Because if developers were thinking about attracting some X-Wing players, they might have succeeded, but they also might have turned off a few others.



Frateras #29 Posted Yesterday, 01:05 PM

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I got no stall issue anyway, just the Kis and Zeros are much easier to kill with the Bf109 Z which I flew last night to make the points for the Schwalbe. I mean the Twin is a completely BnZ but meanwhile I can dogfight with a Typhon. It's not a question of keeping speed but of boost management and meeting the target with four 30 mm guns. There are techniques to get that thing around ...







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