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Heinkel He 111 H-2, inactive machine guns


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nitemare_gary #1 Posted 20 May 2019 - 09:56 PM

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Hello,

this is my first post, so forgive me if I start wrong.

I have been playing the game since mid 2015 and, despite

having periods of six months in which my computer is broken and

i'm unable to play, i am very passionate about the game.

Recently I bought the Heinkel He 111 H-2. Over all

it's decent plane, and i was happy with my purchase until

I counted the number of machine guns in the upgrades section.

In total, it says that there are five guns,

 
 


nitemare_gary #2 Posted 20 May 2019 - 09:57 PM

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Front turret                    

7.92 mm MG-15 

 

Top turret

7.92 mm MG-15

 

Side turret

2x 7.92 mm MG-15

 

Bottom turret

7.92 mm MG-15



nitemare_gary #3 Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:02 PM

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However on the plane I counted eight,

 

2x Front turret

Top turret

2x Side turret

2x Bottom turret

Rear turret

 

Can anyone tell me why some aren't working (particularly the bottom one

that points straight down) Also, mabye, please, WG could activate them.



nitemare_gary #4 Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:06 PM

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However on the plane I counted eight,

 

2x Front turret

Top turret

2x Side turret

2x Bottom turret

Rear turret

 

Can anyone tell me why some aren't working (particularly the bottom one

that points straight down) Also, mabye, please, WG could activate them.



apartclassic #5 Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:48 PM

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Actually there are 7 guns, one of the bottom ones you count as a gun is something else (a pipe pointed straight down, right?). As to the different count, it is interesting indeed - if you look at Aircraft Details and into Gun Armament section, only 4 turrets are listed. I believe the number 5 means the amount of guns that can shoot simultaneously - even though there are two guns in the forward turret, there is only one gunner and he can operate only one of them at a time, right? That still doesn't explain the fixed gun in the tail not listed at all though...

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Sidus_Preclarum #6 Posted 21 May 2019 - 06:09 AM

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View Postapartclassic, on 20 May 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

only 4 turrets are listed. I believe the number 5 means the amount of guns that can shoot simultaneously - even though there are two guns in the forward turret, there is only one gunner and he can operate only one of them at a time, right? That still doesn't explain the fixed gun in the tail not listed at all though...

 

4 mounts can fire simultaneously, as the plane had a crew of 5 : pilot, navigator/bomber/front gunner, dorsal gunner/radio; ventral gunner , side gunner, which is consistent with  the 4 guns listed in the left pannel as well as this :

 

View Postnitemare_gary, on 20 May 2019 - 09:57 PM, said:

Front turret                    

7.92 mm MG-15 

 

Top turret

7.92 mm MG-15

 

Side turret

2x 7.92 mm MG-15

 

Bottom turret

7.92 mm MG-15

 

 

The tail machine gun was indeed sometimes a thing ;

 

Being a fixed gun (a MG17), I can't see it having much effect other than psychological. It would be rather akward to use in the context of the game, even though, if it was the default weapon of the plane, you could use it on an enemy tailing you when flying on a straight line, so there would be 2 mg hitting him for as long as he doesn't change his angle of attack.  I can see why WG wouldn't bother with it, even though they then shouldn't have modeled it.

 

Generally, what we have in game seems to be a hodgepodge of H1 to H6 characteristics.


Edited by Sidus_Preclarum, 21 May 2019 - 06:36 AM.


nitemare_gary #7 Posted 21 May 2019 - 02:18 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 20 May 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

one of the bottom ones you count as a gun is something else (a pipe pointed straight down, right?).

This is also what I thought at first, however, if you a take closer look through the glass, you can see that it stretches up to roughly where the top gunner sits.

Also it does look to be modelled on an MG, note that there is some glass in a circle just next to it that is rendered differently. Presumably this would be for the gunner to look down.

I would post some pics, but I cant seem to get my computer to do that yet. I'll jig the setting around to see what happens.  

 


Edited by nitemare_gary, 21 May 2019 - 02:19 PM.


nitemare_gary #8 Posted 21 May 2019 - 03:35 PM

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HE 111 H-2 FRONT.PNGHE 111 H-2 MID.PNGHE 111 H-2 BOTTOM.PNGHE 111 H-2 REAR.PNG

nitemare_gary #9 Posted 21 May 2019 - 03:47 PM

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HE 111 H-2 BOTTOM glass.PNGHE 111 H-2 BOTTOM glass pipe termination.PNG

nitemare_gary #10 Posted 21 May 2019 - 03:52 PM

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On a second look, mabye it is a pipe. I will look through some books to see if there was a gun there.(but the glass, and the tip, does seem telling, if it is glass)HE 111 H-2 BOTTOM  pipe tip.PNG

nitemare_gary #11 Posted 21 May 2019 - 06:52 PM

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my apology's to apartclassic. It is in fact a pipe/aerial.

This pic is from the revell HE 111 H-6.

HE 111 H-2 BOTTOM  pipe proof.PNG

However there is still the matter of the tail gun.

 

 



RoyalFlyingCorps #12 Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:23 AM

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Rather interesting; however, if the planes were modelled accurately I suspect there would be horrible issues with balance, so I assume the WoWP team fiddles the characteristics of their representations of aircraft so that they are not necessarily historically truthful, but playable.

Piq_Mastika #13 Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:30 AM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 22 May 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

Rather interesting; however, if the planes were modelled accurately I suspect there would be horrible issues with balance, so I assume the WoWP team fiddles the characteristics of their representations of aircraft so that they are not necessarily historically truthful, but playable.

 

Yes, you can see it very clear if you compare USSR - Germany or USSR - USA. It's obvious the USSR planes are older models at the same tier. I can't be sure about the historical performance, but the Germans used to perform much better in the early years of the war. That's why WG includes not only serial planes, but historical prototypes and drawings.

nightmare_gunner1 #14 Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:35 AM

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Just some food for thought.

This is the flammenwefer attached to a HE 111

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=eqUZfHcdWD4

 

Some German bombers were fitted with backward firing flamethrowers intended not so much to burn enemy fighter pilots to death, but to blind them with black oily smoke.  They did not produce much flame at altitude as it was too cold and the air too thin for the oil to burn well, but the unburnt oil did foul some windscreens of attacking enemy fighters.  Backwards firing flamethrowers were fitted to some Do 17s, Ju 88s and He 111s.

 

In one famous combat during the Battle of Britain, Stephan Schmidt, radio operator on a Do 17 F1+FS Werk Nr 2555 of 8.Staffel/KG 76 fired a flamethrower at Sgt Ray Holmes' No 504 Sqdn Hurricane, as he fired at it from 400 yards. Holmes' windcreen was covered in oil, temporarily obscuring his view so that he had to break off his attack.  Schmidt was later fatally wounded by a spitfire and the Do 17 crash landed in a a hops field near Castle Farm, Shoreham.

 

I would love to see this in game, but it will never happen.

Other pics are available, if you look hard enough.



Frateras #15 Posted 10 November 2019 - 06:39 PM

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Better keep the machine above 3000 m altitude and there is simply no use of the rear gunner. 

Das einzig Gefährliche am Fliegen ist die Erde.

 

Wilbur Wright (1867 - 1912), US-amerikanischer Flugpionier


nitemare_gary #16 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:59 PM

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View PostFrateras, on 10 November 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:

Better keep the machine above 3000 m altitude and there is simply no use of the rear gunner. 


True, this is how I fly tend to fly it now. However, you don't start at 3000m. Thus the additional MG would provide a small amount of extra cover while it was vulnerable.

Also, on a lesser note, it would be historically accurate. I know that is not what this game is about, but it would just be nice.:) 






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