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WG, wake up !


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GonerNL #1 Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:27 PM

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Matchmaking is spoiling this game !!

Despite blogs about the MM fairy-tale (or was it myth ? or truth ?) it just plain sux.

About 3/4 of battles end in air superiority and results like 800-43 because teams are totally unbalanced. And it's not just me, more and more players complain during battle when the game goes completely to one team after a couple of minutes ...



AnCh #2 Posted 23 June 2019 - 07:07 PM

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It is true. Most of the time I couldn't focus on the missions needed for the german fighter since my team was too good or way too bad and the matches finished in no time.

Another "interesting" thing is the continuous misses I have with the bots when I try to hit them. The hit marks are there but no damage and the frustration is arising with each time lost on one single damn bot while the enemies are getting each and every cap available...



Ykazumi #3 Posted 23 June 2019 - 07:29 PM

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hi, truly,many examples of improper MM are going on now,it will be a risky affair to join the battles. I´m afraid the game has become a turkey shooting at the battle of the Philippeans off the Mariana Isl. june,1944.

It will be difficult to call this an online-game, for,it is inbalances that decide it´s outcome.

If both team has a close call, it´s will be understandable for many players.

.......................

Per attached such can happen quite often : 4 regular or skilled human players in red team, it´s only you who can work hard, the rest of 3 are sheer newbies with 1-5 hours only in your team.

Can see who are newbies 2 min. after entering the battle. Coz they fail to work hard. I tried to size up the situation with regard to these 3 newbies in my team,killed enemy bot GAAs 2 or 3 times incl.some bot fighters, cut off idea of bombing in attacker(t3)  The result was then a close call, and my team lost indubitably.

 

Flying after midnight will be a tempory solution where there are  2 humans or  1 vs 1; you and a total newbie in the same team. Even if this idling newbie would produce1k or below,my team may often win through a hard work,real hard work.uha.

cheers,

 

 

 

 


Edited by Ykazumi, 23 June 2019 - 08:40 PM.


GonerNL #4 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:14 PM

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I don't think WG even knows how it works. On paper it looks fine, but in reality ... it's a roll of the dice.

Yesterday I had a game where the enemy team had 4 fighters ; 3 Spits XIV (really !?) and a I-220. We had 1 fighter, my Vampire. So MM can not even balance by plane-type !!



siremorti #5 Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:36 PM

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May be will be bored but... why not a "mirror" MM? at least, will be equal from 1st minute, then, if human are better or not, is other question

AnCh #6 Posted 24 June 2019 - 07:50 AM

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Yes, I believe this would be a good starting point, Siremorti.

Discontinued #7 Posted 24 June 2019 - 10:10 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 23 June 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

Matchmaking is spoiling this game !!

Despite blogs about the MM fairy-tale (or was it myth ? or truth ?) it just plain sux.

About 3/4 of battles end in air superiority and results like 800-43 because teams are totally unbalanced. And it's not just me, more and more players complain during battle when the game goes completely to one team after a couple of minutes ...

 

I agree completely, yesterday night, I had 3 games out of 5 where is saw the same teams repeatedly they where not in a platoon/flight and in each of these games i had the same 4 players all in specialized planes two where in boomerangs and the other was in a bomber and A6M zero.

 

Even the enemy team acknowledged, that the MM totally was skewed.

 

maybe this personal rating garbe also threw things out of kilter

 

My team Zilch, nada, nicht, not one single specialist plane. instead novices with a handful of hours flight time,face mr no life with 9000 hours and 200+ planes along with 70% victories, My stupid bot bombers and GAA that just went to cap uselss garrison after useless garrison without going for mining plants or missile bases.

 

Needless to say I should have just quit, as the inevitable outcome always insured, not in any of these games where there a single specialized plane on my team.

 

I will post the screen shots when i get back from work....mid tiers are utterly broken...

 

 

View PostYkazumi, on 23 June 2019 - 07:29 PM, said:

hi, truly,many examples of improper MM are going on now,it will be a risky affair to join the battles. I´m afraid the game has become a turkey shooting at the battle of the Philippeans off the Mariana Isl. june,1944.

It will be difficult to call this an online-game, for,it is inbalances that decide it´s outcome.

If both team has a close call, it´s will be understandable for many players.

.......................

Per attached such can happen quite often : 4 regular or skilled human players in red team, it´s only you who can work hard, the rest of 3 are sheer newbies with 1-5 hours only in your team.

Can see who are newbies 2 min. after entering the battle. Coz they fail to work hard. I tried to size up the situation with regard to these 3 newbies in my team,killed enemy bot GAAs 2 or 3 times incl.some bot fighters, cut off idea of bombing in attacker(t3)  The result was then a close call, and my team lost indubitably.

 

Flying after midnight will be a tempory solution where there are  2 humans or  1 vs 1; you and a total newbie in the same team. Even if this idling newbie would produce1k or below,my team may often win through a hard work,real hard work.uha.

cheers,

 

 

 

 

I also agree, but not all of us can play late due to work etc.

 

However, Sunday evenings are a cesspool i always see a marked rise in defeats and string of losses..but then thats the same ofor many mmo's the casuals and veteran otaku players all online make for some extremely unbalanced games.

 

 

TIME FOR PVE!


Edited by BlankSlate, 24 June 2019 - 10:31 AM.

 

 

 "May cause the explode problem"


GonerNL #8 Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:47 PM

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View PostBlankSlate, on 24 June 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

Even the enemy team acknowledged, that the MM totally was skewed.

 

Nobody is happy with this mess, not even the winning side.

Firstly it leaves a feeling that it is not your (team) effort that won the game, but the MM lottery. And secondly, games are so short because of imbalance that you earn less credits, xp etc.

And as everyone experiences this, enemy is often sympathetic when you complain. Not that it helps ...

 

 

 



zen_monk_ #9 Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:55 PM

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View PostBlankSlate, on 24 June 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

 

TIME FOR PVE!

 

:honoring:

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Discontinued #10 Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:39 PM

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Yes being on the winning team when you score 1-3k because of a steamroll isn't much fun either.

 

 

 "May cause the explode problem"


invader_from_mars #11 Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:29 AM

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Guys, it is not about unbalanced bots, its about how many clueless braindead ppl per side. I see ppl with 37% winrate in tier 9, it means they have absolutely no idea what and how to do. Well you get 2 of these in your team, and game over, result 800-20. Meanwhile im sure the mm is watching the skills and winrates, because i was NEVER in the same team with Mitragyn (hes pro if you ask me, respect) for example, always had to fight against him. So WG knows what hes doing, try to keep ppl around 50% winrate.

zen_monk_ #12 Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:35 AM

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View Postinvader_from_mars, on 25 June 2019 - 06:29 AM, said:

. So WG knows what hes doing, try to keep ppl around 50% winrate.

 

Yep, the infamous Patent. It's all written there loud and clear. But whenever in all these years with WG i brought that up I've been ridiculed with tinfoil haw haw. Regardless of that's what they say in their patent, not me who's only pointing it out.


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GonerNL #13 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:13 AM

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View Postinvader_from_mars, on 25 June 2019 - 08:29 AM, said:

Guys, it is not about unbalanced bots, 

 

I never said it was.

It's about the totally random team-building.

MM should not put 4 fighters in 1 team and 2 in the other. Especially manned by ace pilots in 1 team and noobs in the other.  WR is a reasonable indication of how a pilot performs, so please MM take that into account !!

 



blindfoId #14 Posted 26 June 2019 - 11:57 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 24 June 2019 - 12:14 AM, said:

Yesterday I had a game where the enemy team had 4 fighters ; 3 Spits XIV (really !?) and a I-220. We had 1 fighter, my Vampire. So MM can not even balance by plane-type !!

 

It works exactly as described in the article:

 

Currently the matchmaker picks players from the queue based on two categories of classes – PvP and PvE. The former includes all three fighter classes, the latter includes attack aircraft and bombers. When the matchmaker starts composing teams, it only assesses the number of players in each team that are piloting aircraft from these categories, not specific classes. This means that if one team has 7 dogfight-oriented aircraft on its side, the matchmaker will balance them with 7 machines from the same category, but it will not aim to mirror these teams in terms of classes. This allows us to reduce queue time significantly.

 

View Postinvader_from_mars, on 25 June 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

Guys, it is not about unbalanced bots, its about how many clueless braindead ppl per side. I see ppl with 37% winrate in tier 9, it means they have absolutely no idea what and how to do. Well you get 2 of these in your team, and game over, result 800-20. Meanwhile im sure the mm is watching the skills and winrates, because i was NEVER in the same team with Mitragyn (hes pro if you ask me, respect) for example, always had to fight against him. So WG knows what hes doing, try to keep ppl around 50% winrate.

 

View Postzen_monk_, on 25 June 2019 - 09:35 AM, said:

 

Yep, the infamous Patent. It's all written there loud and clear. But whenever in all these years with WG i brought that up I've been ridiculed with tinfoil haw haw. Regardless of that's what they say in their patent, not me who's only pointing it out.

 

MM in WoWp doesn't take into account any player's information. Neither his W/R nor his previous experience (number of times being top or bottom tier in battles, number of wins or loses in a row, etc.). It simply can't, it's not able of doing so. I cannot say how exactly works MM in tanks as I'm not aware of it, but our MM simply works with flights, tiers and plane classes (PvE or PvP). That's it. 

zen_monk_ #15 Posted 26 June 2019 - 12:52 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 26 June 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

MM in WoWp doesn't take into account any player's information. Neither his W/R nor his previous experience (number of times being top or bottom tier in battles, number of wins or loses in a row, etc.). It simply can't, it's not able of doing so. I cannot say how exactly works MM in tanks as I'm not aware of it, but our MM simply works with flights, tiers and plane classes (PvE or PvP). That's it. 

 

OK, I take your word for it, honestly. (it is different in tanks and ships, but that's another story)

 

Then we all here have a problem - that is, something we all feel. When everything is the way you describe, is it possible that something in RGN specific for this game can trigger a sort of snowball effect, something that induces roflstomps? It's not "several bad players on my side who GT with Spits", it happens frequently in 1:1 human games, when both players do their thing correctly. The bots on one side suddenly all go ace mode, very smart and tactically aware. And you're helpless on your end, even with 20k points and caps and chevrons and all.

 

Maybe that's something worth investigating.


Edited by zen_monk_, 26 June 2019 - 01:20 PM.

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raketak_ #16 Posted 26 June 2019 - 01:28 PM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 26 June 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

Hi, 

I see this sometime in WOT too. Even in FL mode with 30x30 players.

I can be wrong and there can be part of WOWP program responsible for this (and I restart wowp and wot after I lost battle). But I think this is simple domino effect. You and 3 bots go for rocket base and I with 3 bots from my team go there too. You kill me and now this is 4 to 3. You kill bot and after 20s next. Rocket base is yours and my team all time came 1 or 2 planes from respawn point - and meet 4 your fighters. And of cource, Im angry from start and do mistakes next 2 games :)

 

This is start of one side game. I can be wrong,  but this can be explanation. 



klbergmen #17 Posted 26 June 2019 - 01:41 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 26 June 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

It works exactly as described in the article:

 

Currently the matchmaker picks players from the queue based on two categories of classes – PvP and PvE. The former includes all three fighter classes, the latter includes attack aircraft and bombers. When the matchmaker starts composing teams, it only assesses the number of players in each team that are piloting aircraft from these categories, not specific classes. This means that if one team has 7 dogfight-oriented aircraft on its side, the matchmaker will balance them with 7 machines from the same category, but it will not aim to mirror these teams in terms of classes. This allows us to reduce queue time significantly.

 

And thats exactly the problem - this is way too simple.

All planes have to be matched according to their class and tier - LF against LF, bomber against bomber and so on.

Players have to be matched according to their tier. Not two high tier players against two low tier players.

I cannot believe that this is that complicated - it was working before this stupidly simple MM was introduced.

These are the two changes I want to see in MM - and if possible it should try to match human plane classes - human bomber against human bomber.

In my opinion the MM doesn't have to care about specialized planes.


 

I'm not  a programmer but I can script this for you.



elias_the_great #18 Posted 26 June 2019 - 06:52 PM

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Hello everyone,

 

Even though i try to be as positive as i can,help everyone understand things that havent thought of and suggest solutions in many problems....here...i ...just...cant be possitive. The last week or so the matchmaker is brutal including:

 

  • Unbalanced MM in terms of planes (like yesterday i was in my XF-90 and i was put in the same matchmaker three times!!!Three!!!! (this matchmaker will include 3  planes on each team :Two combat planes and one attacker. I was the only t10 player in my team and my mates were a Yak-19 and a Il-40,while the enemy team had two(specialists) t10 German Fighters and Ju 287....like how is that fair?!
  • I am always with the noobs.......like i dont get that at all(no offence guys but stick to lower tiers with 49% winrate)while the enemy team has decent people (at least two more,so its like 10v12 from the get go)....
  • Flight abusing mechanic: I have noticed the last two weeks or so that more and more flights que up with different tier planes (like a T7 and a T8) in order to get a favorable matchmaking! Which it would be fine if both sides have one flight like that but no! In my team, my fair teamates have same tier planes (both t7)...so jokes on us!!!!!
  • To add to the previous one, the MM doesnt look at flight tiers at all...so in a two tier game,you have two tier-flgihts...one team is inferior because of that,just like that

All the above cost me 0.10% winrate the last 4 days!!! and everyone above 65% knows how slow it grows and how easily its ruined...and no i dont live for W/L ratio but when you do everything in your power to win and you just cant its frustrating...if it wasnt for the extra gold for in this weeks ranking(for the brit scope) i wouldnt play this game....its awful since red comet ended!!!


Edited by elias_the_great, 26 June 2019 - 06:59 PM.


houghtonbee #19 Posted 27 June 2019 - 05:37 AM

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A match I played in last night highlights the hopelessness of some bot teams and the lack of balance between teams.

Took my HS123 gaa tier 2 into a t1-2 game against one player on the other side, in a I15 fighter. He has the advantage one on one due to his plane but i made my choice so no arguments there. Game starts and half my bots join in me in capping the nearest cap of the 4 zones half go to the one on the other side of the map, so far so good except the half I'm not with fly around the zone doing nothing to cap it. Meanwhile matey on the other team has capped the zone coincidentally on the same side of the map as me while his bots have capped the other zone quickly and efficiently. We meet up between zones and he shoots me down, again no arguments he has the advantage due to my choice of aircraft (and chasing a token mission). His bots have now made it to the uncapped zone where mine have managed to kill one air defense bot in 3 minutes or so, and again within a minute it's turned red. In the entire game we only capped a zone if i was in it helping.

I'm not calling deliberate fix but I see game after game where one team's bots simply play far more efficiently than the opposition's bots (regardless of what team I'm on). The weird mm doesnt help, we're told what a fantastic advantage specialist aircraft are then the mm often puts 3 specialists on one side and none on the other, balanced?!

I dont know what the solution is but at the moment many wins feel hollow, trying to do Efimov on the Horton op order is nearly impossible because of how quick games finish as well!

GonerNL #20 Posted 27 June 2019 - 08:50 AM

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View PostblindfoId, on 26 June 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

It works exactly as described in the article:

 

And that is exactly what I'm complaining about !! 

 

Block Quote

This means that if one team has 7 dogfight-oriented aircraft on its side, the matchmaker will balance them with 7 machines from the same category, but it will not aim to mirror these teams in terms of classes. This allows us to reduce queue time significantly.

 

Read my post ; enemy team had 4 dogfight-oriented fighters (Spits, I-220, all human), my team had 2 (Vampire, Ta-152, not really a dogfighter !). That was 'balanced' by giving us some multi-roles (also not dog-fighters) and heavies.

You really want to claim that MM reduced queue time by giving one team 4 fighters and the other team 2 ? :amazed:

 

 


Edited by GonerNL, 27 June 2019 - 08:52 AM.





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