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airfight10 #1 Posted 24 June 2019 - 08:49 PM

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game startet ı fly with B-32  to the rocket base ,no one from my team folowed me ,ım in highes altdute over the base starting to drop my boms. passed the base  to loading again 40 sec is goen after start neahrly,, ı call help f3  but didnt seen any team player all in other base ,some red destroyed me ,ı startet quick again flying  to neahres target base, all base is under control of reds ,my team spilitet ,game duration 1 min and defeated , ı think  how can this happen ? so quickly
defeat ? ım so  angry about this kind of mm its so meaningless,how can we have fun or joined so a match ? ,in my opinion is so a match abnormal ,to far from a normal airbattel in a right balance,the wowp devs must do it sometings again that abnormal match status

Edited by airfight10, 24 June 2019 - 08:51 PM.


zen_monk_ #2 Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:47 PM

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View Postairfight10, on 24 June 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

game startet ı fly with B-32  to the rocket base ,no one from my team folowed me ,ım in highes altdute over the base starting to drop my boms. passed the base  to loading again 40 sec is goen after start neahrly,, ı call help f3  but didnt seen any team player all in other base ,some red destroyed me ,ı startet quick again flying  to neahres target base, all base is under control of reds ,my team spilitet ,game duration 1 min and defeated , ı think  how can this happen ? so quickly
defeat ? ım so  angry about this kind of mm its so meaningless,how can we have fun or joined so a match ? ,in my opinion is so a match abnormal ,to far from a normal airbattel in a right balance,the wowp devs must do it sometings again that abnormal match status

 

Again, agree 100%.

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Emtod #3 Posted 25 June 2019 - 03:29 AM

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I am impressed - a reasonably normal post, without "feared chikken" "sneaky snakes" and "bread eating"?

 

And you are right - this is a problem.

The key point is, that the "skill" of the bots in the teams is not equally distributed.

Both sides have the same amount of "elite" bots and "rookie" bots but it often happen, that the elite bots of your team fly other planes than the opposing team.

Depending on the map this can decide the battle.

The main problem is - battles should be decided by human players and not by WG with their MM and bot-distribution.

I can not understand why WG refuses to mirror the bots-skill - this can not be such difficult.



Piq_Mastika #4 Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:14 AM

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View PostEmtod, on 25 June 2019 - 05:29 AM, said:

I am impressed - a reasonably normal post, without "feared chikken" "sneaky snakes" and "bread eating"?

 

And you are right - this is a problem.

The key point is, that the "skill" of the bots in the teams is not equally distributed.

Both sides have the same amount of "elite" bots and "rookie" bots but it often happen, that the elite bots of your team fly other planes than the opposing team.

Depending on the map this can decide the battle.

The main problem is - battles should be decided by human players and not by WG with their MM and bot-distribution.

I can not understand why WG refuses to mirror the bots-skill - this can not be such difficult.

 

Wrong. The bot's skills are distributed tier 1-3-rookie, tier 4-5-warrior, tier 6-10-elite. The difference in skills is not by team, but in tiers. The bots in the both teams have equal skills.

The bot performance difference may come from something small, like one critical hit in the first seconds. After this shot, a kill may be made and a sector may be capped. After this the snowball effect goes on. Later you find yourself alone vs 5 bots and they shoot you from all directions. As I said in another "abnormal" post: If you are alone vs many bots, they all focus you and most likely they kill you; If a bot is alone vs many of your allies, he locks at one target, he flies straight and looks like idle - an easy target.

The games are more player-dependent than you think. Airfight10 is a good example in a tactical lose. F3 calls for a support, if you are already in the sector most of the times a GAA will try to help - a slow one and it will be destroyed on the way.

Commands like F2 could help to defend critical sectors and extend the game. F7 is calling a fighter to help you. Another ineffective strategy is the very high altitude. The accuracy disappears in near-red altitudes, so these powerful bombs fall at random and you can fly a very little part of the sector. At 2200 m. you can bomb all the sector in one pass and capture it easy.


 

There is nothing abnormal here, it's all regularly. Don't be angry at MM, just see your mistakes. If you want good results go deep.



GonerNL #5 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:20 AM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 25 June 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

The bots in the both teams have equal skills.

 

That's what WG claims, but it's bullsh*t ... 

How else can in a 1-vs-1 (or even 1-v s-0) battle, where the humans are not the deciding factor (it happens) one team of bots completely roflstomp the other team ??

Bot skills are random and so are human skills. You see it happen battle after battle after battle ... I quit more and more games (admittedly, the hot weather helps).

 

Block Quote

F3 calls for a support, if you are already in the sector most of the times a GAA will try to help 

 

That's bad game design, not his fault.

 


Edited by GonerNL, 25 June 2019 - 07:21 AM.


Horcan #6 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:40 AM

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Im preety sure bots actually turn into godlike mode even at tier 4-6 when they "decide" to, especially against some human "on a killing spree" probably for some balancing purposes, or because some diabolical maleficent programmer think no human should have too much fun in this game, and why the hell didnt everyone just quit playing already, so they can find a new job.

Piq_Mastika #7 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:45 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 25 June 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:

 

That's what WG claims, but it's bullsh*t ...

How else can in a 1-vs-1 (or even 1-v s-0) battle, where the humans are not the deciding factor (it happens) one team of bots completely roflstomp the other team ??

Bot skills are random and so are human skills. You see it happen battle after battle after battle ... I quit more and more games (admittedly, the hot weather helps).

 

 

As I said, snowball. Engage the "super-bot" in pair or call for help in mid-fight. When someone else engages the bot, he may switch the target. Why I am the only one who don't have problems with "bot-Terminators"? They are predictable, that's why.

View PostGonerNL, on 25 June 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:

 

That's bad game design, not his fault.

 

 

It's his fault. If he knows how the F-keys are working, he may have slight advantage.

Discontinued #8 Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:37 AM

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Well pressing F2,F3 or F7 at the very beginning of a battle in a bomber can actually drag 3 bots over to help you cap when piloting a bomber.

 

If you are already in a cap circle its too late.

 

what you need to ask yourself is did those bots  have plans to go to other bases? Have you weakened your team by dragging the said bots Vasily, Erskine and Chandler who where happily doing their Tron thing.

 

I think they should remove the F key commands for bots and have them only for human team mates, I have asked bots for help and seen them leave a cap on the opposite side of the map therefore throwing the game. I think this feature needs to be eliminated

 

But even better and probably fairly easy to implement we need PVE mode only as a game option/mode.


 

 

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zen_monk_ #9 Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:54 AM

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View PostBlankSlate, on 25 June 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

Well pressing F2,F3 or F7 at the very beginning of a battle in a bomber can actually drag 3 bots over to help you cap when piloting a bomber.

 

If you are already in a cap circle its too late.

 

what you need to ask yourself is did those bots  have plans to go to other bases? Have you weakened your team by dragging the said bots Vasily, Erskine and Chandler who where happily doing their Tron thing.

 

I think they should remove the F key commands for bots and have them only for human team mates, I have asked bots for help and seen them leave a cap on the opposite side of the map therefore throwing the game. I think this feature needs to be eliminated

 

But even better and probably fairly easy to implement we need PVE mode only as a game option/mode.

 

Well pointed out, the problem of dragging bots from their thangs. Several times when I've F7 in a dogfight some did came and helped, but I have a feeling i've dragged them out of them doing something maybe more important, like killing that HF over the base etc.

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Horcan #10 Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:59 AM

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You can also assign bots to do what you want. Like press f2 to a mine from very far away, a bomber or GAA will confirm. Then you go where you want.

Emtod #11 Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:27 PM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 25 June 2019 - 06:14 AM, said:

 

Wrong. The bot's skills are distributed tier 1-3-rookie, tier 4-5-warrior, tier 6-10-elite. The difference in skills is not by team, but in tiers. The bots in the both teams have equal skills.

...

 

When did they change this? And are you sure? Is there a patchnote?

 

I had a discussion one year ago with eekeeboo about bots in WoWp - and he told me that there are bots of different skill-level in one battle (but same ammount in both teams)!

This means: In both Teams are the same amount of bots with different skill level but eekeeboo also confirmend, that with planes mirrored it may happen that in the same plane there are different bots f.e. im my team the GA has a "rookie" bot while the opposing team has a "elite" bot in their GA - the elite bot of my team fly a fighter, while the opposing fighter has a rooki bot --> Same amount of bots, same skill level, but different planes!

This also means: The bots of both Teams have equal skills (f.e. 2 elite per team, 3 warrior per team, rest rookie)

So yes - there is a difference in the tiers - the higher the tier the stronger the bots, but on a given tier not all bots in a team have the equal skill.

 



Piq_Mastika #12 Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:42 PM

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View PostEmtod, on 25 June 2019 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

When did they change this? And are you sure? Is there a patchnote?

 

I had a discussion one year ago with eekeeboo about bots in WoWp - and he told me that there are bots of different skill-level in one battle (but same ammount in both teams)!

This means: In both Teams are the same amount of bots with different skill level but eekeeboo also confirmend, that with planes mirrored it may happen that in the same plane there are different bots f.e. im my team the GA has a "rookie" bot while the opposing team has a "elite" bot in their GA - the elite bot of my team fly a fighter, while the opposing fighter has a rooki bot --> Same amount of bots, same skill level, but different planes!

This also means: The bots of both Teams have equal skills (f.e. 2 elite per team, 3 warrior per team, rest rookie)

So yes - there is a difference in the tiers - the higher the tier the stronger the bots, but on a given tier not all bots in a team have the equal skill.

 

 

Patch 2.0.7 from 02/10/2018. These differences you explain are from before this patch. Now you can find different bots only in games tier III - tier IV and tier V - tier VI. (because they are from different bot groups). All other game matches are with equal bot skill. The rest is RNG.

Edited by Piq_Mastika, 25 June 2019 - 12:46 PM.


Emtod #13 Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:39 PM

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View PostPiq_Mastika, on 25 June 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

 

Patch 2.0.7 from 02/10/2018. These differences you explain are from before this patch. Now you can find different bots only in games tier III - tier IV and tier V - tier VI. (because they are from different bot groups). All other game matches are with equal bot skill. The rest is RNG.

 

Thx very much.

The Information i had was from eekeeboo and about a year old.

But to be honest i didnt noticed any difference in bot behavior.

And also very suspicious when my bots loose in 2-3 different (neutral) zones simultaneously against the same amount of opponents.

1 zone may happen (bad rng), 2 zones may happen very rarely (bad rng + misfortune) but 3 f_cking zones (while i was fighting in the fourth) within 5-10 seconds? Very hard to belive that this should be possible.


Edited by Emtod, 25 June 2019 - 02:41 PM.


invader_from_mars #14 Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:19 PM

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the roflstomp exist because of ppl like him:

 

 

Tier 7 man, tier 7 not tier 1! And there are ppl out there with more ground damage in a GODDAMN SPITFIRE.



airfight10 #15 Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:20 PM

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View PostEmtod, on 25 June 2019 - 03:29 AM, said:

I am impressed - a reasonably normal post, without "feared chikken" "sneaky snakes" and "bread eating"?

 

And you are right - this is a problem.

The key point is, that the "skill" of the bots in the teams is not equally distributed.

Both sides have the same amount of "elite" bots and "rookie" bots but it often happen, that the elite bots of your team fly other planes than the opposing team.

Depending on the map this can decide the battle.

The main problem is - battles should be decided by human players and not by WG with their MM and bot-distribution.

I can not understand why WG refuses to mirror the bots-skill - this can not be such difficult.

 

what a wonder   you are agree with me (joke) realy is not nice so a short game and so strange match ,how can we have fun or join the game if wg just watching the actuall statuss ,doing nothing for a balance ? can you explain me for what all this updates please ? for game quality ? never just for wg self allways they do nothing for wowp ,the sweet baby is wot ,thats it .in my opinion actually is wowp game  realy not a favorite game for online game players,the potential of wowp is big but the game need a radical change and balance , we work day and night for you as devs is a tale just ,they work just for new premium airplanes and some tasks for players after 2 step forward player must pay for jamping the difficult task :coin:but the game stand same nothing changed ,this is the risk for wowp game with the time it can boring everyone ,then bb ,game is dead
 

View PostPiq_Mastika, on 25 June 2019 - 06:14 AM, said:

 

Wrong. The bot's skills are distributed tier 1-3-rookie, tier 4-5-warrior, tier 6-10-elite. The difference in skills is not by team, but in tiers. The bots in the both teams have equal skills.

The bot performance difference may come from something small, like one critical hit in the first seconds. After this shot, a kill may be made and a sector may be capped. After this the snowball effect goes on. Later you find yourself alone vs 5 bots and they shoot you from all directions. As I said in another "abnormal" post: If you are alone vs many bots, they all focus you and most likely they kill you; If a bot is alone vs many of your allies, he locks at one target, he flies straight and looks like idle - an easy target.

The games are more player-dependent than you think. Airfight10 is a good example in a tactical lose. F3 calls for a support, if you are already in the sector most of the times a GAA will try to help - a slow one and it will be destroyed on the way.

Commands like F2 could help to defend critical sectors and extend the game. F7 is calling a fighter to help you. Another ineffective strategy is the very high altitude. The accuracy disappears in near-red altitudes, so these powerful bombs fall at random and you can fly a very little part of the sector. At 2200 m. you can bomb all the sector in one pass and capture it easy.


 

There is nothing abnormal here, it's all regularly. Don't be angry at MM, just see your mistakes. If you want good results go deep.

please ı know all the F button preference  ı call the bot help if they neahr to me  ,never if bots are in far distance maybe to an  other direcktion,how ever thanks for you  nice info and comment, in one point ım not agree with you mm is abnormal   in a normal game after 60 sec defeat or victory  u cant accept as  regulary mm ,come on mastika ,ım over 50 jears old and ı play this game as ex 1.9 ver. player,ı know shure  mm is a mixed caotic programmed algoritma just ,we think all is regulary ,but is not ,ı can understande wery well how its work the systhem,becouse ım a pc expert  ı have my xp believe me,ı wish just  for ours players a balanced fair match where we have fun and joined that game,no mather if defeat or victory ,a game match  can ending in 5-10 min acceptable ,the fine details between bots and  his skills dont interest me  ım a simpel player like all,and ı wish to play with a good feeling and without getting crazy angry often    ,wg can balanced the skills of the bots ,if not ,then is it abnormal and unfair ,thats it black is black,white is white ,ım a realist  and ı think wery simpel as a pragmaticker ( sorry for my bad english:sceptic: 

 

View PostGonerNL, on 25 June 2019 - 07:20 AM, said:

 

That's what WG claims, but it's bullsh*t ... 

How else can in a 1-vs-1 (or even 1-v s-0) battle, where the humans are not the deciding factor (it happens) one team of bots completely roflstomp the other team ??

Bot skills are random and so are human skills. You see it happen battle after battle after battle ... I quit more and more games (admittedly, the hot weather helps).

 

 

That's bad game design, not his fault.

 

thats it what ı trai to mean, ı have enough xp with all airplanes ,this is not the problem,shure some of the players can think so  about me ,he is a newbie or no game xp  how ever

 

View PostBlankSlate, on 25 June 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

Well pressing F2,F3 or F7 at the very beginning of a battle in a bomber can actually drag 3 bots over to help you cap when piloting a bomber.

 

If you are already in a cap circle its too late.

 

what you need to ask yourself is did those bots  have plans to go to other bases? Have you weakened your team by dragging the said bots Vasily, Erskine and Chandler who where happily doing their Tron thing.

 

I think they should remove the F key commands for bots and have them only for human team mates, I have asked bots for help and seen them leave a cap on the opposite side of the map therefore throwing the game. I think this feature needs to be eliminated

 

But even better and probably fairly easy to implement we need PVE mode only as a game option/mode.

 

 ı choiced fares big base for bombing with B-32 you know why ? becouse  ı need time to  reach hiigh altidute and if ı fly with where all they go in team,before ı drop my boms ,they drop the boms and   for 1 ground target ı cant drob 20 bomb logic ? one point is wery importent also, calling 1-3 bot to me its to risky if my bots to far from me   to often calling bots it can be also a reason for defeat , need carefully using f buttons in exact right  moments and situations
 

Edited by G_Bg_82, 02 July 2019 - 02:16 PM.


unseen_strike #16 Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:20 AM

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View Postairfight10, on 25 June 2019 - 10:16 PM, said:

 

 ı choiced fares big base for bombing with B-32 you know why ? becouse  ı need time to  reach hiigh altidute and if ı fly with where all they go in team,before ı drop my boms ,they drop the boms and   for 1 ground target ı cant drob 20 bomb logic ? one point is wery importent also, calling 1-3 bot to me its to risky if my bots to far from me   to often calling bots it can be also a reason for defeat , need carefully using f buttons in exact right  moments and situations

 

That's wrong. With B32 you have to fly at about 2k meters, near the target go down at 1,5,to take more speed then so you can destroy more targets. B32 defend himself very well, you can cap destroying defensive planes easy. A B32 who fly at 3k meters is a useless B32. The speed is the key for all B line bombers. More speed more demage

AnCh #17 Posted 26 June 2019 - 08:07 AM

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View Postinvader_from_mars, on 25 June 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

the roflstomp exist because of ppl like him:

 

 

 

Tier 7 man, tier 7 not tier 1! And there are ppl out there with more ground damage in a GODDAMN SPITFIRE.

 

Indeed. And I believe I was in the same match, in the opposite team, if I remember correctly.

 

 

View PostHorcan, on 25 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

You can also assign bots to do what you want. Like press f2 to a mine from very far away, a bomber or GAA will confirm. Then you go where you want.

 

The most funny and frustrating command is the one when you are asking for a bot to attack a plane and the one that responds is the exact one that is chased by that enemy. :facepalm:



GonerNL #18 Posted 26 June 2019 - 08:56 AM

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View Postinvader_from_mars, on 25 June 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

the roflstomp exist because of ppl like him:

 

Nah, you might lose the battle because of him, but a roflstomp needs more than 1 bad player. MM is very good at that.



Piq_Mastika #19 Posted 26 June 2019 - 07:11 PM

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View Postairfight10, on 25 June 2019 - 11:40 PM, said:

please ı know all the F button preference  ı call the bot help if they neahr to me  ,never if bots are in far distance maybe to an  other direcktion,how ever thanks for you  nice info and comment, in one point ım not agree with you mm is abnormal   in a normal game after 60 sec defeat or victory  u cant accept as  regulary mm ,come on mastika ,ım over 50 jears old and ı play this game as ex 1.9 ver. player,ı know shure  mm is a mixed caotic programmed algoritma just ,we think all is regulary ,but is not ,ı can understande wery well how its work the systhem,becouse ım a pc expert  ı have my xp believe me,ı wish just  for ours players a balanced fair match where we have fun and joined that game,no mather if defeat or victory ,a game match  can ending in 5-10 min acceptable ,the fine details between bots and  his skills dont interest me  ım a simpel player like all,and ı wish to play with a good feeling and without getting crazy angry often    ,wg can balanced the skills of the bots ,if not ,then is it abnormal and unfair ,thats it black is black,white is white ,ım a realist  and ı think wery simpel as a pragmaticker ( sorry for my bad english:sceptic: 

 

Of course the MM is not balancing the players fair. It is because the MM is fast, they put whatever is available, not to be balanced.

airfight10 #20 Posted 27 June 2019 - 12:10 AM

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View Postunseen_strike, on 26 June 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

 

That's wrong. With B32 you have to fly at about 2k meters, near the target go down at 1,5,to take more speed then so you can destroy more targets. B32 defend himself very well, you can cap destroying defensive planes easy. A B32 who fly at 3k meters is a useless B32. The speed is the key for all B line bombers. More speed more demage

 

thnks for info, ı will trai you tactic to





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