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Pilot Skill - Marksman - Discuss.


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Ziptop #1 Posted 17 August 2019 - 01:52 AM

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So, Marksman I and Marksman II describe as reducing dispersion and reducing dispersion when firing at maneuvering targets respectively. 

 

Is this actually what it is doing or is that perhaps simply a decorative way of describing "increases hit chance calculation" when firing at a target?

 

Is this actually an advantage or even perhaps a disadvantage for joystick players?

 

Discuss.

 

 

 

 



RoyalFlyingCorps #2 Posted 17 August 2019 - 06:24 AM

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Since nobody apart from the WoWP development team knows how this skill is implemented in code, we can't answer your question.  In fact, the description and your second definition aren't mutually incompatible anyway.

 

From experience I can tell you MMI and MMII are an advantage for both M&K and joystick players, particularly with slower firing heavy cannons (30mms, &c.).  However, you may find that a gun sight means you don't have to get these skills first.  I used to try to get MMI-EGI-MMII-EGII on aircraft first before the 2.0.5 specialisation patch, but now I tend to research other skills rather than MMII, especially if the aircraft is a manoeuvrable one.



CheefCoach #3 Posted 17 August 2019 - 06:24 AM

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"increases hit chance calculation"->  believed or not, there is ballistic calculation every time you fire a projectile. There is dispersion of the gun (essentially a random angle at which projectile is shot in correlation to gun barrel), and there is also auto-correct angle that helps you when you are not 100 % on the target. Marksman 1 should reduce former, and Marksman 2 should reduce later. 

 

Guns that spray a lot of projectile benefit the most of it. 


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KlausHetti #4 Posted 17 August 2019 - 11:53 AM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 17 August 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

....  However, you may find that a gun sight means you don't have to get these skills first.  I used to try to get MMI-EGI-MMII-EGII on aircraft first before the 2.0.5 specialisation patch,
but now I tend to research other skills rather than MMII, especially if the aircraft is a manoeuvrable one.

I think we all agree that the chance for the shooting accuracy looks like a cone with 100% near the gun shrinking with increasing distance to the target.
There are some more factors like the

  • amount of guns
  • the place where the gun pod cradles are attached to the planeshooting at moving targets
  • the angle where the guns are focussing the target 
  • the standard accuracy of the used weapon 

I do not know if all this is ​considered in the calculation of the chance of hitting the target. This depends on programming.  

 

@ RFC, I'm not sure if that is right. I checked a sample on one of my planes for the marksman skills I & II.
If you see this in connection to additional the equipment you use then you find out (like in the examples)
that the advantage of marksman skill + the advantage of the collimator sight can be reduced by disadvantages caused by other equipment.

 

I want to say if you have only the colli sight advantage and you use equipment like the gas-operated guns then the effect of only the equipment is rather low.
Iff you add the marksman skills the reduction is still the same but the positive effect is still appreciable.

If you see the accurracy of fighting against moving targets...


 

... the first idea could be in this case it makes no difference. because there are no reducing effects.
But from my view the resulting accuracy of guns fighting moving targets should be 

  • the standard chance for the unequipped plane with unskilled pilot
  • with the additional advantage from the accuracy of the front-firing weapons
  • and with the additional advantage for shooting at moving targets 

 

Depends how the overall chance is calculated.
If it is a kind of addition the influence is less than if it is calculated as a multiplication of chances.

Nevertheless from my view the targeting skills of the player have a hude influence of the result, too.
This also implements the values which are adjusted for the mouse or joystick.   

 

 


Edited by KlausHetti, 17 August 2019 - 11:58 AM.

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apartclassic #5 Posted 17 August 2019 - 01:56 PM

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One of the skills improves autoaim correction of your guns (each has a small angle in which there is autoaim, believe it or not), the other one decreases dispersion. In other words one corrects for pilot, the other one makes tighter grouping of shots (as you can guess, most usable on multiple dakka dakka planes).

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Ziptop #6 Posted 17 August 2019 - 04:30 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 17 August 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

One of the skills improves autoaim correction of your guns

This is sort of what I was thinking their implementation may actually be.



KlausHetti #7 Posted 17 August 2019 - 07:59 PM

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apart, yeah, you are right!
There is more in these hitting mechanics.
It is not possible to explain the hit chance only with one overall chance of hitting.
There is the time of the flying bullet between the shot and the hit.

 

Nevertheless there is an advantage for the markmanship skills which can help to reduce the disadvantages of some equipment.



 


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RoyalFlyingCorps #8 Posted 18 August 2019 - 07:41 AM

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View PostKlausHetti, on 17 August 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

@ RFC, I'm not sure if that is right. I checked a sample on one of my planes for the marksman skills I & II.

If you see this in connection to additional the equipment you use then you find out (like in the examples)
that the advantage of marksman skill + the advantage of the collimator sight can be reduced by disadvantages caused by other equipment.

 

I think it's well enough known that I think the equipment system introduced in patch 2.0.5 is a nonsense.  As an aside, for me that that patch marks the moment where the WoWP team lost sight of what made this such an enjoyable game.

 

I have a spreadsheet for every specialised aircraft that calculates the effects of advantages and disadvantages to make sure the scenario you describe doesn't happen.  That I have to resort to a fairly complicated spreadsheet to do this tells you everything you need to know about why this equipment system is a nonsense.



Ziptop #9 Posted 18 August 2019 - 04:04 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, 

I have a spreadsheet for every specialised aircraft that calculates the effects of advantages and disadvantages to make sure the scenario you describe doesn't happen.  That I have to resort to a fairly complicated spreadsheet to do this tells you everything you need to know about why this equipment system is a nonsense.

Are you willing to share the fruits of your hard work? (the spreadsheet) 

 

I "Specialized" my P-12 just as an experiment and I'm less than overwhelmed. It doesn't just open up extra slots? It basically makes changes you have no influence in or forwarding of and leaves you with them. - as far as I can tell. 

 

I would therefore in future want to know what activating "Specialist" is going to do in advance of doing it 

 

 



apartclassic #10 Posted 18 August 2019 - 04:50 PM

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View PostZiptop, on 18 August 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

Are you willing to share the fruits of your hard work? (the spreadsheet) 

 

I "Specialized" my P-12 just as an experiment and I'm less than overwhelmed. It doesn't just open up extra slots? It basically makes changes you have no influence in or forwarding of and leaves you with them. - as far as I can tell. 

 

I would therefore in future want to know what activating "Specialist" is going to do in advance of doing it 

 

 

 

Depending on tier you will get more slots unlocked. Low tier planes don't really benefit, higher tiers do - both because of more slots, and more percentages involved that change.


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RoyalFlyingCorps #11 Posted 18 August 2019 - 05:27 PM

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View PostZiptop, on 18 August 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

Are you willing to share the fruits of your hard work? (the spreadsheet) 

 

I "Specialized" my P-12 just as an experiment and I'm less than overwhelmed. It doesn't just open up extra slots? It basically makes changes you have no influence in or forwarding of and leaves you with them. - as far as I can tell. 

 

I would therefore in future want to know what activating "Specialist" is going to do in advance of doing it

 

I can, but note I use OpenOffice rather than Microsoft Office at home and that, for lower tiers, the specialisation advantages and disadvantages are not really worth the effort.  It's the higher tier aircraft where paying careful attention to these pays off.

 

This is the tab for the tier 10 Me. P.1101, a plane where I try to emphasise both manoeuvrability and speed.  From this you might expect that one thing I would be looking to do was improve the aircraft's resistance to fire, for example.


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 18 August 2019 - 05:28 PM.


Sidus_Preclarum #12 Posted 18 August 2019 - 10:37 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 18 August 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

  From this you might expect that one thing I would be looking to do was improve the aircraft's resistance to fire, for example.

:unsure:

 

no ?






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