20 replies to this topic

[Ziptop]

Just wondering how many of us play with joystick rather than mouse and keys? (and if so, what setup are you using?) 

 

I'm currently looking at adding a throttle and maybe rudder pedals to this (and other games I play) so wanted to scope out users who might already have some interesting kit.

[Grison_SE]

When I started to play this game, (which by the way was by pure accident, I was looking for my Combat Flight Simulator discs which I of course had mislaid somewhere in this mess of a home office. Searched around the web for downloads of the game, and came across this site) I used my Logitech Wingman Extreme 3D for the first 100-200 battles. Tried the mouse/kbd after an update that messed up peoples settings for joysticks and found out that I liked it better, and played better too, (at least less worse) but I feel the urge to start using the stick again. Maybe register on the NA server and start from the beginning there.

[GonerNL]

Playing with a Thrustmaster T.16000M after my third Logitech Extreme 3D broke (this time all buttons on the stick itself stopped working, before that the X/Y axis in the stick gave out).

This stick feels a lot 'tougher', so I hope it survives my heavy handed play-style.

And if the rest of the Thrustmaster stuff is a good as the stick, they also have throttle and pedals (HOTAS version).

Edited by GonerNL, 09 September 2019 - 09:02 AM.

[Ziptop]

GonerNL, on 09 September 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

Playing with a Thrustmaster T.16000M after my third Logitech Extreme 3D broke (this time all buttons on the stick itself stopped working, before that the X/Y axis in the stick gave out).

This stick feels a lot 'tougher', so I hope it survives my heavy handed play-style.

And if the rest of the Thrustmaster stuff is a good as the stick, they also have throttle and pedals (HOTAS version).

Hi GonerNL 

Yes, I've got a T16000 stick myself. It's ok but I'm looking at starting to invest in some more serious kit - and that indeed is going to involve going down the HOTAS road and getting throttle and pedals also. 

Am interested in the Thrustmaster Warthog throttle but open to other input. As a lefty certain adaptations might be required to make whatever I get a little more comfortable.

[GonerNL]

The T.16000M is easily converted for lefthanded use, so you probably already did that.

That means you have to use right hand for the throttle anyway, right ? It can't be converted, I noticed.

 

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/143390-left-hand-stick-and-right-hand-throttle/

[Ziptop]

There are no such things as "can't" or "never" - a little Dremel action here, some 3d printing there and "voila" 

 

However, I am indeed looking for usefull resources like the one you posted.- or indeed actual users who have stripped their own throttles down and know what they look like inside. - knowing this stuff will help me chose a throttle which CAN be modified. (Without too much fuss) 

[dreambill]

I use a Logitech 3D (4th - 5th in a row, I lost count) They all brake at around 1 year more or less from various reasons. The good thing is they are replaced with new ones due to 3 years Warranty, so no reason to switch.

 

[Ensign_Steel]

I use a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro for arcade games like this. For actual flight sims, I have a Rhino X55 H.O.T.A.S system.

Why a joystick? I've been playing a lot of flight sims and air combat games in general since I was eight. Air combat is maybe my favorite genre.

[Ziptop]

Ensign_Steel, on 24 September 2019 - 10:23 PM, said:

I use a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro for arcade games like this. For actual flight sims, I have a Rhino X55 H.O.T.A.S system.

Why a joystick? I've been playing a lot of flight sims and air combat games in general since I was eight. Air combat is maybe my favorite genre.

Mine too. 

 

Out of interest why don't you use the HOTAS for WoWp? Are there any problems with mapping separate throttles this game? 

[zen_monk_]

Indeed, a throttle question. When using HOTAS, can you slide the speed incrementally up/down, or is it again like the switch, full/zero?

[Ziptop]

zen_monk_, on 26 September 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:

Indeed, a throttle question. When using HOTAS, can you slide the speed incrementally up/down, or is it again like the switch, full/zero?

On my T16000 I can use the throttle axis which is part of the stick incrementally. 

I would however prefer a separate throttle in my other hand to allow fast power reduction when in combat. Therefore I'm interested in any mapping issues what might occur in this game.

[GonerNL]

With joystick you can also set up a 'dead zone' between highest 'normal' throttle and boost for the slider. So you don't immediately slide into full boost ...

[Ensign_Steel]

Ziptop, on 26 September 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

Mine too. 

 

Out of interest why don't you use the HOTAS for WoWp? Are there any problems with mapping separate throttles this game? 

 

No mapping issues that I know of, or at least my X55 HOTAS system works wonderfully with WoWp. It's actually only about arcade vs. simulator flight model differences; in an arcade game like this, you make a lot of fast movements, fiddle a ton with the throttle and in the end you don't need more than a couple of buttons to operate everything. A small, light joystick is a lot better for arcade gameplay.

In a "hyper" realistic flight simulator, you need precision control over just about everything in order to squeeze out the absolute max performance from the war machine you're piloting. This is where the heavier and more "cumbersome" X55 system with all its bells and whistles excels. My favorite feature is the double throttle, you can set one side of it to control throttle, the other to control flaps. 

Edited by Ensign_Steel, 28 September 2019 - 10:50 AM.

[Ziptop]

Ensign_Steel, on 28 September 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

 

No mapping issues that I know of, or at least my X55 HOTAS system works wonderfully with WoWp. It's actually only about arcade vs. simulator flight model differences; in an arcade game like this, you make a lot of fast movements, fiddle a ton with the throttle and in the end you don't need more than a couple of buttons to operate everything. A small, light joystick is a lot better for arcade gameplay.

In a "hyper" realistic flight simulator, you need precision control over just about everything in order to squeeze out the absolute max performance from the war machine you're piloting. This is where the heavier and more "cumbersome" X55 system with all its bells and whistles excels. My favorite feature is the double throttle, you can set one side of it to control throttle, the other to control flaps. 

Regarding mapping - that's good to hear. As a lefty I'm actually looking for options that I might then also modify. (Including 3d printing or casting replacement grips) the X-55 isn't too expensive, so I might look at that as a candidate for my "lefty hotas" project.

 

What is the reliability like for you so far? 

Edited by Ziptop, 28 September 2019 - 02:36 PM.

[levlos]

Hey guys,

 

I have been playing with a Joystick since day 1, last year. I just cannot fathom how you can fly a plane with a mouse -sounds like me trying to steer a car using oars. Or eating noodles with my ankles. Or petting my cat with a pitchfork. There is something inherently wrong with using the mouse. The hair on my arms stand up.

Of course, pathetic jokes aside, what I feel I gain in quick response (SNAP BARREL ROLL!) and pseudo-impression of flying an actual plane, I loose in awareness. Indeed, moving the mouse around expands your field of view dramatically and gives you a serious edge in dogfighting -you can actually see what the opponent is up to, and not wildly guess looking at a tiny arrow in the minimap. But again, a pitchfork on a cat gets the job done in a blink. Not that I could ever approach any of my cats with a pitchfork, of course.

I sometimes use the mouse to play with my son side-by-side on two PCs, but I feel like the cockpit is full of water when I do not use the 'stick. If I ever suffer terminal brain damage and play bombers, I might enjoy using a mouse, or even a trackball. But my brain is not shrinking too much -yet.

On a different note, it seems that I should lift some weights, exercise more or take vitamins, because I haven't been able to wreck my Logitech Extreme 3D joystick yet. I should look into that. Maybe I should play with boxing gloves. Maybe my Woody Allen Fitness plan needs upgrading.

 

When will we have a "JOYSTICK WRECKER" ribbon in the game ?

 

Have fun and eat fruits,

Levlos

Edited by levlos, 02 October 2019 - 07:03 PM.

[Ensign_Steel]

Ziptop, on 28 September 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

Regarding mapping - that's good to hear. As a lefty I'm actually looking for options that I might then also modify. (Including 3d printing or casting replacement grips) the X-55 isn't too expensive, so I might look at that as a candidate for my "lefty hotas" project.

 

What is the reliability like for you so far? 

 

Well... it's OK - the weight of both modules is OK but you might want to add some weight to the joystick depending on how hard handed you are with it. I don't like the joystick trigger, it doesn't feel 'satisfying' to me - the movement range for it is too long. I would also have preferred a two-stage trigger, but both of these issues aren't major and I can totally live with them. You might have to add dead zone to the throttles, because they might have the same defect as mine and they won't stay completely back. They are also very stiff even on the loosest setting, so they might not be very usable for WoWp where I find myself sometimes really punishing and slapping around the throttle on my Logitech stick. It's perfect for flight simulators, though - especially if you're flying the ME-262, where throttling up or down too fast might damage the engines.

 

Otherwise the setup is great! Excellent button placement (and there are A LOT of them), the quality of switches, analog dials, buttons etc. are excellent. You can also change the joystick spring (springs are included!) to adjust how floppy you want it to be. There are holes running through both module bases so that you can fix them to your table if you wish. The biggest issue you might have with it is that it's very much a righty-setup.

Spoiler

Edited by Ensign_Steel, 02 October 2019 - 04:32 PM.

[Ziptop]

I've had a lot of joysticks in the past - and of the present mainstream offerings which cater for the Lefty the Thrustmaster T-16000 is ok. I've got a good one right now which hasn't started to twitch (touch wood) but I've had a couple where the twist sensor went nuts pretty quick. 

 

I've been feeling lately that what I really wanted was the full on HOTAS and rudder pedals experience. - and I'm more than happy to get experimental with 3d scanning, printing and modding handles to make this a reality. 

 

Therefore in addition to the rather expensive lefty flightstick I found at Virpil....I've gone nuts with the credit card and added a Throttle and pedals to the shopping basket. 

Looking forward to delivery date.

[Ziptop]

Regarding situational awareness when flying with a joystick. 

Yes. This isn't a problem that is limited to WoWp only though and outside of VR it's not one I've seen particularly well addressed in a lot of sims I've played.

 

Yes. You can add screens left and right and while that is helpful it's not actually the ONE place you really need to see in combat. The place you need most is just above the monitor you normally have. I.e - forward and above!  This is where your enemy will be when you are turning into a lag pursuit.(as if you were leaning back in the cockpit looking up and forward at maybe a 45 degree angle.) 

I don't really need to look out over each wing in combat. 

I do sort of need to look behind. But I'm ok with that view being a snap look with a pov hat. 

What WOULD be nice would be the option to map a forward+up view into a 2nd monitor which is mounted above the main monitor. - because in a turn fight. This is the view of where I am GOING to be.

But....I don't think I've ever found a sim that lefts me do that.

This one view alone would give a joystick user the situational awareness required in a frantic furball. 

[Ensign_Steel]

I myself liked how IL2 Sturmovik handled that whole looking around situation. They had snap view and also 45 degree panning with the screen staying in the spot until you moved the view back facing forward. It's so strange how pretty much no other flight sim has managed to do this.

[GonerNL]

Ziptop, on 02 October 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

This one view alone would give a joystick user the situational awareness required in a frantic furball. 

 

And mouse/keyboard users get that view by default ...  a very big advantage over joystick users.

I would love to be able to map an up-front view (thru the cockpit roof as it were) to my hat-switch. Not even on a 2nd monitor, just as a view like the others.