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The quirktastic 302


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Sidus_Preclarum #1 Posted 03 October 2019 - 12:43 PM

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Was wondering how would the people who actually know what they are doing (would) have kitted that weirdo once specced.

apartclassic #2 Posted 03 October 2019 - 01:02 PM

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It has speed, it doesn't have agility. After speccing it won't turn into a Yak, but going this way will help some; main advantage is boost and acceleration, so you might want to flesh that out. This thing is all about BnZ, once you try to turnfight you're doomed (because energy loss is Real™). YMMV though, because of your playstyle - if you can afford the tokens and equipment to experiment, try both things and see what suits you most.

Edited by apartclassic, 03 October 2019 - 01:02 PM.

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Sidus_Preclarum #3 Posted 03 October 2019 - 01:18 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 03 October 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

It has speed, it doesn't have agility. After speccing it won't turn into a Yak, but going this way will help some; main advantage is boost and acceleration, so you might want to flesh that out. This thing is all about BnZ, once you try to turnfight you're doomed (because energy loss is Real™). YMMV though, because of your playstyle - if you can afford the tokens and equipment to experiment, try both things and see what suits you most.

 

The thing is, that plane has 2 airfraime slots and 1 engine slot…

 

And the whole point of asking was to save tokens :p



apartclassic #4 Posted 03 October 2019 - 01:45 PM

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Don't take anything reducing speed. You might want to take +agility if you feel you need, but probably most beneficial is +speed. I don't use a boost upgrade anywhere on my planes (except one, for testing purposes), I compensate with boost economy, but I'd suspect either this or engine power would also be a good bet. As I sad, depends on your playstyle - and as said often I'm not a good reference, because of reasons. My setup might not work for you because of the way you fly, not because of 'meta' choices for a given plane.

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Sidus_Preclarum #5 Posted 03 October 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 03 October 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

Don't take anything reducing speed. You might want to take +agility if you feel you need, but probably most beneficial is +speed. I don't use a boost upgrade anywhere on my planes (except one, for testing purposes), I compensate with boost economy, but I'd suspect either this or engine power would also be a good bet. As I sad, depends on your playstyle - and as said often I'm not a good reference, because of reasons. My setup might not work for you because of the way you fly, not because of 'meta' choices for a given plane.

 

Uprated engine power doesn't affect boost acc except as a randomly obtainable enhancement bonus, right ?

 

Because, let me remind you that the nominal cruise speed of that ramjets+rocket  thing is 250kph.

 

Would more regular (non boost) thrust make it so that it loses speed slowlier when not boosting?

Also, that obviously makes polish a terrible idea, unless I'm even more stupid that I fear I am. So, what, lightweight+reinforced aiframe ? (I mean, lightweight + reinforced skin looks a wee bit dubious combination.)


Edited by Sidus_Preclarum, 03 October 2019 - 02:03 PM.


apartclassic #6 Posted 03 October 2019 - 02:37 PM

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https://worldofwarplanes.eu/news/devblog_equipment_full/

 

Polished skin is +speed, so Comrade Stalin approves, within reasons - if you feel the plane gets even more sluggish, don't use it. Reinforced airframe is -agility though, so rather a no-go, because starting with a low base AND high penalties with enhanced/calibrated, you end up with a flying brick (penalties to agility are bigger with this one than with the polished skin, so while I could recommend the skin, I'd definitely not take the airframe). 302 retains speed rather nicely, it doesn't stop dead in midair without boost - uprated engine gives you even better speed retention along with better acceleration (both with and without boosting), it's my default pick for all planes - personal preference, but in the current mechanics the speed bleeding is a significant factor. Up to you, really, because:

1) you can try agility build, if it suits you (something like lightweight engine + lightweight wings)

2) you can try speed build, if it suits you (something like polished skin + uprated engine or boost thing)

You don't have to fill every slot, because of modules counteracting each other, you also don't have to bring every one to max tech level. If you want to zip all around the map blasting stuff as you go (and in a single pass), it's the speed option; if you want to have a chance of some maneuvering and sticking to your targets, it's agility. Hence my rather evasive answers, because Specialization in case of 302 shows the basic precept - it doesn't make a plane uber, it specializes it towards what the particular pilot wants from the particular plane. You might want to do some maths with different combinations of modules, see what nets biggest gains, check the costs of upgrading and reassembling (for the optimum mix of bonus pros), and then decide for yourself.


Edited by apartclassic, 03 October 2019 - 02:37 PM.

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Sidus_Preclarum #7 Posted 03 October 2019 - 03:55 PM

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Thanks for the link. Was certain something of the sort was laying around somewhere, but I couldn't put my pointer on it.

 

I do play that thing as a BnZ (more like, AnZ, Annoy and Zoom, since those 20mm aren't exactly persistant heavyweight punchers, and the plane falls apart as soon as an enemy furrows his brow at you)

I'm not certain I understand the point of boosting the cruise speed in a plan which spends 95 % percent of its time above his miserable cruise speed… :unsure:  I guess the point of an uprated engine here _ unlike in most planes where it is to make the plane reach faster a higher cruise speed _ would be to have the plane lose its boost speed less steeply (both because of the increased acceleration _ actually, decreased deceleration _ and slightly higher target speed)

 

I indeed mixed up the maluses of reinforced skin and airframe. Which makes me even less decided on what to do.


Edited by Sidus_Preclarum, 03 October 2019 - 03:55 PM.


apartclassic #8 Posted 03 October 2019 - 04:46 PM

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In my book uprated engine equals more horsepower, so you decelerate slower and accelerate faster, without looking at top speed (because top speed here means being in the red, which in turn means decreased performance). Once you use up your initial boost after spawning, you're above cruising speed anyway, slowly slowing down (sorry, couldn't resist this bad pun) while the engine is on cooldown. When you make a pass, you also zoom away faster while wildly (sorry again) wiggling (and sorry yet again) your tail to evade.

 

Herein lies the big mistery - wiggling your tail decreases your speed, so the more you avoid, the slower you are, thus remaining in enemy's range longer; with the uprated engine however, the decrease is less noticeable, and since you also accelerate better, things even out nicely - the effect can be admired in the rearview mirror, with all the missed shots directed at you, as you inevitably warp away. To maximize your results (in any plane to a certain degree) you 'zoom' in to your intended target zone with boost, try to fight it out without boosting so you can zoom away with full power, either performing tactical relocation (aka 'retreat' in some circles, but we do not endorse defetism) or in search of another victim. Rinse and repeat for the glory and giggles. Cruise speed is largely irrelevant as your combat priority, it matters when you move from zone to zone. Keep in mind that in most cases cruise speed does not equal optimum maneuvering speed (which for the 302 is 563 km/h, give or take 20 or 30). Were you to try and fight within that range all the time, you'd be constantly overshooting your targets (as in, passing them by in your rokit babe while they struggle to keep up).

 

My tactics is to teleport to a location within 100-200m behind my target, hit on brakes (tadam, 100 km/h stall speed here) and pump them full of lead, hopefully critting something - cannons do that rather often, interestingly enough - then teleport away, to a spot behind the next frag. If I can't finish my target in the first pass, I pass on the opportunity (erm, sowwy... too much coffee perhaps...) and molest something else before coming back to collect. The aviation tactics manuals call that style the 'Joyride', where frags and score are irrelevant. What matters is the pure joy of trolling everything and anything, with little fear of punishment. Swoop in out of nowhere, cripple or kill your target, dissapear into the distance when attacked. Create the impression you're all over the map (and believe me, I've done it many times - because with 302 and in t6-7 battle there aren't many planes that can counter you; t8 is more challenging, but still doable), in every sector of the map at once - because with this plane you can. Fly this one for fun, not for results - being a t7 premium it will result in good xp for you pilot and good money anyway, as long as your kills and assists outweigh your respawns.

 

Final note - with the quirky planes like this one the particular equipment config matters only when you face the same plane. Only then those differences in agility or firepower, or speed, come to play. Otherwise you use your plane's advantages where and how they can make a contribution. In case of 302 no HF is safe, most MRFs and LFs are too slow to punish you, you can avoid tailgunners of bombers and GAA with your speed and positioning. Truly, the biggest challenge are light ADA (defence bots), because they are ALWAYS on the verge of stalling and they gravitate towards the center of your plane regardless of anything that's happening around them. Everything else is... food... entertainment... seals...


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zen_monk_ #9 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:32 PM

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Nice set of instructions, will reread once I purchase 302 (I fell out of the event, was not willing to jump through hoops with planes/tiers I don't like).

 

Thank you :honoring:


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Sidus_Preclarum #10 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:40 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 03 October 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

 Cruise speed [...] matters when you move from zone to zone
Well, not in the case of the 302.

Edited by Sidus_Preclarum, 03 October 2019 - 05:43 PM.


apartclassic #11 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:54 PM

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View PostSidus_Preclarum, on 03 October 2019 - 05:40 PM, said:

Well, not in the case of the 302.

 

Mkay, here's the thing: stock 302 without a pilot, cruise speed 250 km/h, optimum airspeed 563 km/h. You do not fight with your cruise speed, you fight as close to your optimum as possible, for maximum agility.

 

Another example, of a conventional plane, on the same tier. The I-220, again stock and with no pilot, has a cruise speed of 450 km/h, optimum airspeed of 409 km/h. Close, but not the same. Is it clearer now? Cruise speed is what you have when you run out to kitchen for cookies while flying from garrison to airfield; optimum is what you're trying to have when fighting with Potap or KING OF THE SKYS (wink wink). For the 302 it's even simpler, because if you do not intend to turnfight, your optimum doesn't matter. Zoom in, blap, zoom out - with the blapping part at the speed you need to keep your target in your crosshairs.


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Sidus_Preclarum #12 Posted 03 October 2019 - 06:36 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 03 October 2019 - 06:54 PM, said:

 

Mkay, here's the thing: stock 302 without a pilot, cruise speed 250 km/h, optimum airspeed 563 km/h. You do not fight with your cruise speed, you fight as close to your optimum as possible, for maximum agility.

Yes.
So, you agree that boosting the *cruise speed* is not really useful ?

apartclassic #13 Posted 03 October 2019 - 06:41 PM

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You made me do a test run, just for you :) Took me a while to understand that you probably are joking about the relevance of cruise speed for 302, but the battle and screenies were already made, would be a shame to waste them :)

 

So, this is how it ended up (regular t6-7 battle), I was focusing on speeds at various moments more than on target selection:

Spoiler

 

Now - this is right at the start of the battle, zooming to the first target zone, as fast as possible:

Spoiler

 

Found a target, getting on its tail; speed as close to opti as I can, to stay on target:

Spoiler

 

Zooming to the next target - speed is irrelevant, intention is to get close:

Spoiler

 

Sector flipped, off to the next sector - again, as fast as possible:

Spoiler

 

First target - engine cooling down, I intend to blap this one in one pass (did), then switch to the red one in background; till then I expect to be slightly above my optimum speed, so I can react best to the bot's behaviour:

Spoiler

 

The red P-47 decided to run away (and I expected it to turn either towards me or ground targets below) - so with my now fresh engine I could zoom after him easily:

Spoiler

 

And it goes on. Cruise speed doesn't matter, optimum speed is relative to your plans for the engagement. You use warp speed between sectors, you match speeds with your target, you warp away.

Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

Edited by apartclassic, 03 October 2019 - 06:46 PM.

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apartclassic #14 Posted 03 October 2019 - 06:42 PM

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View PostSidus_Preclarum, on 03 October 2019 - 06:36 PM, said:

Yes.
So, you agree that boosting the *cruise speed* is not really useful ?

 

When you put it this way, yes I do. It doesn't matter. All it will do is a few seconds difference on reaching sectors - and for the actual combat cruise speed has zero bearing.


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Sidus_Preclarum #15 Posted 03 October 2019 - 06:45 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 03 October 2019 - 07:42 PM, said:

 

. All it will do is a few seconds difference on reaching sectors -

Not even that, you almost *never* get down to "cruise" speed in that thing.






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