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Legendary Trials: Thunder vs Tempest


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RoyalFlyingCorps #81 Posted 30 October 2019 - 07:06 AM

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That works for me too.  If I have a bad streak I restart the game and get an even worse one!

bug #82 Posted 30 October 2019 - 08:40 AM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 30 October 2019 - 07:00 AM, said:

The data I've colleced shows that you are a bit more likely to be bottom tier in a tier 7 plane than you are top tier, but it's far from the worst tier for this problem.  Tier 4 is very bad for it.  You were just unlucky, Invader.


I also find tier 4 and 7 to be the most unbalanced tiers. I guess that most players play tier 5 and 8, so tier 4 and 7 automaticly get affected by that. Not fun for those new to the game grinding these tiers for the first time.



blindfoId #83 Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:17 AM

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The principles of WoWp's MM system are described over here. 

bug #84 Posted 30 October 2019 - 11:38 AM

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View PostblindfoId, on 30 October 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

The principles of WoWp's MM system are described over here. 


I read it twice and think it confirms the MM is hurting tiers directly under a tier with many players. If most players are in tier 8, then MM primary pick them and add players that are -1 to fill the team. So if most players are in tier 5 and 8, naturally it is bad to play tier 4 and 7.

Wish it was not so, as my favourite planes are in tier 4 and 7, lol

 



Renwor #85 Posted 30 October 2019 - 01:33 PM

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I read it same, exept, tier IV should not be hurt that bad. It is the tier where you can still do dailies for low range and at the same time most special missions start at IV   (like Vampire /Xp-55 missions) so I would expect IV to be populated and tier III to suffer. Tier VII surely  suffers under VIII oppression.


 


drakkanax #86 Posted 30 October 2019 - 02:19 PM

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View Postbug, on 30 October 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:


I also find tier 4 and 7 to be the most unbalanced tiers. I guess that most players play tier 5 and 8, so tier 4 and 7 automaticly get affected by that. Not fun for those new to the game grinding these tiers for the first time.

In my experience usually it's far from that. Tier 4 is the top tier for the low tier missions which is a niche by itself so there are many players in there and you get top tier often enough. Tier 7 normally is also the top mid-tier so it has advantage as many people play mid tier missions with tier 6 aircraft. Now in time of missions and weekend events things do change a lot, so it does happen that those tiers are badly impacted sometimes.

 

View PostblindfoId, on 30 October 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

The principles of WoWp's MM system are described over here. 

I'm pretty sure there were several noticeable updates since that article has been published that are not reflected in this text therefore it is outdated and incomplete. For example there were changes in the bot scripts(there are multiple different scripts per class) and the "minimizing queue time" target has been modified in its behavior several times. Further the text claims same tier battles are possible and those do not happen. Maybe you're not up to speed with the current MM process. Or even more likely the implementation is buggy and doesn't follow the specs properly. Like two bottom tier players against a team of all bots... which is not supposed to be possible by this specs but I have witnessed multiple times.


Edited by drakkanax, 30 October 2019 - 02:27 PM.


RoyalFlyingCorps #87 Posted 30 October 2019 - 02:32 PM

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View Postdrakkanax, on 30 October 2019 - 02:19 PM, said:

In my experience usually it's far from that. Tier 4 is the top tier for the low tier missions which is a niche by itself so there are many players in there and you get top tier often enough. Tier 7 normally is also the top mid-tier so it has advantage as many people play mid tier missions with tier 6 aircraft. Now in time of missions and weekend events things do change a lot, so it does happen that those tiers are badly impacted sometimes.


My statistics collected over months of battles show that you are likely to see tier 5 aircraft when flying tier 4s something between 60% and 70% of the time.  Your subjective experience and a posteriori reasoning are at odds with the reality of the experience.


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 30 October 2019 - 02:33 PM.


AnCh #88 Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:36 PM

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Same here. The MM is no longer as described in that article.

I can give the example for today's frustrating matches where I had to quit after aprox 6 matches with all round defeats in Tier 2,3 and 9 planes where I was constantly thrown with higher tiers that had more human players than my team.

If that is the real MM, than it is BROKEN as... (you can add whatever suits you).



drakkanax #89 Posted 30 October 2019 - 07:37 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 30 October 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

 Your subjective experience and a posteriori reasoning are at odds with the reality of the experience.

hehe. your "reality"... "objectively collected" .. really? I do have a math education so I'll pass up this BS and just say that maybe the Russian Number Generator hates you for some reason.. I've got many of these streaks myself as stated much earlier in the thread, so I don't say they don't happen. I actually said the opposite if you go back and read, but the idea that you, with your few games, have statistically significant representation of the MM is just ridiculous.


Edited by drakkanax, 30 October 2019 - 07:38 PM.


Sidus_Preclarum #90 Posted 30 October 2019 - 08:17 PM

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I suggest you two present your samples ,  null hypothesis and test used. :3

Edited by Sidus_Preclarum, 30 October 2019 - 08:18 PM.


drakkanax #91 Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:26 PM

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View PostSidus_Preclarum, on 30 October 2019 - 08:17 PM, said:

I suggest you two present your samples ,  null hypothesis and test used. :3

Well the null hypothesis against the published MM spec is that it doesn't take into account people leaving the queue. Therefore it applies a static solution to a dynamic problem. The end result is MM that is not properly described  by the published spec. The test to apply with this "hypothesis" is to provide proof of such matches that do contradict the MM specs. The one I suggested above is one example. MM with missing top tier players in general is a weaker version of the same test, as it breaks the rules, but not as many of them.

 

On the MM being rigged problem ... well the MM is not random, therefore it is "rigged". The only random part of it is what players enter the queue, at what times and if some of them leave. Everything else is an algorithm, not random.. except for bot scripts I guess, which is not significant in that sense. Now how it is rigged and why is not easy to define as it's a complex environment. There are many cases where the MM will be heavily biased.. continuously, even if not deliberately designed to be that way.

 

There are ways to improve mathematical randomness in such queue cases, though I see no clues that WG are using any such. In general making the problem "more static" and then applying randomness does that. Will this solve the MM? Probably not as a whole, but it may improve it a bit.

 

WG claim not to use player ranking and stats in any way. That is generally good approach and it has it's benefits. It is a complex problem both in concept and in implementation.

These loss streaks are incredibly annoying. I've had streaks of like 9-10 losses in a row in 5-6 of which I've been top player and in 3-4 with winged legend and frankly you feel like the MM throws at you the worst players that ever connected to the game.... and some of them even have top notch specialized planes. Research in randomness though shows that such streaks are not as uncommon as one imagines "random" to be. So my point is just because the MM is not truly random and is poorly documented doesn't mean it's intentionally trying to screw you. i.e. that streak shown above is perfectly possible in truly random circumstances. Though there may be circumstances that lead to such effect being more pronounced, particularly on some specific tiers. But yeah it does feel like it is trying to screw you, I have experienced it and I do sympathize with fellow players bug and RoyalFlyingCorps.

 

 


Edited by drakkanax, 30 October 2019 - 10:39 PM.


prawiejakzywiec666 #92 Posted 31 October 2019 - 05:15 AM

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Please colleagues you are discussing MM problematics with the thread concerning recent event. Everybody has to face the same MM mechanism therefore in the long term it is equal for everybody. There is no need to dig more. I also faced uneven matches in which I did my best to win. I do not remember longer loosing streak than 3 or 4 in a row recently.

chikken


CaptainAim #93 Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:15 AM

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View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 31 October 2019 - 07:15 AM, said:

Everybody has to face the same MM mechanism therefore in the long term it is equal for everybody.

 

  1. It doesn't matter if it is the same mechanism if it provides different results and a different gameplay experience for players.
  2. That is exactly the problem the event is only 3 days and not long term to allow results to even in time.

 

View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 31 October 2019 - 07:15 AM, said:

I do not remember longer loosing streak than 3 or 4 in a row recently.

 

  1. It's not about wins, it's about higher tier battles, battle after battle.
  2. Memory pills might help.

 



prawiejakzywiec666 #94 Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:52 AM

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View PostCaptainAim, on 31 October 2019 - 07:15 AM, said:

 

  1. It doesn't matter if it is the same mechanism if it provides different results and a different gameplay experience for players.
  2. That is exactly the problem the event is only 3 days and not long term to allow results to even in time.

 

 

  1. It's not about wins, it's about higher tier battles, battle after battle.
  2. Memory pills might help.

 

Blame everything but yourself about your performance.

Thx for reminding me about the pills.


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rheaghorn #95 Posted 31 October 2019 - 09:04 AM

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View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 31 October 2019 - 06:15 AM, said:

Please colleagues you are discussing MM problematics with the thread concerning recent event. Everybody has to face the same MM mechanism therefore in the long term it is equal for everybody. There is no need to dig more. I also faced uneven matches in which I did my best to win. I do not remember longer loosing streak than 3 or 4 in a row recently.

 

In fact, at the end, that’s the way it should be ! We all agree on that.

==> So : why does everybody seem to agree that it’s NOT ?

 

If only one or two players express this feeling, it could be due to these people : bad day, unlucky, bad game ...

==> But this is almost every player who feels the same way.

 

View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 31 October 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

Blame everything but yourself about your performance.

Thx for reminding me about the pills.

 

If you’re talking about the personal performance of chevrons, obviously it’s only related to the actions you're taking in game.
But if you’re talking about the winrate, it’s extremely related to the actions of other players and bots. You can very well lose a game when you have obtained the maximum points in terms of chevrons.



prawiejakzywiec666 #96 Posted 31 October 2019 - 09:33 AM

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Of course... You can loose a lot of games even though you did your best. What's wrong with that? You have to have strategic approach to every single fight and do not orient yourself on the number of chevrons for a certain battle.

Chevrons reflect ONLY your personal performance on a certain type of plane in a single battle. You can shoot down 10 bombers etc on a heavy over a garrison and still loose to a group of players whose performance was poor - 1-2 chevrons. But maybe they were capp8ng the important/strategic sections and you were just going after your ACE medal...


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KhanSabin #97 Posted 31 October 2019 - 09:50 AM

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What are you all winning about - go play WOT where battles are +2 tiers and if your tank is stock it equals +3 tiers  and you are most likely to do 0 damage  unable to penetrate any armor- here u got only +1 and if plane is stock still deals damagage - mimimimimimmi

Edited by KhanSabin, 31 October 2019 - 09:51 AM.


blindfoId #98 Posted 31 October 2019 - 09:56 AM

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Pilots! 

 

Last weekend, thunder and tempest ruled the sky of World of Warplanes — courageous pilots clashed in a fierce battle. Our sincere congratulations to the winners, the supply team is on its way to deliver the well-deserved rewards to you!

 

USA

Mastery

Spoiler

 

Perseverance

Spoiler

 

UK

Mastery

Spoiler

 

Perseverance

Spoiler

 

The current number of your chevrons can be found here. 



blindfoId #99 Posted 31 October 2019 - 10:04 AM

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I would be grateful if you could avoid offtopic and move to another thread.

CaptainAim #100 Posted 31 October 2019 - 10:12 AM

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View PostblindfoId, on 31 October 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

I would be grateful if you could avoid offtopic and move to another thread.

 

I bet that one nobody reads would be great, but ok. No more posting from me.






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