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Heavyweight Fights


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deaxter_hero #61 Posted 09 November 2019 - 07:54 PM

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View PostSPIDER000, on 09 November 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

You have described it pretty well, there is no point I could disagree, but lets emphasize one aspect of this issue.

 

This tactical aproach, of destroying GAAs and Bombers can be performed with any other heavy (and it can be done even more effectively), while Ki-94-I cannot execute another actions, that other heavies could. I mean, there is very specific way, how to play it (that u have described above), but even in this role it is not excelent, just average at best.

 

And that's why this plane is considered terrible.

 

Indeed, to make it straightforward - I don´t like the plane, it is horrible, I am on my toes when playing it, staring at minimap and swearing after I press LMB. I won it somehow, I think it was in some crate for missions and I had total of 4 battles with it before I put it away. Then I saw video of Vee bat about it (who was sort of positive about it) and took it out for extra 5 battles just to reassure myself I don´t want to play it  :rolleyes:.


 


CaptainAim #62 Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:12 PM

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View Postclovisbxl, on 09 November 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

Well... I'm indeed a newcomer, I only started during the beta of this game ;)

 

It doesn't matter when you started but how many battles you have played, especially with that specific plane. And even more than that how you specialize it. Does it have ultimate equipment and which kind?

Winning a battle is not entirely up to you, it is team game. If you and / or other team mates feed the enemy with points and sectors and also can't find a way to work together going each for a different sector just to die there that is all it takes for the game to be lost.

 

The exception to the rule is made by a handful of skilled players with 2-3 times your battle count, like Spider000, Press_2 and a few others who can decisively turn the balance of a fight. But even for them it is hard when they have a strong opposition. No plane, no matter how bad it is can return a 100% loss rate. If you somehow like it and have the time to do it, then play a few hundred battles in it and you will learn a lot about heavies, then when you will switch to better heavies life will seem much easier. To have skill with a difficult plane you have to play it on a daily basis. I have had experiences so different with the same plane ranging from "OMG I really own the skies in this one, I love it" to "What the....? Is it me or this plane just got worse?"

 

People always try to find the reasons behind their failures and expect reality to bend on their dreams. When that doesn't happen they look for someone to blame, but never start with themselves as the cause of failure. It is not you and in my opinion it is not the plane to blame fully either but your lack of practice with it and poor/bad specialization/pilot skills you have selected or your flying style doesn't fit the plane. So make some changes to any of that and see if it helps. My advice would be that if it sucks in some area don't make it even worse through specialization. 



clovisbxl #63 Posted 10 November 2019 - 12:59 AM

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View PostCaptainAim, on 09 November 2019 - 11:12 PM, said:

It doesn't matter when you started but how many battles you have played, especially with that specific plane. And even more than that how you specialize it. Does it have ultimate equipment and which kind?

Winning a battle is not entirely up to you, it is team game. If you and / or other team mates feed the enemy with points and sectors and also can't find a way to work together going each for a different sector just to die there that is all it takes for the game to be lost.

 

The exception to the rule is made by a handful of skilled players with 2-3 times your battle count, like Spider000, Press_2 and a few others who can decisively turn the balance of a fight. But even for them it is hard when they have a strong opposition. No plane, no matter how bad it is can return a 100% loss rate. If you somehow like it and have the time to do it, then play a few hundred battles in it and you will learn a lot about heavies, then when you will switch to better heavies life will seem much easier. To have skill with a difficult plane you have to play it on a daily basis. I have had experiences so different with the same plane ranging from "OMG I really own the skies in this one, I love it" to "What the....? Is it me or this plane just got worse?"

 

People always try to find the reasons behind their failures and expect reality to bend on their dreams. When that doesn't happen they look for someone to blame, but never start with themselves as the cause of failure. It is not you and in my opinion it is not the plane to blame fully either but your lack of practice with it and poor/bad specialization/pilot skills you have selected or your flying style doesn't fit the plane. So make some changes to any of that and see if it helps. My advice would be that if it sucks in some area don't make it even worse through specialization. 

 

Thx for the leason... but if we only take the number of battle as a criterion, I have around 1200 battle more than you considering period before 2.0 (1.9 and before also before reset).

I never pretended to be an god of war neither even good at this game, I'm indeed a "casual" in this game and I'm always open to good advices when relevant...

But here my question was only about one specific plane I won in a crate a long time ago, and I tried to play Friday because it is listed for the current event, and also to go further than my initial (bad) opinion about this plane...

 

The results of my tests yesterday was : no victory at all with this plane, playing 1 hour in total for this plane (mixing with other planes and victories...), and even performing "not so bad" parties with this piece of sh...! (>= 10k PP, finishing first of the team etc...). And the pilot is the one from my A7M with all needed competences, even both competencies to fight against fire !

Apparently there is a consensus to say this plane is just terrible, even confirmed by Spider000 you are mentioning as a reference and I agree his explanation about this plane : it is too specialized in a single role, and it is just average in this specific role.

 

That's currently the only plane in that game I'm quite sure the "white bots" will kill me even if I'm not alone, and I'm not even sure I will manage to kill only one.  

Comparing to my BF110E or a beaufighter, I go alone in a base and I take the base killing the 2 heavies, one fighter and destroying 2 ground targets with my 2 bombs (and I keep the rockets of the beaufighter for next base or a red coming in front...) !  But I agree this comparison is not really fair because those planes are specialized.

 

So today, just to confirm my feeling, I purchased the Ki-102 that was unlocked, and I had better results compared to the ki-94-1 with stock crew/plane and no specialization.

By the way, this Ki-102 seems quite good, but after a party with this ki-94-1, I would even be happy to fly with a KV-1 ! 

 

Now, if you have really a magical way to play this plane and so stopping being completely ridiculous comparing to any equivalent heavy fighter, I'm really open to your explanations.

By the way, I won a party with the Ki-94-1 today... the kind of party were you are in a team together with Spider000 and Press_2, the result was eventually worst in term of conquest compared to all the previous defeats :facepalm:



RoyalFlyingCorps #64 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:00 AM

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Anything will feel good after a Ki-94-I, even a Tigercat or a BV P.215.02.  To do well in that plane you need a map with command centres one of which is owned by the enemy (so you have bomber flights at which to shoot), bad bomber and heavy players on the opposing team and other planes on the enemy team that can't or don't bother to try to get up to you.  If you try almost anything else, for instance, turn fighting with German GAAs, which you would lose, you will not do well.

 

In other words, the niche the plane occupies is so small that most of the time it has few opportunities to play to its very limited strengths.



SPIDER000 #65 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:46 AM

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View Postclovisbxl, on 10 November 2019 - 12:59 AM, said:

So today, just to confirm my feeling, I purchased the Ki-102 that was unlocked, and I had better results compared to the ki-94-1 with stock crew/plane and no specialization.

By the way, this Ki-102 seems quite good, but after a party with this ki-94-1, I would even be happy to fly with a KV-1 !

 

Ki-102 is one of the best tier VI planes - I would say even better then Me.410, which I really enjoyed to play.

This japanese heavy is very versatile and capable of engaging with almost any enemy on that tier. That fast-firing 57mm autocanon can tear planes apart.

 

Main problem of Ki-94-I is, in my opinion, not speed, or maneuverability, but those guns. They are all wing mounted - both 30mm and 37mm - thus somehow inacurate. And also quickly overheating. If those guns could hit enemy, like USSR multiroles, or even mentioned K-102 (these planes have their autocanons mounted in cowling), this plane would not be considered that useles. But it just won't do that dmg, that you would expect from such a big armament.



houghtonbee #66 Posted 10 November 2019 - 09:33 AM

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Doubt I'll make the leaderboards but I have refound some love for HF through being 'encouraged' to play them this weekend. Cheers WG.

clovisbxl #67 Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:18 AM

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View PostSPIDER000, on 10 November 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

 

Ki-102 is one of the best tier VI planes - I would say even better then Me.410, which I really enjoyed to play.

This japanese heavy is very versatile and capable of engaging with almost any enemy on that tier. That fast-firing 57mm autocanon can tear planes apart.

 

Main problem of Ki-94-I is, in my opinion, not speed, or maneuverability, but those guns. They are all wing mounted - both 30mm and 37mm - thus somehow inacurate. And also quickly overheating. If those guns could hit enemy, like USSR multiroles, or even mentioned K-102 (these planes have their autocanons mounted in cowling), this plane would not be considered that useles. But it just won't do that dmg, that you would expect from such a big armament.

ok, that's the reason I was feeling better with this Ki-102 :great:

 

I already put equipment to limit the gun overheating on Ki-94-1 and with boom and zoom, it's quite sufficient (of course, longer is better...).

Once more, you are finding the exact words to explain my feeling about this Ki-94-1 : the frustration to never hit the target when expected, and the big surprize when I manage to kill a target !

 

Last but not the least... the reticle disappeared during a party yesterday so it was really a pleasure to try to hit targets... bug, bad key pressed? I don't know : I stopped the game, cleaned the cache as usual and the reticle is present again)

 



CaptainAim #68 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:06 PM

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incredible lag in the last battle for all players; bombs and planes dissapear bullets going crazy

 



SPIDER000 #69 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:17 PM

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Originally I wrote long coherent text describing my feelings about this event stage, but it disapeared before I could post it (my incompetence).

And as I am not willing to struggle with writing it all again... and noone could read it anyway, I'll summarize it in few brief points:

 

High expectations --> enthusiasm --> few relatively good battles in the begining --> determination to surpass it --> maximal tryharding --> terrible matchmaking --> unbalanced teams --> inconvenient map layouts --> constant superiorities --> extremely short battles --> many annoying, malicious and mean players --> frustration --> cumulation of anger --> suppression of cumulated anger --> even more frustration --> more malicious players --> inevitable outburst --> breakodown --> engaging into verbal conflict (only once! - could have been worse) --> regrets of not ragequiting earlier --> realisation "ok, screw it - no need to be first - not worth it - it's just a game..." --> Overthinking --> "Actually, I have never became so pissed of while playing WoWp like during this event stage..." --> "Ok, time for a brake - just gimme that Goblin and make this over already."

 

--> And here we are now... So, that's it. Anyone with similar experience during event?



InVictuS_ShaDoW #70 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:57 PM

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"just gimme that Goblin and make this over already." I am also already tired, but as it was said A it should be and B. It would be a pity to let go at this stage ...

Edited by InVictuS_ShaDoW, 10 November 2019 - 08:58 PM.


prawiejakzywiec666 #71 Posted 10 November 2019 - 09:02 PM

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I'm also tired but would like to pick 3 chevrons for this stage in order to have to make only 2 in the last one...

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Spartan_93 #72 Posted 10 November 2019 - 09:49 PM

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No, I managed to get 1 chevron in the bombers stage and I'm happy to get some crates and a new plane.

Now I don't play for this event anymore, because studies, job and tryharding WoWp is just too much for me.



deaxter_hero #73 Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:14 PM

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View PostSPIDER000, on 10 November 2019 - 08:17 PM, said:

Originally I wrote long coherent text describing my feelings about this event stage, but it disapeared before I could post it (my incompetence).

And as I am not willing to struggle with writing it all again... and noone could read it anyway, I'll summarize it in few brief points:

 

High expectations --> enthusiasm --> few relatively good battles in the begining --> determination to surpass it --> maximal tryharding --> terrible matchmaking --> unbalanced teams --> inconvenient map layouts --> constant superiorities --> extremely short battles --> many annoying, malicious and mean players --> frustration --> cumulation of anger --> suppression of cumulated anger --> even more frustration --> more malicious players --> inevitable outburst --> breakodown --> engaging into verbal conflict (only once! - could have been worse) --> regrets of not ragequiting earlier --> realisation "ok, screw it - no need to be first - not worth it - it's just a game..." --> Overthinking --> "Actually, I have never became so pissed of while playing WoWp like during this event stage..." --> "Ok, time for a brake - just gimme that Goblin and make this over already."

 

--> And here we are now... So, that's it. Anyone with similar experience during event?

 

Yes, couple of points sound very familiar :). All these criteria wg has been introducing for these contests are not perfect by definition. Ever since they have tried to (in good faith I believe) reinvent the wheel and exclude win rate as dominant criteria by introducing aircraft grades, personal points and what not, it will never be perfect I am afraid (on other hand, no one likes low tier wr stat padders either). Respawns shuffled the cards too. I have written couple of times, that Capture Points are closest to real relevance of a player currently, that they are much more important than personal points e.g. But this event has shown, that even this somewhat valid measure is not perfect when we try to get the highest number of cap points. Because all of the sudden you find out, that in order to get most cap points you must NOT have winning as a priority. Which is sad and against my nature. That if you play to win only, the games last for too short and you win with let us say 360 cap points many times. And so my "best" game of 835 points was on LOSS, where I prolonged artificially the game by giving enemy extra time to recap. To be honest - I did not want to lose it, but I lost because I did not try to win fast enough. And my friend (one of the best - if not the best - pilots in this game) confirmed to me that he had achieved highest score on loss as well. Anyway, as we have some competition going on at least it is something new and we are exploring new horizons :).  


Edited by deaxter_hero, 11 November 2019 - 09:47 PM.

 


InVictuS_ShaDoW #74 Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:48 PM

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my best battle, but how many factors influenced this result, don't ask ...


Edited by InVictuS_ShaDoW, 10 November 2019 - 11:59 PM.


deaxter_hero #75 Posted 10 November 2019 - 11:25 PM

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View PostInVictuS_ShaDoW, on 10 November 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:


my best battle, but how many factors influenced this result, don't ask ...

 

Wow, just wow. I believe this is most cap points I have ever seen. Guys, can anyone of you beat that?


 


prawiejakzywiec666 #76 Posted 10 November 2019 - 11:42 PM

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View PostInVictuS_ShaDoW, on 10 November 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:


my best battle, but how many factors influenced this result, don't ask ...

You ugly cheeter... Good we're clan mates ;)


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clovisbxl #77 Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:32 AM

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View PostInVictuS_ShaDoW, on 10 November 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:


 

my best battle, but how many factors influenced this result, don't ask ...

Congrats!

 

I think main factors are here: skills of course, and 10:34 !

When most of the parties are ending after 3 or 4 minutes in tier 5-6-7, it's a little bit harder to compete for mastery...

 

I don't know about higher tiers during this event, if people can give feed-back for tiers 8-9-10?



Shark1530 #78 Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:35 AM

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View PostSPIDER000, on 10 November 2019 - 08:17 PM, said:

Originally I wrote long coherent text describing my feelings about this event stage, but it disapeared before I could post it (my incompetence).

And as I am not willing to struggle with writing it all again... and noone could read it anyway, I'll summarize it in few brief points:

 

High expectations --> enthusiasm --> few relatively good battles in the begining --> determination to surpass it --> maximal tryharding --> terrible matchmaking --> unbalanced teams --> inconvenient map layouts --> constant superiorities --> extremely short battles --> many annoying, malicious and mean players --> frustration --> cumulation of anger --> suppression of cumulated anger --> even more frustration --> more malicious players --> inevitable outburst --> breakodown --> engaging into verbal conflict (only once! - could have been worse) --> regrets of not ragequiting earlier --> realisation "ok, screw it - no need to be first - not worth it - it's just a game..." --> Overthinking --> "Actually, I have never became so pissed of while playing WoWp like during this event stage..." --> "Ok, time for a brake - just gimme that Goblin and make this over already."

 

--> And here we are now... So, that's it. Anyone with similar experience during event?

Somewhere in beginning I done in some around 20 battles solid result and I knew it it will not be much better than that for a lot of reasons you already mention. It is enough probably for at least 2-3 chevrons in Mastery. And I do not why I said, let s try this time Perseverance lol! But why, I ask myself now?! Anyway who knows, maybe I will reach this time in first 5 in Perseverance as I was stupid enough to try Perseverance. In Mastery I am around average 630, only 10 more I got after that around 20 battles for Mastery, and I though it will be like that, but that s why I accumulate a lot for Perseverance..Well let see what results will bring to all of us.... 



Shark1530 #79 Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:36 AM

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View PostInVictuS_ShaDoW, on 10 November 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:


 

my best battle, but how many factors influenced this result, don't ask ...

Omg!



CaptainAim #80 Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:53 AM

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View PostSPIDER000, on 10 November 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

--> And here we are now... So, that's it. Anyone with similar experience during event?

 

That was my daily experience in wowp, you mean ... that is not the "normal" way of playing the game? :)

 

For me it was even worse. I really wanted to play british or american planes during the event, but given the fact that I was on tier 8 with one and 7 with the other 2 days before the event, I managed only to move to tier 8 with both lines and realize none of these is consistent cp provider.

 

Plan B: the axis planes. Grinded the tier 6 japanese, nice plane, unspecialized it was not consistent. Next on the list BF 109 Z. The one I once hated the most from this line. Now it became the favorite, the only one that provided some fun, nut not enough points. I remembered I once had a tier 8 german heavy specialized and quite okish. Also remebered that I sold it to make credits for tier 9. So I repurchased it. The tier 8 Me 262. Bought back some equipment, scraped a pilot from somewhere and headed on. Non ultimate equipment? Not good enough, at least in my hands. My "performance" with it was simply ridiculous. Talking average cp values here.

 

I also remembered there was a time when I liked the tier 10 Me 262 HG III. It could cover the map quite quickly. Besides it's tier 10 faster and stronger than previous models. This should be the choice. And I started to play on Friday. And it was like one good game with around 400-500 cp and 5 bad ones. I changed some equipment on it, reassembled it, spent some tens of tokens and most of my mechanical parts trying to find a combination that works better. And it sucked. A lot. Well, in fact, I sucked with it. Anyway, I dropped back to tier 8, then 7, then 6. It got even worse. And for 2 days I struggled to make it work. I knew that in theory you could do over 800 points with it. Who can hit anything with those guns?

It was on Sunday when it finally struck me. Game after game I played better, but results got worse because most kills were outside the sectors, though I was sure they were inside. My main struggle for 3 days was to achieve 10 decent results to be satisfied with. Looking at other players' results made me lose confidence that I can do it. We have to wait now and see the results. 

 

I have been focused hard, rammed (by everybody bots, humans enemies and friendlies), called a rammer, ape and moron, shot down, chased through all the map and around it, got hit by bugs with invisible planes, invisible ground targets markers teleporting planes and so on. I have been frustrated, discouraged but I did my best to keep on going. Because I knew I could do better. And almost did a few times. But finally after 3 days I remembered or (re)learned how to play that plane. Of course during battle you get carried away and (re)forget everything. 

 

All I wanted was the Goblin and the other goodies. After all this work, if I will eventually get it, even if it could prove hard or impossible at this point,I can't really tell if it will be worth it. The time/effort/rewards balance is starting to crack.

My only satisfaction so far in this stage is that I managed to have a few good fights. I just hope they will be enough.






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