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Matchmaking gone bezerk.


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prawiejakzywiec666 #181 Posted 02 October 2020 - 08:15 AM

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I've written it several times. You cannot win all the time. You loose if you fly with teammates that fly to mid sector and get killed there over and over again, your team is not taking and securing strategic sectors (factories, CC or military bases) or your teammates are shooting aircrafts instead of ground targets with GAA. Happens all the time.

Bots do get crazy from time to time - true but I think it affects everybody. 


Edited by prawiejakzywiec666, 02 October 2020 - 08:16 AM.

chikken


RoyalFlyingCorps #182 Posted 02 October 2020 - 09:37 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 01 October 2020 - 08:51 AM, said:

How do I know? Well I've played probably over 50k battles in WoT across several accounts. If one account is played a lot, it gets shhh MM and if I decided to play an account I had not played for a long time, it gets easy MM, this is one of the games preferential MM I identified very early tbh. As for the loss streaks and winning steaks. Sure, these streaks will naturally happen just through law of averages, play enough battles and these things manifest but the difference we need to identify is with the RNG within those streaks. If generally RNG is neither one way or the other, then loss and winning streaks are just how it goes sometimes BUT, if it's clear that not only are you getting the good or bad teams for consecutive battles but also very generous or evil RNG, then the whole "bad or good luck" and coincidence goes out the window. 

 

Show us your statistical analysis of those games.  Without that, your impression is nothing more than a subjective opinion, the usual "I can't believe it's just rotten luck/my rubbish play so it must be rigging" fantasy.


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 02 October 2020 - 09:39 AM.


TungstenHitman #183 Posted 02 October 2020 - 11:56 AM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 02 October 2020 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

Show us your statistical analysis of those games.  Without that, your impression is nothing more than a subjective opinion, the usual "I can't believe it's just rotten luck/my rubbish play so it must be rigging" fantasy.

 

But it's just my opinion obviously. Equally I could send your above words right back at you and ask you to prove me wrong, and you don't have "statistical analysis" of those your games either so can't, you would be just basing it on your findings during battles same as me. I suppose the difference between my opinion and some 40% winrate tinfoil hat Bob is I'm actually a decent player with a very positive win rate and a hefty battle count across several accounts, good enough and experienced enough to tell the difference. Still, just and opinion, nothing more.

 

Obviously if someone obsessed or mad enough actually DID go away and get some sophisticated software to monitor and analyze hundreds and thousands of battles across the servers and indeed came back with hard evidence that there's an "easy mode" and "hard mode" algorithm that players trigger through certain circumstances then WG would probably be in a lot of trouble lol, and then again maybe nothing is ever discovered and all is above board, so... it's all just speculation and opinion for either argument until then, neither side of the coin can prove jack shhhhhh, so it's just all a load of bs comments tbh lol.... but interesting bs none the less. 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 02 October 2020 - 11:56 AM.


RoyalFlyingCorps #184 Posted 02 October 2020 - 01:17 PM

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Actually, I have thousands upon thousands of games that I have analysed, but I'm not the one asserting that there's rigging in the game.  You are; but as you now admit, it's just an opinion, one for which I happen to know there is no evidence.

 

You don't need sophisticated software.  All you need are data capture workbooks and SQL Server Express, which, since my job is in IT and partially concerned with the production of BI (business information), I have and use regularly, both in the office and at home.  It does not require "obsession"  nor does one have to be "mad enough", it's sufficient to have the necessary skills and a degree of curiosity.  Both of those I have; or rather had in the case of the latter, since I don't think there's anything to prove regarding WoWP using statistical analyses any longer.

 

If you hadn't apprehended that I have certain IT skills from the fact I pulled all that data concerning tier 6 fighters out of the API for you, perhaps you may realise it now. :)


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 02 October 2020 - 01:19 PM.


TungstenHitman #185 Posted 02 October 2020 - 02:37 PM

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No I would never assume or hold someone to being X Y or Z without inside knowledge of that person so wouldn't assume you work in IT nor a specific sector of that which would be in any way applicable to the topic matter. Those stats on the T6 fighters are there online in the compare section of WoWP EU so I would have thought nothing more than that's where you ascertained such information in the other thread. 

 

Perhaps if a person, such as yourself for example, as you outlined and claim in the above comment(which is indeed very VERY rare minority of players I would guess) happens to both work in IT and also by chance just happens to have software applicable to the subject matter(which remains to be seen without you actually backing it up your claims with such stats on the matter in this thread btw "I have thousands and thousands of games that I have analyzed) then for all others concerned it would be somewhat of an obsession to actually go away, buy very specific software to permanently monitor every shot taken by every single aircraft across hundreds of thousands, millions of battles potentially, and detect out of normal anomalies just for one or two games you happen play... very much obsessive behavior tbh, bordering on madness. Are you suggesting such software is not sophisticated, something most players would have and something you have? You must have it if you made such claims above right? 

 

This isn't even a counter argument. You just made a claim that you have software good enough to properly analyze all the ins and outs of these battles enough to know for a fact that there is no "rigging" because you tested it across thousands of your own battles. Well I, and others no doubt, would be very interested to see this data. :)



GonerNL #186 Posted 02 October 2020 - 09:05 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 02 October 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:

 All you need are data capture workbooks and SQL Server Express, which, since my job is in IT and partially concerned with the production of BI (business information), 

 

:amazed:

I've been in IT for 45 years but never let it interfere with my (computer) gaming ... besides, I don't need that to see that this game just sux at trying to deliver balanced battles.

It's a lottery ... I fail to see how anyone can provide statistics about a game where 24 bots and humans are tossed randomly together in 2 teams" without taking in account either the quality of the pilots (players with WR 80% vs players with 40%) or planes (specialist, light, heavy, GA, bomber).

 


Edited by GonerNL, 02 October 2020 - 09:17 PM.


BravelyRanAway #187 Posted 02 October 2020 - 09:14 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 02 October 2020 - 09:05 PM, said:

 

It's a lottery ...

For the average player....yes it is.:trollface:


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GonerNL #188 Posted 02 October 2020 - 09:21 PM

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And guess what the majority of us is ? 

 



BravelyRanAway #189 Posted 02 October 2020 - 09:41 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 02 October 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

And guess what the majority of us is ? 

 

Games in WoT and WoWS's are quite similar. Depending on a players skill, there is a certain band of games they can win. The higher the skill the wider the band of games that player can influence towards a win. The lower the skill the narrower the band of games that player can influence towards a win.

A 50% player is flotsam in the MM, carried by the tides of the team selection.


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RoyalFlyingCorps #190 Posted 02 October 2020 - 10:48 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 02 October 2020 - 09:05 PM, said:

I've been in IT for 45 years but never let it interfere with my (computer) gaming ... besides, I don't need that to see that this game just sux at trying to deliver balanced battles.

 

Oh, there's nothing in the statistics that says the battles are well-balanced all the time.  It's quite possible to get a long run of unevenly matched battles.  It's just that this has nothing to do with rigging and everything to do with a poor match making algorithm.  There's no discernible trend that shows somebody who performs well in battles for a while will then be subjected to match making that is intentionally stacked against him or her. 


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 02 October 2020 - 10:50 PM.


zen_monk_ #191 Posted 03 October 2020 - 08:14 AM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 02 October 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

There's no discernible trend that shows somebody who performs well in battles for a while will then be subjected to match making that is intentionally stacked against him or her. 

 

Exactly.

Otherwise the main complainers here would permanently be subjected to fantastically good matchmaking. :)


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zen_monk_ #192 Posted 04 October 2020 - 06:04 PM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 04 October 2020 - 05:31 PM, said:

...all поле́зныйе идиоты claim that it's only written like that, apparently for lolz.

 

Please stop calling other forum participants idiots.


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BravelyRanAway #193 Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:04 PM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 04 October 2020 - 06:04 PM, said:

 

Please stop calling other forum participants idiots.

In the patent, there are six different ways in which the MM can produce teams. Only one can be used at anyone time as they cannot all be used at the one time. Most are based on battle levels and weight assigned to each vehicle. There is also mentioned(aside from what jakub mentioned alluding to players having harder or easier games based on their previous play) where the tanks/planes/ships in use on the servers could have their overall WR's monitored and their battle levels adjusted up or down....which has noting to do with player skill, just vehicle performance. If the one that jakub alludes was in force then maintaining a high WR would not be possible....or even a low one. Some people have tendency to focus on only one aspect of the patent that paints them as a victim.


Edited by BravelyRanAway, 05 October 2020 - 08:51 AM.

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RoyalFlyingCorps #194 Posted 05 October 2020 - 06:38 AM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 04 October 2020 - 04:31 PM, said:

Probably only because WoWP is carefully made to make such analysis much harder than WoT, so with so low number of players, nobody cares to track win/lose streaks.

 

Some time ago I cared, and there was pretty clear trend of increased number of loses after some more winning periods.

And of curse there is https://patents.goog...atent/US8425330, about which all поле́зныйе идиоты claim that it's only written like that, apparently for lolz.

 

Well, if it exists but the effect is not detectable, that still means there isn't an effect.  Of course the weak-minded will resort to wailing accusations of "rigging" or "cheating".  As an aside, I rather think Lenin, whose contempt for others you seem to share unattractively, would have regarded you as one of those "useful idiots".


Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 05 October 2020 - 06:41 AM.


Ziptop #195 Posted 06 October 2020 - 06:48 AM

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To summarize then I think it goes like this....

 

"The matchmaking absolutely does just suck" 

 

Which is a shame because the game otherwise has something to offer in it's fast paced "sim-cade" action. 

 

It's just that if you get served up unwinnable battle after unwinnable battle it just sucks any potential for joy or reward from the experience.



TungstenHitman #196 Posted 06 October 2020 - 08:29 AM

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View PostZiptop, on 06 October 2020 - 06:48 AM, said:

 

It's just that if you get served up unwinnable battle after unwinnable battle it just sucks any potential for joy or reward from the experience.

 

This. 

 

It's your classic WG approach sadly. I think WG believe this toxic "Win or go F yourself" approach is a winning formula and is responsible for any success their game offerings have had so they're probably just going to stick with it as not to "upset the applecart" even though if their game views on Twitch is anything to go by, is wayyyyyyyyyy down the pecking order so not much fear of that ever happening I dare say.

 

In WoWP the playerbase is small so it's certainly worth "risking" a few minor changes for the sake of game health, growth and player satisfaction. To create that feeling of "Let's play another battle" and not the "F this bs game I'm off!" feeling. I strongly believe that such a minor change, just to reward players accordingly for their personal effort would almost instantly transform this game, which is a really nice game, into a far more enjoyable experience.

 

Sure, winning should always be the goal of each battle and come with some sort of little bonus(maybe just those that actually played well!) but sadly in this game just about everything hinges on the win. Most missions are "win the battle" most weekend specials such as xp or crew xp etc "win the battle", general xp gains and salvage "win the battle". It really is a case of win or get nothing which is just total bs obviously, especially since MM pretty much dictates which way the result is most likely going to go before a single shots been fired and it just translates into a feeling of a total waste of time since a loss rewards practically nothing.

 

The "win or nothing" reward system almost suggests that the result is totally in each players hands on an individual level like some sort of solo player game and that if they just play good enough they will win which is bs obviously. One player can't cover every sector or win every engagement against constantly superior numbers all battle long. So dropping in 10-20k+ PP for several losing battles in a row, maybe an hour invested or more, ya it very quickly gets old and very F'ing annoying to say the least since again, it's all just a total waste of time without a win since we get F all for losses by comparison.

 

I'm sure for some players, maybe a lot, this flawed reward system holds back any notion of playing or grinding any other aircraft other than the most OP and strongest ones they already have in their collection since they know that playing only the aircraft with the highest possible % chance of winning makes the most sense in this current reward system and that's a shame and also gets boring too, to play just the same aircraft over and over but in this game it makes sense to do so sadly, such is the reward system based purely on winning. 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 07 October 2020 - 11:17 AM.


RoyalFlyingCorps #197 Posted 08 October 2020 - 07:21 AM

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There are many improvements that could be made and none will be unless and until Kislyi decides to have a third try at making a planes game.  I think that's unlikely.  So, if the match making as it is leads you to throw your keyboard at the wall in frustration then, unfortunately, probably it's time to find other games. 

TungstenHitman #198 Posted 08 October 2020 - 09:15 AM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 08 October 2020 - 07:21 AM, said:

There are many improvements that could be made and none will be unless and until Kislyi decides to have a third try at making a planes game.  I think that's unlikely.  So, if the match making as it is leads you to throw your keyboard at the wall in frustration then, unfortunately, probably it's time to find other games. 

 

And based on the small playerbase I suspect that leaving to find other games is what most players do and have done. Also, don't assume that if VK gave this game attention that it improves MM etc, far from it if WoT and WoWS newer inclusions are anything to go by which has just turned into cesspits of cash grabbing game breaking gimmicks, over powered and broken vehicles and gambling boxes lol.

 

Sometimes it's better the devil you know and those of you who are hardcore fans of WoWP should do well to remember that because I have no doubt that if WG turned it's attentions back to this game once more, it would turn what's actually one of their more balanced offerings into a complete shhh pit like the other two.

 

Besides, VK is totally delusional if he genuinely thinks the main reason WoWP is not popular is because it's "too fast paced and mentally demanding" for the likes of tired gamers who get home after work lol. WoT is probably even more fast paced and mentally demanding yet it's more popular and all of them are significantly slower paced and less mentally demanding compared to other combat games available, other online combat games which themselves are massively more popular with ginormous player counts than any of WG's offerings so that knocks VK's laughable theory on the head. But the reality is, even though they can certainly hold back these games from becoming as popular as they could be through an unfair reward system and bs MM, they can still get away with it because ultimately there's always going to be just about enough players to sustain them and behind all the bs it's fundamentally a solid combat game if a player likes to play tanks or ships or airplanes, and I suspect there's always gonna be. It's just so typical WG that they take what's probably 95% a fundamentally solid game that's fun to play and have to add that 5% bs toxic element and sadly that 5% is SO toxic at times that it totally shhhh on the 95% good and ruins the gaming experience... and I just think that's a pity for all the good things WG have done with these games.


Edited by TungstenHitman, 08 October 2020 - 10:20 AM.


BravelyRanAway #199 Posted 08 October 2020 - 02:15 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 08 October 2020 - 09:15 AM, said:

 

And based on the small playerbase I suspect that leaving to find other games is what most players do and have done. 

The WoWP game you are playing now is not the same WoWP game that players left.


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jakub_czyli_ja #200 Posted 08 October 2020 - 09:32 PM

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View PostBravelyRanAway, on 08 October 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:

The WoWP game you are playing now is not the same WoWP game that players left.

It depends how you'll define 'not the same'.

If you take version 2.0, there were weeks with 10k unique weekly players with 20 or more battles. For last few months there are barely 4k such players. 6k went somewhere.

Even if you consider latest minor version, 2.1, it's about 500 player less since December 2019.

 

Assuming that there are still new players that manage to stay, leaving is eben bigger.

 

OTOH - claim that WoT is probably more fast paced is a joke.

Kislyi is right that not all people may enjoy playing WoWP, because the speed and 3d environment, contrary to more 2d environment of WoT.

But it isn't the reason of WoWP' fail. It sounds more like desperate excuses of people, who were saving their jobs, trying to explain WoWP' fail to Kislyi.

Quite convenient for everybody involved, so apparently it became the official version of reasons of WoWP failure.

 






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