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airfield with aircraft change

mechanics suggestion

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apartclassic #1 Posted 17 February 2020 - 12:14 AM

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There's a mechanics in the game that most people are aware of (though still not everyone), some even 'abuse' it for greater success. I'm talking about the possibility of changing your plane over airfields during battle (for those who don't know yet - the airbase, with a repair workshop and wrench icon, as opposed to forward airfield or something, that only serves as a respawn point). In general it's fine and dandy, but I'd like to propose one slight improvement, relating to MM. As it is now, we can only swap planes from the tier we started the battle in. My suggestion is to enable the switch for the tiers present in the battle. Let's say we start a battle, realise we're in bottom tier plane, so we make use of the airfield (if present) and give ourselves a fighting chance by grabbing the top tier plane. Is that feasible, WG?

 

I can see only one issue with such a change, that is the daily missions on different periods. We start the battle in one period, accumulate some progress, then switch planes and hop into higher period, again accumulating progress there. We know switching planes is sort of bugged and exploitable when it comes to missions (sometimes counting double results), but on the other hand we know the game does track progress on each plane. Would such a situation - with changing periods during battle - really present any problems?

 

I'm thinking it would level the field sometimes (especially when MM does its best and matches higher tiers in one team versus lower tiers in the other team, as we know happens all too often). As such airfields are not present on every map, a question of possible exploiting is also of minimal weight in my opinion (plus the doubling of results for missions is aparently not treated as exploit by WG, since it's still present in the game despite being reported many times over the years).

 

Opinions? Thoughts? Official view on the matter perhaps?

 

re 'abusing': I did have a battle where I got both Lambert medal (for MRF) and Akamatsu medal (for LF) - meaning there was an Ace there - thanks to plane swap; I was really happy with that feat


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zen_monk_ #2 Posted 17 February 2020 - 11:34 AM

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Good idea, but you know as well as I do what are the chances...

 

Speaking of good ideas with little to no chances:

- split the damn Daily Token Missions, low tiers for 1 token, mid tiers for 4 and high for 10

- or at least scale them appropriately for the tier capabilities


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RoyalFlyingCorps #3 Posted 17 February 2020 - 11:45 AM

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If the MM were good, I’d say “no” since being able to select a higher tier aircraft would give a team a slight unfair advantage.  Since the MM is not good, why not? - but it will never happen.

apartclassic #4 Posted 17 February 2020 - 12:30 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 17 February 2020 - 11:45 AM, said:

If the MM were good, I’d say “no” since being able to select a higher tier aircraft would give a team a slight unfair advantage.  Since the MM is not good, why not? - but it will never happen.


If you are the lower tier, it means there's a human on higher tier in the red team. This would be a 'slight unfair advantage', and you would be taking a plane of the same tier as the human/humans on the other side. Uneven matching (when one side gets lower tiered humans) is pretty common right now, especially when you have 2v2 battles (also when one side has a flight - the game mismatches tiers in that case awfully often; not to mention cases of 'anchoring' by flights, where the flight definitely gets an advantage I would tend to call 'unfair').


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0berhessen #5 Posted 17 February 2020 - 01:09 PM

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Not sure if i like that idea, as RFC mentioned: it really depends on the matchmaking.

And remember, we still have this Stone/Sciccors/Paper System in game, which is kind of softened with the possibilty to chance a plane

even on the same Tier, from Heavy to Fighter or GA to Fighter...

 

As well i doubt they will manage to implent that into the game without any new bugs.

 

So i rather say: Shhhh dont touch it


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RoyalFlyingCorps #6 Posted 17 February 2020 - 01:38 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 17 February 2020 - 12:30 PM, said:


If you are the lower tier, it means there's a human on higher tier in the red team. This would be a 'slight unfair advantage', and you would be taking a plane of the same tier as the human/humans on the other side. Uneven matching (when one side gets lower tiered humans) is pretty common right now, especially when you have 2v2 battles (also when one side has a flight - the game mismatches tiers in that case awfully often; not to mention cases of 'anchoring' by flights, where the flight definitely gets an advantage I would tend to call 'unfair').


I’d have to check the exact system, but I believe the MM works so that the aggregate of the tiers of the aircraft in each team is separated by only a small amount (I think it’s a difference of one at maximum).  If your team happens to have this slim advantage and you then change from a low tier to a high tier plane you will break this rule.  Theoretically that conveys your team an advantage the MM seeks to prevent.  Practically, I doubt the difference would be discernible in the current state of the game.

The MM does not balance humans against humans, as we all know from observing high tier games ruined by human-piloted EF-131s and Su-10s being matched against human players in aircraft with no hope of countering them.  However, just because the MM is bad in this game that’s no reason to introduce something else that makes it worse, no matter how slightly.



apartclassic #7 Posted 17 February 2020 - 10:11 PM

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View PostRoyalFlyingCorps, on 17 February 2020 - 01:38 PM, said:


I’d have to check the exact system, but I believe the MM works so that the aggregate of the tiers of the aircraft in each team is separated by only a small amount (I think it’s a difference of one at maximum).  If your team happens to have this slim advantage and you then change from a low tier to a high tier plane you will break this rule.  Theoretically that conveys your team an advantage the MM seeks to prevent.  Practically, I doubt the difference would be discernible in the current state of the game.

The MM does not balance humans against humans, as we all know from observing high tier games ruined by human-piloted EF-131s and Su-10s being matched against human players in aircraft with no hope of countering them.  However, just because the MM is bad in this game that’s no reason to introduce something else that makes it worse, no matter how slightly.


WIth all due respect, you still don't get it. Let me break this down:

- MM allows for +/- 1 tier difference in matchmaking

- usually it chooses humans of the same tiers, fills the rest of slots with bots, battle starts

- very often MM does the thing when one side has human/humans on the higher tier, while the other side has human/humans on the lower tier (and in case of flights, it's very possible to have a human flight on higher tier, while the opposing team has humans flying lower tier)

The above is the situation I'd like adressed. The humans on higher tier would obviously NOT be able to swap to a higher tier plane (because it would break the +/- 1 tier rule of MM; however they COULD technically swap to a lower tier plane , because it still conforms with MM rules). The humans on lower tier on the other hand could get the chance of uptiering their planes, to match the humans on the other side.

The very literal example would be a battle where MM matches a t6 human LF and a t6 human bomber on red team, with a t5 human LF and a t5 human bomber on blue team (and you know such tier distribution is common). The map has airfield, and in my suggested change both sides get access to t5 AND t6 planes for a swap (in the current mechanics red team can only swap for another t6, while blue team can only swap for another t5). I'm looking for a way to balance the initial disadvantage for one side, introduced by MM.

 

Is this clear now? I'm not touching MM at all, I take it as it is. I'm merely suggesting a change to airfield mechanics, with accordance to MM as-is.


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Spartan_93 #8 Posted 18 February 2020 - 11:40 AM

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But if I choose a higher tier aircraft, the average tier of my team is higher that the average tier of the enemy

Your suggestion would require, that a bot switch to a lower tier aircraft, so that the average tier for both teams would stay the same.

 

Edit: And your idea is really stupid, sorry, but if the team with the higher tier human players cap the airfield (what is most likely because they have stronger planes), then their low tier team mates could switch to a higher tier, too. At the same time the "lower human tier" team will stay at low tiers with less chances to recap the airfield. The most likely thing that will happen is, that the team that already have the "human tier advantage" will get an even greater advantage. => More unbalanced battles.


Edited by Spartan_93, 18 February 2020 - 11:45 AM.


paradigmshift #9 Posted 18 February 2020 - 12:39 PM

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Are we assuming that all "human" players are geniuses? I see most games where the imbalance is in the bots V human, not human v human. Useless bots will make life difficult at best. Also some human pilots are only there for the "missions" and if that does not include an incentive for winning then they will not play like a team.

Realistically, all human players should be from the same tier or you create imbalance, especially when high tiers are in powerful HF/MR/LF and you are in low tier GAA/Bomber. 

Imbalance is no good for either team if it results in 800-200 results, over in 5 minutes. 

 

Since I seem to be in the low tier many more times than the high tier (objective observation) I think the option to go higher would be nice to have, assuming you also have all aircraft options available. Down downside is we all end up in OP Spitfire or similar.

 

 


Edited by paradigmshift, 18 February 2020 - 03:13 PM.


RoyalFlyingCorps #10 Posted 18 February 2020 - 03:54 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 17 February 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

WIth all due respect, you still don't get it. Let me break this down:

 

Is this clear now? I'm not touching MM at all, I take it as it is. I'm merely suggesting a change to airfield mechanics, with accordance to MM as-is.

 

I see you didn’t understand or didn’t read what I wrote.  Never mind.  Even though your proposal could lead to situations where the rules of the match maker were broken, probably in practical terms it would not make any perceptible difference.  That said, it’s never going to happen anyway.  The amount of work required to amend match making is almost certainly beyond the reduced WoWP team’s resources.



Ziptop #11 Posted 28 February 2020 - 09:06 AM

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Yes, why not? After all you can enter a battle in a regular aircraft and then change to a specialised one within the existing mechanic. The advantage of specialized aircraft often feels greater than the difference in tiers anyway.





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