11 replies to this topic

[ThinderChief]

Taken a few seconds from each other those two pics illustrates this topic.

 

No1, aircraft level flight, control surfacers stable (they would be with speed) and flaps up.

 

No2, same flight level and speed, control surfaces flapping all over the place, flaps down without any input.

 

So what gives, here? I tried to solve the issue but was directed to the mouse controls by Support, and I figured that there is NO option to disable auto-flap under joystick controls. So as early as the game starts, the flaps go down, but also control surfaces (rudder, elevon, ailerons) are all over the place without any input.

 

My question to developers: It is already bad enough to see a discrepancy in the number of maneuvring options we have from mouse to stick (I'm thinking the "snap to target" trick or any other way to make an aircraft pull instantaneous turn rates you won't be able to reach with a stick), but it appears that on some airplanes, the flaps causes a loss of airspeed which limits maneuverability (available energy) without any way for us to correct it by disabling autoflaps.

 

Are you devs considering correcting those little glitches? Surely it doesn't look as hard as that to freeze control surfaces unless players apply input to move them and give the same support for joystick players than for mouse players, it might not look that way, but I can guaranty you that it makes a difference when you push the envelope to the limit, chasing or trying to escape a target.

 

I saw guys pulling maneuvers out of this world while I was chasing them with the same aircraft (P-80), I can't even contemplate what it would take me to achieve those with a stick so when I asked, my impression was confirmed, the other player was using a mouse.

 

So, we all know this is supposed to be "an arcade" game, but I don't think it's a reason to leave those issues behind and untouched update after update, after all, regardless of mouse or stick, we pay premiums, so we should expect equal treatments. Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Edited by ThinderChief, 24 March 2020 - 08:44 AM.

[Aimless]

I've been around planes and also tanks for pretty much all the time, and I've learned something: Don't challenge WG! If any problems will be solved at all, the results won't be the way you'd appreciate.

[apartclassic]

99% of what is described here as 'bug' or 'discrepancy' is just a cosmetic. The control surfaces will flap, the rotor blades will vary speed, regardless of your controller setup. It's just a visual effect, does NOT translate into plane's behaviour.

 

What you MIGHT be affected by on the other hand is possibly slower response time on the stick (but there are joystick drivers and apps that let one adjust sensitivity etc, plus I suppose you at least have those settings within WoWP as well). Also, without the option to turn auto-flaps off, every maneuver you do with a stick will result in opening the flaps and/or airbrake, and bleeding of energy - and this could be the only 'real' disadvantage joystick users have. On the other hand I have witnessed in battle and watched YT clips/stream of people I know use joysticks (Goner is one, and unlamented eekeeboo comes to mind too), and I've seen what they get in compensation. In general terms using the stick gives a lot more control over the plane, and looks more realistic, when set up right.

 

What you can and possibly should ask for is the flaps toggle introduced; as I said everything else is either pure gfx intended to make it look 'better', or adjustable in or outside the game.

Edited by apartclassic, 24 March 2020 - 06:04 PM.

[ThinderChief]

apartclassic, on 24 March 2020 - 06:03 PM, sai

What you MIGHT be affected by on the other hand is possibly slower response time on the stick (but there are joystick drivers and apps that let one adjust sensitivity etc, plus I suppose you at least have those settings within WoWP as well). Also, without the option to turn auto-flaps off, every maneuver you do with a stick will result in opening the flaps and/or airbrake, and bleeding of energy - and this could be the only 'real' disadvantage joystick users have. On the other hand I have witnessed in battle and watched YT clips/stream of people I know use joysticks (Goner is one, and unlamented eekeeboo comes to mind too), and I've seen what they get in compensation. In general terms using the stick gives a lot more control over the plane, and looks more realistic, when set up right.

 

What you can and possibly should ask for is the flaps toggle introduced; as I said everything else is either pure gfx intended to make it look 'better', or adjustable in or outside the game.

 

That's what I thought. For the level of control stick vs mouse, we reached the same conclusion, the stick demands more movement and if you try to increase its sensitivity, it becomes fast uncontrollable.

 

In many case I would avoid using flaps because my airspeed is high enough to do a max-perf turn without them, so they do bleed speed, even in level flight.

 

So the toggle for autoflaps is a must and should be introduce as an option for joystick users.

 

Thanks for your reply.

Edited by ThinderChief, 24 March 2020 - 10:13 PM.

[GonerNL]

apartclassic, on 24 March 2020 - 07:03 PM, said:

and this could be the only 'real' disadvantage joystick users have.

 

IMHO the biggest disadvantage we have is the lack of the forward/up view that mouse players have. You can follow your target with the mouse, we only get a view straight ahead, which is silly. You can not even set it with the hat switch.

[Ziptop]

I second both - 

Flight controls - ability to toggle off automatic inputs 

 

Combat view. Up and ahead as a mappable camera view. 

(Snap to target doesn't work as well as you might think it would and also the 3rd person perspective model of your own aircraft can actually obscure your view.) 

 

A little wish of my own...

Multi monitor and/or VR support.

 

I'll finish up by actually mentioning that the joystick control axis sensitivity setup in WoWp is actually very nicely done. If they've given that much thought to this element the flaps auto toggle must surely just be an oversight.

 

 

[ThinderChief]

Ziptop, on 25 March 2020 - 10:59 AM, said:

I second both - 

Flight controls - ability to toggle off automatic inputs 

 

Combat view. Up and ahead as a mappable camera view. 

(Snap to target doesn't work as well as you might think it would and also the 3rd person perspective model of your own aircraft can actually obscure your view.) 

 

A little wish of my own...

Multi monitor and/or VR support.

 

I'll finish up by actually mentioning that the joystick control axis sensitivity setup in WoWp is actually very nicely done. If they've given that much thought to this element the flaps auto toggle must surely just be an oversight.

 

 

Totally agree, I used the joystick control axis in this game and it helps, but it is impossible to emulate the movement of a mouse with a stick, giving it an advantage, I don't mind too much, I anticipate a lot, the only drawback is that my Saitek Cybord is falling apart because of the strain I put on it.

 

We need a better level of overall control and options support for joystick, I nearly never use the zoom, only in the occasion when the target is barely visible or near max range so I have to be more precise.

 

 

[Ziptop]

ThinderChief, on 25 March 2020 - 11:56 PM, said:

Totally agree, I used the joystick control axis in this game and it helps, but it is impossible to emulate the movement of a mouse with a stick, giving it an advantage, I don't mind too much, I anticipate a lot, the only drawback is that my Saitek Cybord is falling apart because of the strain I put on it.

 

We need a better level of overall control and options support for joystick, I nearly never use the zoom, only in the occasion when the target is barely visible or near max range so I have to be more precise.

 

 

Saitek Cyborg was a great stick, I've still got one somewhere with a broken trigger (it snapped right off!)

If you need an ambidextrous stick the Thrustmaster T16000 is a good strick. It's rudder axis sensor can get a bit twitchy but there are plenty of tips online for stripdown and repair/modification. I gave both of mine a full strip down service a few months ago and they have been very nice since that. 

If you aren't a lefty then there are even more options and many are better than the Thrustmaster's I have.

[ThinderChief]

Ziptop, on 28 March 2020 - 02:15 AM, said:

Saitek Cyborg was a great stick, I've still got one somewhere with a broken trigger (it snapped right off!)

If you need an ambidextrous stick the Thrustmaster T16000 is a good strick. It's rudder axis sensor can get a bit twitchy but there are plenty of tips online for stripdown and repair/modification. I gave both of mine a full strip down service a few months ago and they have been very nice since that. 

If you aren't a lefty then there are even more options and many are better than the Thrustmaster's I have.

 

Thanks for the tip, in fact, I use my Saitek simply because there is no support at all for my Thrustmaster Hotas X, the Throttle works only in the yaw axis, unusable, so far I'm happy with the Saitek but It is always obvious to me that a good mouse player will always have some advantages, including auto flap drag, I can tell at the way their A-C flies.

 

If I can deal with the extra efforts and movements demanded by the sticks, support for an auto flap toggle is urgent, players should lobby WoWP and support to get it fixed ASAP, it's a drag, literally, I'm not too often handicapped by the stick as I play heavies or less maneuverable Aircraft than the turn and burn type often enough, like the Ki-102.

 

In fact, I'm after the Lockheed F-94D Starfire, only one engine to research on the F2G, later I might look for another stick/throttle combo...

 

 

[Ziptop]

Have you tried Joystick Gremlin or similar to remap the axis?

[ThinderChief]

Ziptop, on 05 April 2020 - 11:19 AM, said:

Have you tried Joystick Gremlin or similar to remap the axis?

No, normally there should be no need for it, but both those sticks are old, so I soldier-on with the Saitek and am looking at the Thrustmaster T.16000M for the mid-term future, I might give it a go, thanks for the tip.

 

I used to play a lot of flight sim not so long ago and it is the first time I have such issues, to be honest, I did not expect that from W.G, the only reason I do not have a proper combo is deciding to invest in one, Thrustmaster T.16000M can be found second hand or better, new at a lower cost, it doesn't solve the auto flap toggle problem tough.

[GonerNL]

I can also recommend the T16000m FCS (just stick, not HOTAS).

Got one after my third Extreme 3D Pro gave up the ghost ... buttons on stick stopped working this time, before that loss of axis control. 

So far it looks and feels tougher than the Logitech.