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Optimum Bombing Height Soviet Bombers


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dapprman #1 Posted 28 March 2020 - 04:35 PM

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This is primarily over the TU-10, which I now fly, but I'm also interested if it changes for the TU-12 and SU-10.

 

My reason for the post is partly also to height to those new to bombers or Soviet bombers that each nation has it's own ideal bomb release height.  For Germans it appears to be mid in the white zone, with US bombers I actually found them to be more accurate when in the yellow zone, however for the Pe-2 through to the TU-2 it was between ~850 and 1050 meters.

 

With the TU-10 I'm now finding that my bombs are no longer landing true, if anything they are going slightly long or even to one side (when flying straight).  Anyone found they have needed to fly lower to improve/regain bombing accuracy ?  Note the only upgrades on this plane so far are defensive turrets.  I've also noticed that, unlike with the previous 3 planes, when you turn while looking through the bomb site you do seem to gain some altitude.



TotalEgal #2 Posted 30 March 2020 - 03:03 PM

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The only Russian bomber I can fly at 2000m without much accuracy loss is the AR-2. But this also has improved 5% bombing accuracy.

All higher bombers have large dropping area, often much larger than the target you want to destroy.

My experience is, that flying these bombers below 1000m is best to be effective. Also the TU-12 and SU-10.

I played some battles where players used SU-10 at 3km. Still they made >80k dmg, but just destroyed 3-5 ground targets. 



jakub_czyli_ja #3 Posted 30 March 2020 - 08:02 PM

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As for me, bomber operational altitude is altitude that gives the best survival chances - most bombers are simply HP piniatas and free frags.

Tu-10 is first of Soviet bombers starting from Pe-2 that can quite safely operate at a level that it can effectively deliver bombs on target - 1-1.5 km. I've seen some flying much lower, but I'm simply to lazy for trial and error how to bomb from 500 meters or so.

It's faster, so all I needed was to drop bombs a bit earlier than even reticle shows - I guess lag compensation and stuff.



KlausHetti #4 Posted 31 March 2020 - 05:52 AM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 30 March 2020 - 09:02 PM, said:

As for me, bomber operational altitude is altitude that gives the best survival chances - most bombers are simply HP piniatas and free frags.

Tu-10 is first of Soviet bombers starting from Pe-2 that can quite safely operate at a level that it can effectively deliver bombs on target - 1-1.5 km. I've seen some flying much lower, but I'm simply to lazy for trial and error how to bomb from 500 meters or so.

It's faster, so all I needed was to drop bombs a bit earlier than even reticle shows - I guess lag compensation and stuff.

 

This answer is useless under this topic because

- Nobody cares if YOU think that Bombers are HP pinatas and free frags

- 1 to 1,5 km altitude? you have seen lower flying bombers? Useless answer because YOU are too lazy for testing! What is your answer then? Because there was a question.
- A bit earlier because of speed ... of lag compensation and stuff? How do YOU know? Did you test that? oh, no, YOU are too lazy for that.

 

If you are too lazy to find out what can be better then please do not answer to questions from people asking for better performance.


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jakub_czyli_ja #5 Posted 31 March 2020 - 06:21 AM

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View PostKlausHetti, on 31 March 2020 - 05:52 AM, said:

This answer is useless under this topic because

- Nobody cares if YOU think that Bombers are HP pinatas and free frags

Well, your answer is such as well.

It seems that on the contrary, you may think that a lot of people cares of your answer, because you have (or at least you think you have) a reason to bash me. Unfortunately with totally no valuable input in this topic, as you didn't fly said bomber.

Oh mighty you, I bet this is one of the best days ever for you because of that.

Block Quote

 - 1 to 1,5 km altitude? you have seen lower flying bombers? Useless answer because YOU are too lazy for testing! What is your answer then? Because there was a question.

I've seen such and I've been flying like that myself. Contrary to you.

And I'm honestly admitting, that there may be a more effective way of bombing than mine, from lower altitude. Only I didn't check it, because I'm too lazy.

I gave the reason of choosing such altitude - a function of survivability and bombing performance.

And I described what is the problem of survivability for Soviet bombers on tiers V-VII - it's non existent. Tier VIII is the first, which can fly at such altitude and survive longer.

 

So especially for you, with obvious reading and understanding issues:

Spoiler
 

 

 

Block Quote

 - A bit earlier because of speed ... of lag compensation and stuff? How do YOU know? Did you test that? oh, no, YOU are too lazy for that.

And this is what I've checked, but you can't know that, as you've never play Tu-10, so your input is much less useful than mine.

So continuing short words answer for you:

Spoiler
 

And a pro tip for you:

Spoiler
 

 

Block Quote

If you are too lazy to find out what can be better then please do not answer to questions from people asking for better performance.

I've found my local optimum - exp per battle vs training time burnt on free frags, and this is what I wrote.

If he wishes to try low alt bombing, he may try it.

 

WG did some stupid moves to make bombing at low altitude harder, so it requires some training (instead simply set bomb to not explode if dropped below given altitude).

Without mention that it's possible, some players may take "bombing not effective" from game as granted and not even try.

 



zen_monk_ #6 Posted 31 March 2020 - 07:49 AM

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Seriously, guys.

 

Every posted nonsense & derailment is used only to provoke an answer, to which an avalanche of bile & toxic follows.

 

Just stop answering.

 

Apply same principles we use outside on a daily bases now.


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TotalEgal #7 Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:01 AM

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@dapprman

You simply can test it by yourself by creating a test (training room). 

At least in contrast to jakub I flew the TU-12 @1400m and @800m and I could feel the increased chance in completely destroying a target with 1 bomb.

Note my TU-12 also is not specialist. 



GonerNL #8 Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:23 AM

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View PostKlausHetti, on 31 March 2020 - 06:52 AM, said:

- 1 to 1,5 km altitude? you have seen lower flying bombers? 

 

Quite frequently ... there is a number of pilots who made an art form of low-level bombing. Bloody effective too.

I'm not really into bombers, but I've got the Su-10 and I used it for the Strategic Strike (Oct 2019) event.

Used low level bombing (you also get lots of gunner kills) and got no.16 in Perseverance despite my lack of bombing skills.


Edited by GonerNL, 31 March 2020 - 10:30 AM.


dapprman #9 Posted 31 March 2020 - 11:13 AM

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View PostTotalEgal, on 31 March 2020 - 10:01 AM, said:

@dapprman

You simply can test it by yourself by creating a test (training room). 

At least in contrast to jakub I flew the TU-12 @1400m and @800m and I could feel the increased chance in completely destroying a target with 1 bomb.

Note my TU-12 also is not specialist. 


Good point.  Presently I'm finding keeping lower (~800m) seems to make a difference but it'll be a good way to see if I an do much higher without risking a battle.



Frateras #10 Posted 31 March 2020 - 05:12 PM

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I son't understand this discussionb. I take the Blenheim t3 or the Heinkel t4 and go on 3000 meters as far as possible and stay there. Of course it needs two bombs for a target and the slightest fault had to be avoided. But it worked. I don't fly bombers any more.

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Aimless #11 Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:51 AM

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View PostFrateras, on 31 March 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:

I son't understand this discussionb. I take the Blenheim t3 or the Heinkel t4 and go on 3000 meters as far as possible and stay there. Of course it needs two bombs for a target and the slightest fault had to be avoided. But it worked. I don't fly bombers any more.

 

The discussion is about Soviet bombers originally. Possibly they're totally different from the other nations?



jakub_czyli_ja #12 Posted 01 April 2020 - 04:10 PM

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View PostAimless, on 01 April 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

The discussion is about Soviet bombers originally. Possibly they're totally different from the other nations?

They are different.

US bombers, at least these regular present n the game, drift towards heavy defensive armament, average altitude capabilities and carpet bombing.

Nazi bombers are (in theory) high altitude fast(ish) bombers.

Soviet ones at tiers V-IX are low altitude (as for bombers), tactical bombers with low payload and fast reload time.

In general, they lack everything, with few exceptions like Tu-10's defensive armament and Tu-12's speed, so each kind of bombers requires a bit different playstyle to get its maximum performance.



Aimless #13 Posted 02 April 2020 - 03:39 PM

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That's what I wanted to point out. I would be extremely surprized if a Heinkel or a Blenheim would be nearly comparable to a Tu-10 or Tu-12 :)

dapprman #14 Posted 08 April 2020 - 01:45 PM

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View Postdapprman, on 31 March 2020 - 11:13 AM, said:


Good point.  Presently I'm finding keeping lower (~800m) seems to make a difference but it'll be a good way to see if I an do much higher without risking a battle.


For awareness - I did some training room tests and ~800-900m seems about the right height for accuracy, along with heavy breaking or a slightly early release.  Over 1200m and you actually often miss the target ....



dapprman #15 Posted 21 May 2020 - 12:47 PM

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View PostTotalEgal, on 31 March 2020 - 10:01 AM, said:

@dapprman

You simply can test it by yourself by creating a test (training room). 

At least in contrast to jakub I flew the TU-12 @1400m and @800m and I could feel the increased chance in completely destroying a target with 1 bomb.

Note my TU-12 also is not specialist. 


Now in the TU-12 - was that 800 or 1400m you recommend ?  I note that you do not come out of yellow warning till 1200 meters and my first few battles I went low and was just food.  Flying at ~3600-3800 I find if I drop 2 bombs on a target then one battle I'll knock out a target, the next, neither bomb will come close.  At that altitude I've resorted to dropping all 4 at once and relying on the fast reload and I still find all four can miss.

Going to give low level another go as that's the way I've been running them so far - stock defensive guns do not help (and losing an upper one from the TU-10 as well).



Frantiszek_D_F_J #16 Posted 26 July 2020 - 10:11 AM

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Gentlemen, you can argue, FIGHT for words, but tell me if you noticed any issues related to the bombing ??????????

1. Not for everyone the optimal bombardment height for a given aircraft is OPTIMUM for the PLAYER.
2. Crew skills and appropriate equipment settings are very important ...
3. The issue of the optimal altitude to drop the bombs, BUT if you do not compare these optimal altitudes, sometimes you will not find that you are at such an altitude that every ALL planes will come from the bottom, not to mention the higher flying planes?
4. And what is the altitude - the ceiling of the fire of low-fire anti-aircraft guns, and what is the minimum ceiling (usually) for high-altitude anti-aircraft guns from which they fire?
5. There is no single rule for all bombers .... why? Number of bombs, drop in series or one at a time, bomb strength and range depending on the settings and additional things on the plane, how the bomber rises quickly - is it able to go up, what is the rear gunner - settings and whether the player is able to use it .....
6. Important note - after dropping a bomb from a high altitude, it is unlikely that you change the direction of flight right away - keep the flight direction for a while,
7. I flew a little more low, I know the maps, I know the arrangement of the ground cells, I know whether, for example, with the given settings of the pilot, modules, equipment on a given plane, example flying at the height of the grid in the Command Center - a target for 30 points, will my bomb damage me , I know that when I have the HP of the aircraft in red (critical condition), I have to fly some 50-100m higher because my bomb will bring me - that's what WG set it up.
8. As a rule, I fly bombarding (I skip flying to the sector from above) from the height: bomb range + the pilot skill Demolition Expert, which is plus 10%. What's the height ?????????

Sorry, I can't tell you what it is, but it is roughly 150 meters ABOVE the ground and not according to what you see on the gauge that shows altitude above sea level.


I could write something more, but I'm going to fly.



Look at my bomber fights ... very low, but with great vigilance at the rear gunner and at the right moment to crash.

 

 

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Edited by Frantiszek_D_F_J, 26 July 2020 - 06:37 PM.





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