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Explanation of how Matchmaking handles Specialized planes.


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zen_monk_ #21 Posted 06 April 2020 - 11:31 AM

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View Postlevlos, on 06 April 2020 - 12:22 PM, said:

hey guys,

 

good news, I have a friend who knows a friend who is the boyfriend of someone's aunt who has access to the IBM Power System AC922, IBM POWER9 22C 3.07GHz, NVIDIA Volta GV100, Dual-rail Mellanox EDR InfiniBand super computer at the Department of Energy, in the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. I forwarded the last suggestion of ApartClassic, and I secured some computing time on the POWER9: an entire day ! Mind you, the machine has only 2.41 million cores and is only capable of 148.6 petaflops, so the computing power could not be sufficient.... but it is possible we might get an answer to the question "what is skill in WoWP" ! Aren't we a lucky bunch ?

 

Now if you will allow me, I want to share with you guys a science fiction short story of Frederic Brown:

 

Answer

by Fredric Brown, 1954

 Dwar Ev ceremoniously soldered the final connection with gold. The eyes of a dozen television cameras watched him and the sub-ether bore through the universe a dozen pictures of what he was doing.

He straightened and nodded to Dwar Reyn, then moved to a position beside the switch that would complete the contact when he threw it. The switch that would connect, all at once, all of the monster computing machines of all the populated planets in the universe – ninety-six billion planets – into the super-circuit that would connect them all into the one super-calculator, one cybernetics machine that would combine all the knowledge of all the galaxies.

Dwar Reyn spoke briefly to the watching and listening trillions. Then, after a moment’s silence, he said, “Now, Dwar Ev.”

Dwar Ev threw the switch. There was a mighty hum, the surge of power from ninety-six billion planets. Lights flashed and quieted along the miles-long panel.

Dwar Ev stepped back and drew a deep breath. “The honor of asking the first question is yours, Dwar Reyn.”

“Thank you,” said Dwar Reyn. “It shall be a question that no single cybernetics machine has been able to answer.”

He turned to face the machine. “Is there a God?”

The mighty voice answered without hesitation, without the clicking of single relay.

“Yes, now there is a God.”

Sudden fear flashed on the face of Dwar Ev. He leaped to grab the switch.

A bolt of lightning from the cloudless sky struck him down and fused the switch shut.

 

 

Dear WG, I am your paying customer and have a right to demand!

 

So I demand you either make an unlimited boost to likes available per day, or prevent this character here, Levlos, from posting more than once per day (and by default give him my one like, regardless of if i read it or not)!!  He gives me enough troubles with his illustrated posts, frustrate me immensely for not being able to like them - and now he's doing it again with texts!!

 

 

PS

Thank you so much for this one. I've read it as a kid, back in primary school before the home computers, and it punched me like a truck :great:


Edited by zen_monk_, 06 April 2020 - 11:47 AM.

stats were invented by Satan himself to suck the carefree fun out of gaming                            


Frateras #22 Posted 06 April 2020 - 06:32 PM

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I think it would be possible to develop an indicator for each players plane. And it does not matter for me if all players got WNRs about 50%, because I would neither win nor loose. So it would be really entertaining for me what would happen when all the 70-99% guys would loose one game after the other until they have reached a WNR of 50%. The claiming regarding to the 1.9-2.0 transition would have been nothing compared with that. It's a bit like this English handicap races where the fastest horse got the heaviest weight. But no one is betting on us so it makes no sense economically. I would be glad about a handicap like that anyway, because I don't care of my statistic but of dogfights and lot's of kills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Frateras, 06 April 2020 - 06:34 PM.

Black Ships Ate The Sky                                                                                                                              Exterminating Angel

Lucifer over London

30 Seconds Over Tokyo

 

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zen_monk_ #23 Posted 06 April 2020 - 06:58 PM

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Guys, guys, this was discussed many times before: MM based on skill (whatever that is) will never ever happen. It's impossible to even establish what the skill to be looked at is.

 

Specced planes? No one guarantees the guy in there went all the way to 472 or stayed at mere 100, or what type of enchantments he used - some guys here bragged on their setups which, frankly, were detrimental for the plane's role.

 

But what WG can do is pay more attention to the distribution of humans & classes per sides. 2 human bombers vs 2 bot bombers is game breaking. 3-4 human HF vs 1 human HF is game breaking, etc.

 

Sometimes uber flights irritate me so much to suggest "ban flights" or "let them wait an eternity for a similar pair to come" but hey, I know it's both impossibiru due to waiting time and the fun guys do have. And to counter the despair one feels when he sees a known expert pair on the other side, game loot & earnings should be based on your performance in the game, not w/l. That way, even on Tier 10 when faced with a known pair in 131 + XP-90, one can say "screw the sure loss, let's make the most I can on my losing side" and everyone goes home happy.


stats were invented by Satan himself to suck the carefree fun out of gaming                            


GonerNL #24 Posted 06 April 2020 - 11:44 PM

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If only they made MM understand that 3 heavies on one side and 3 multiroles on the other is not "balanced".

But for MM a fighter is a fighter ; light, multi, heavy, no difference ...

Same for what they call PvE planes, 3 tier X bombers vs same tier GA just does not work.

 

Working as intended ...



apartclassic #25 Posted 07 April 2020 - 06:26 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 06 April 2020 - 11:44 PM, said:

If only they made MM understand that 3 heavies on one side and 3 multiroles on the other is not "balanced".

But for MM a fighter is a fighter ; light, multi, heavy, no difference ...

Same for what they call PvE planes, 3 tier X bombers vs same tier GA just does not work.

 

Working as intended ...

 

Oh yeah, you reminded me about this - I forgot MM doesn't even differentiate between fighter classes, and 'PvE planes', let alone notice specialization. Good point.


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levlos #26 Posted 07 April 2020 - 08:04 AM

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tier X... tier X... wait, that reminds of something. Oh yes, the desert full of giant sharks that taketh away the pleasure of griding through a whole line for a year ? The maps too small and the bombers too strong ? The dreamy mix of veteran players that play in team, have full awareness of the (tiny) map, full knowledge of the turning rate of every plane, with fully specced plane with 15-skill crews (crew that can also sing acapella, tap-dance while cooking and paint impressionist paintings with their feet) versus players that cannot distinguish between base types and that think that defense is a major offense ?

 

Tier X is where you come to see your hopes die :) I need an archeologist to dig through the layers of dust that cover the planes I have in this tier. I began removing their modules a long time ago.

 

Worse thing is that the most morons I met lately were in tier... X ! Yes, you get to meet flights of two veterans on that tier. There is always one good/nice player and the other one who knows he is pretty bad and wins because he is carried on the shoulders of a giant. That knowledge makes him frustrated, angry and aggressive. Then, of instance, you in your miserable ground attack shoot the good player down, insults errupt instantly, by the bad player  (I shot pitbull twice in a row, for instance, in his EF-131 and his XF-90, while in my il-40P, and its the OTHER idiot that started abusing me. Or a team mate of Mytragyn who acts like a 5-year old because I shoot his team-mate).

 

I remember a few lines: "you think you are good but you are just a noob", "I am just better", or "I don't know you, you are a nobody", "GA noob". 'Noob' in tier X ? For shooting down your team-mate really ? What is this, kindergarden ?

 

One would assume that at higher tiers, some wisdom starts percolating slowly up through the digestionarry tract of the players (picture it). A flight of specialist XF-90 and EF-131 is garanteed to win -so you can relax and act playfully. But no, its the realm of the uber-predators and the uber-idiots in the backseat, who throw toxic crap at you for loosing and trying to put up a fight. Makes you shrug.

 

People are much more friendly at tier IV. They answer when you type, they laugh. You make new friends there. Tier X is nothing but the purgatory.


Edited by levlos, 07 April 2020 - 08:21 AM.

- You can't shoot me! I have a very low threshold of death. My doctor says I can't have bullets enter my body at any time.-

- Handle these capsules with care. Dr. Noah's bacillus is highly contagious. This germ, when distributed in the atmosphere will make all women beautiful and destroy all men over 4'6."-

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GonerNL #27 Posted 07 April 2020 - 10:26 AM

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View Postlevlos, on 07 April 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

People are much more friendly at tier IV. They answer when you type, they laugh. 

 

Agreed 100%.

Players at low/mid tiers are much more relaxed. The really toxic ones are mostly at tier IX - X. As if they have to prove something ...

I do fly tier X occasionally because there are some planes like La-15, P.1102, F-86 that I like to fly, but it can be very frustrating with all those überbombers and the 'atmosphere'. And MM is very erratic up there.

 



apartclassic #28 Posted 07 April 2020 - 11:19 AM

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Same here. I mostly avoid t10, don't want to keep running into hyper-competitive folks flying meta planes. One, because of the unhealthy atmosphere and attitude. Two, because they force me to fly only specific planes, so I get a chance to counter them - and it's not my style, I fly everything because in my book each plane has some kind of forte about it, a gimmick that validates its presence in this game. If there's a flight of HF/bomber on the other team, my choice of a low-altitude or slow, or undergunned plane already dooms me. Three, because of all this childish nonsense in chat - gloating when winning, blaming everyone when losing, lobbing insults because of 'headhunting', and on and on. Not my game, so to speak.

 

Just as an example - I decided to fly the t10 BV again, after a long time, to reacquaint myself with it. It was late, not many people around, and I kept running into the same person all the time. He was flying exclusively HF, obviously specialized, and it seems he thought this made him invincible and a pro. I tried three times, losing each battle because HF is a lot more flexible than the poor Batplane. Enough was enough, my daily mission had the 'win' condition. I started changing planes (because that's how I do it, fly a plane for a daily xp bonus, once done I switch to the next in hangar, without special preference). He started losing battle after battle, and the trashtalking commenced almost immediately. He was blaming his teambuddy for losing, disregarding the actual MM and flow of the battle we were in (his teambuddy was in an IL, my teambuddy was in - you guessed it - a bomber; IL just can't keep up with bombers, it was inevitable that 'my' bomber was getting to sectors faster than 'his' GAA).

You had a meta-addict, trying to win at all cost, trying to prove he's the best, and misbehaving when things didn't go his way - and that sums up t9/10 for me. The only upside was the fact that he was alone, not in a flight. If there were 2 people with something to prove, it would've been even worse.


Edited by apartclassic, 07 April 2020 - 04:31 PM.

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 


Ziptop #29 Posted 07 April 2020 - 03:55 PM

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View Postapartclassic, on 07 April 2020 - 07:26 AM, said:

 

Oh yeah, you reminded me about this - I forgot MM doesn't even differentiate between fighter classes, and 'PvE planes', let alone notice specialization. Good point.

Really? 

(I think I just laughed my coffee through my nose....need to clean my keyboard now)



L0RD_F3N1X #30 Posted 08 April 2020 - 02:29 PM

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This all discussion is about nothing. Answer to first question is simpler. Specialized planes shows that MM is making better and worst team that need to loose.

Battle after battle same scenario and specialized planes are mosttly in one team becouse more expirenced players need to be together to set a proper result.

The more you lose, the more you play and the more money they will get. This is their "Fairplay"



levlos #31 Posted 08 April 2020 - 04:50 PM

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Lord,

 

Sometimes you loose too much and you simply quit. There is a fine balance between joy and frustration, challenge and reward. The perfect game design makes you balance both sides. Pay-to-win leans on frustration and withdrawal mechanics.

 

We all prefer balanced game-designs to pay-to-win ones.


- You can't shoot me! I have a very low threshold of death. My doctor says I can't have bullets enter my body at any time.-

- Handle these capsules with care. Dr. Noah's bacillus is highly contagious. This germ, when distributed in the atmosphere will make all women beautiful and destroy all men over 4'6."-

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Ziptop #32 Posted 09 April 2020 - 10:47 AM

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View Postlevlos, on 08 April 2020 - 05:50 PM, said:

Lord,

 

Sometimes you loose too much and you simply quit. There is a fine balance between joy and frustration, challenge and reward. The perfect game design makes you balance both sides. Pay-to-win leans on frustration and withdrawal mechanics.

 

We all prefer balanced game-designs to pay-to-win ones.

Indeed, with all well crafted games there needs to be an element of frustration so that when you improve and overcome that obstacle (and move onto the next level of frustration) you feel some sense of reward and achievement.

 

This has to be true of pay-to-win also to a certain degree surely? Poor balance and being repeatedly roflstomped doesn't quite make me want to spend more money on a thing....maybe I'm old fashioned?



ACDACEbACDCA #33 Posted 09 April 2020 - 01:38 PM

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another example of wonderful MM

Attached Files

  • Attached File   060420ac d_mm.GIF   132.91K


Woolfie_aka_paca_chatban #34 Posted 09 April 2020 - 06:05 PM

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FURTHER TO MY DELETED POST ( thanks wowp  )shot_035.jpgshot_036.jpg is this  bots at their best  my team out scored and lost  

well played the other team for the bots capping more than mine ????

ps I will try and get it the other way round which will happen because of the fair mm system 

 


Edited by paca_madaidhean, 09 April 2020 - 06:10 PM.


prawiejakzywiec666 #35 Posted 10 April 2020 - 07:17 AM

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View PostACDACEbACDCA, on 09 April 2020 - 01:38 PM, said:

another example of wonderful MM

Specced planes do not mean a thing. You capped 1 SECTOR and did nothing else to win. Sorry but it was not MM fault.


chikken


Aimless #36 Posted 10 April 2020 - 09:59 AM

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View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 10 April 2020 - 07:17 AM, said:

Specced planes do not mean a thing.

 

I agree to some extent. Although I think the number of specced planes per side already give you a clear hint about the result of the battle, especially on the tiers > III. OTOH, what are players expecting from a matchmaker? What do we need for this? Each pilot skill point and each part of equipment added to the battle weight? Battle count, WR and avg XP/b also counting? How about a fitness tracker connected to each player so the MM can see if he's sick or drunk, so he won't distort the calculations for the team rosters? How many hours are you willing to wait in the queue for that?

 

As the MM is now, it's a high grade of gambling, that's true, and not everybody likes to gamble, granted. But aren't we all being treated the same that way? Sometimes you're the pidgeon, sometimes you're the statue. And sometimes you meet FLIEGEN_KLATSCHE in his RB-17, or Frantiszek in his EF 131 in a flight with prawie. Hopefully not in the red team. And sometimes it's just not your best day. Please don't come around and tell me that it is different for you.

 



Woolfie_aka_paca_chatban #37 Posted 10 April 2020 - 04:11 PM

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shot_038.jpgmore fair mm 

I won this one 


Edited by paca_madaidhean, 10 April 2020 - 04:11 PM.


apartclassic #38 Posted 10 April 2020 - 08:48 PM

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View Postpaca_madaidhean, on 10 April 2020 - 04:11 PM, said:

shot_038.jpgmore fair mm 

I won this one 

 

Wow, you have won the internets then. 2v2 (2 humans per side), on t2-3, with your plane specialized and with over 360 battles in - yeah, a true achievement, worthy of a monument and a gift of virgins clad in golden silk. Or somethingsomesuch. Honestly mate, if you lost it, then it would be a curious thing. You showing a win in such a battle is just embarassing.


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GonerNL #39 Posted 11 April 2020 - 04:14 PM

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And the MM suckx ... 2 humans and a bot with 6-13k on one team, the other team all below 5k. I spot 1 human on no.6.

 



KlausHetti #40 Posted 11 April 2020 - 04:52 PM

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Goner,
Check again ... there are 2x2 humans.
One name is bolow the popup window.
But you can see the grey cross in tthe click box.
He/she is on the 5th place. 


Edited by KlausHetti, 11 April 2020 - 04:54 PM.

Morgen ist heute schon gestern! 

 





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