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Explanation of how Matchmaking handles Specialized planes.


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GonerNL #41 Posted 11 April 2020 - 08:24 PM

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Yeah, I know there is another human ; point is, he also has only few points ... very unbalanced battle.

zen_monk_ #42 Posted 11 April 2020 - 08:41 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 11 April 2020 - 09:24 PM, said:

Yeah, I know there is another human ; point is, he also has only few points ... very unbalanced battle.

 

Very unbalanced performance of humans, not MM's fault. The game set the teams all right.


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prawiejakzywiec666 #43 Posted 12 April 2020 - 06:51 AM

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In majority of the matches it is the human pilots fault to loose the battle not the MM.

Examples from Yesterday:

1) 8-9 tier fight I was flying a heavy vs few humans on the other team (including "X player" in specced Me 262).  He was following me for most of the game and achieved game breaking 1600pts (including 1000pts at the end of the game). My team easily capped the sectors and we won.

2) 7-8 fight vs 2x unspecced russian bomber flight I was on a heavy (8 tier). The opponents were playing with brains and there was not much I could do to prevent them from taking over sectors. Even though they were shot down multiple times over missile they kept on capping sectors. The result - we lost the match.

 

@GonerNL - you may always complain about the MM but the fact is it is all about HUMAN PERFORMANCE that counts. Nothing else.

 


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apartclassic #44 Posted 12 April 2020 - 07:32 AM

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View Postprawiejakzywiec666, on 12 April 2020 - 06:51 AM, said:

(...)

 but the fact is it is all about HUMAN PERFORMANCE that counts. Nothing else.

 

 

Bingo, it's the key thing in this game. Left alone to themselves, bots cancel each other out (I was disconnected from a pure bot battle, i.e. I was the only human there - the battle auto-resolved with a Draw). That is not to say that if it played out it would be a Draw too, there are variables that would probably lead to a normal win for one side (the other side would probably win, as my team was short one plane) - but from a design point of view, the humans are supposed to be the key factor. And they are. MM alone has nothing to it. When MM heavily favours one side (situations quoted a lot in here), it does not mean that that side will automatically win. It only means that the side with 'worse' lineup asigned by MM has to play smarter/better to win. Humans will make a difference, good or bad, but they always are the defining factor for any battle.


Edited by apartclassic, 12 April 2020 - 07:33 AM.

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zen_monk_ #45 Posted 12 April 2020 - 07:44 AM

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There are games where MM failed, make no mistake about it. Two human bombers vs two bot bombers, one side with four HF (half of them human), the other with one, etc... but 95% of the time the teams are evenly matched in classes/humans, and 95% times all you said it two posts above stands. It's up to the players to make their fate, we can't blame MM.

 

Where the MM fails utterly, especially on higher tiers - and there's no help there - is when one side has a flight of two experienced players with good combination of, say, bomber and HF and they are on TeamSpeak an' all, and the other side has two randomites. You can't beat that, here I agree with all the complainers (even with the leavers).

 

Everything else can be overcomed.

 

 


Edited by zen_monk_, 12 April 2020 - 09:59 AM.

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levlos #46 Posted 12 April 2020 - 08:20 AM

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In the desert that have become tiers IX and X, it would take a long queue to match players with anything else than human/ not human criteria. Longer than the one of people bying toilet paper at the start of Covid-19.

 

A team of veterans with at least one bomber in tier X are 95% bound to win there. So let them.


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zen_monk_ #47 Posted 12 April 2020 - 08:27 AM

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That's why I said "and there's no help there", thinking of waiting time if the MM wants to pair the pairs.

 

Too bad, I have some nice Tier 10 planes I love to fly. But as you said, it became a flat desert with rolling tumbleweed where only nasty gunslingers roam in pairs.

 

 


Edited by zen_monk_, 12 April 2020 - 09:55 AM.

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GonerNL #48 Posted 12 April 2020 - 11:56 AM

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View Postzen_monk_, on 12 April 2020 - 08:44 AM, said:

but 95% of the time the teams are evenly matched in classes/humans, 

 

If you take WG's "working as intended" as the gospel truth, then yes.

But IMHO seeing all fighters as a class - light, multi, heavy - and as equal is just not right. Same for PvE planes, a GA is not a bomber, certainly not at tier IX and X. But MM thinks they are and "balances" using that.



apartclassic #49 Posted 12 April 2020 - 12:13 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 12 April 2020 - 11:56 AM, said:

 

If you take WG's "working as intended" as the gospel truth, then yes.

But IMHO seeing all fighters as a class - light, multi, heavy - and as equal is just not right. Same for PvE planes, a GA is not a bomber, certainly not at tier IX and X. But MM thinks they are and "balances" using that.

 

Hold on there - the stated intent was ALWAYS the shortest possible wait in queue. Balancing was a secondary consideration. 2.x MM is all about those 97 seconds max, instead of 12 minutes of wait. In that sense, MM is absolutely working as intended. If you are in the queue longer than 97 seconds, you can be totally sure you have just lost connection - and MM did its work in the meantime, i.e. setting up a battle with available humans, filling the teams up with bots, and launching it. This was the intent for MM changes.

The way balancing is done is obviously flawed, and we're discussing it. It does not change the fact that the basic goal of the dev team is working - I dare say - flawlessly. You press the Battle! button and 2 minutes later you're already there.


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zen_monk_ #50 Posted 12 April 2020 - 01:07 PM

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Goner mate, please take this in the most friendly manner - I'm not trying to antagonize with you in any way, nor to rub you with anything. I like your taste in music, you are always polite and civilized, any discussion with you can be done in decent manner as we always had. And regarding MM issue I agree there are some flaws and I stated them many times, as above in this thread.

 

So with that in mind, take a good look at the game we had. We greeted each other, I haven't fired a shot at you nor you on me, all went fine... until from the middle of the battle you started to complain on MM. I asked you what's wrong with it, you said "unbalanced" and continue to complain.

 

But take a careful look here: the MM was as perfect as it can be. Both sides had equal distribution of all, both in humans and classes. The only problem of your side is, we kicked your bu*t. The two of us randomites played this game much better than the humans on your side. It has nothing to do with MM but with the performance of the people from both teams.

 

Still, you complained. OK, what's wrong with MM here?

 


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levlos #51 Posted 12 April 2020 - 01:21 PM

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Goner says that gouaro2 should have been on the other team so as to balance the game. This would be done by the automated MM by taking in account a vast array of player data (where is Jakub when you need him?).

 

I remember when I was playing wargame red dragon (a RT cold war tactical game) that the MM was a joke: when an automated matchmaking script balanced the teams according to skill, nobody joined those games. People want unbalances, it seems.

 

ah, also and on a side note, players such as the mig-3 should be rewarded by the game for playing lower tier (remember, dont use negative but positive rewards). Anybody has an idea for the severily underperforming players ? I mean, they don't really enjoy themselves either, do they ?


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apartclassic #52 Posted 12 April 2020 - 01:39 PM

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Looking only at team composition above, I'd say Goner's team should have won that. MM gave his team both a human bomber on top tier, and a human GAA, whereas zen's side had 2 bot GAAs. The difference there was done by humans either doing or not doing their job. Both teams are balanced very closely plane-to-plane it terms of tiers and types, but scores are very different - and that's the reason why this battle went as it did.

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GonerNL #53 Posted 12 April 2020 - 08:55 PM

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Sorry guys, I'm at an age where I can't remember the color of the underpants I put on this morning.

So, the details of a battle from December last year (?!) are something from a distant past ...



zen_monk_ #54 Posted 12 April 2020 - 09:17 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 12 April 2020 - 09:55 PM, said:

Sorry guys, I'm at an age where I can't remember the color of the underpants I put on this morning.

So, the details of a battle from December last year (?!) are something from a distant past ...


With the same complaints on MM you are giving today. What went on in the battle is not an issue (we trashed you soundly) but during the game you complained on the unfair MM... Here, look at the board and tell me what's wrong with MM there?

 

 


Edited by zen_monk_, 13 April 2020 - 06:25 AM.

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InVictuS_ShaDoW #55 Posted 12 April 2020 - 09:52 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 12 April 2020 - 08:55 PM, said:

Sorry guys, I'm at an age where I can't remember the color of the underpants I put on this morning.

So, the details of a battle from December last year (?!) are something from a distant past ...

 

I'm sorry Goner, but colleagues have good comments about your complaints. You often whine and you have nothing, because it's not the fault of bots but different skills of players. I will write gently, you also need to improve your skills. Only accusations about the team and about yourself? Especially when leaving battles ...



ThinderChief #56 Posted 14 April 2020 - 10:08 AM

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View Postjakub_czyli_ja, on 05 April 2020 - 07:53 PM, said:

So players with good situational awareness, good in dodging, firing, would fight with similar ones. None of these factors would significantly decrease like WR in irrecoverable way. If player falls down due to criteria decrease (after all meets targets harder to hit and shooting better, so it's harder to dodge) would fall into lower ladder, would quite fast go back up, because has better skill than those on ladder he felt - they are worse shooters, worse dodgers and have more tunnel vision.

Simple as that.

 

So true, I think my win rate would get a lot better if I improved my S.A...



GonerNL #57 Posted 14 April 2020 - 02:48 PM

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View PostInVictuS_ShaDoW, on 12 April 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

Only accusations about the team 

 

I never, ever complain(ed) about my team.

Only about matchmaking. Please don't lie to prove your point ...



Ziptop #58 Posted 17 April 2020 - 04:09 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 12 April 2020 - 09:55 PM, said:

Sorry guys, I'm at an age where I can't remember the color of the underpants I put on this morning.

So, the details of a battle from December last year (?!) are something from a distant past ...

In this age of Corona lockdown is anybody still bothering with underpants? I mean, providing your webcam is aimed right and you threw on a shirt for that video conference with your colleagues who's to know what you are wearing (or not) under the desk? I'm absolutely convinced that half the world is working in their pajamas at the moment. 



InVictuS_ShaDoW #59 Posted 17 April 2020 - 06:25 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 14 April 2020 - 02:48 PM, said:

 

I never, ever complain(ed) about my team.

Only about matchmaking. Please don't lie to prove your point ...

Yes, never ..., we met many times on opposite sides, and often there was whining and then leaving the battle. I regret that battle replays are automatically deleted after 30 days.

 



Woolfie_aka_paca_chatban #60 Posted 18 April 2020 - 08:52 PM

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I still say  there is no mm  

just  "may the bots be with you " 






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