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Quickstart guide to 2.1.1.0

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apartclassic #21 Posted 29 April 2020 - 09:22 PM

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View PostFrateras, on 29 April 2020 - 08:18 PM, said:

We agree that light fighters should not attack ground targets if there are flying targets on base. I sometimes did so when all the targets in the air were killed and I don't want to wait in the AA fire for new ones. just to keep the AAs down. They guns in the mid can be destroyed even by light fighters and I often got the impression that I could make the last missing points with. Meanwhile I almost leave that base and fly to the next one. It's more effective I think. What I don't understand when planes without bombs, rockets or 37 mm guns attack a factory plant. They are just a target for the AA and might prevent the capturing when they got shot. We got the issue, that we have many pilots with light fighter that got no chance in a AtoA combat. (Many HF or Multiroles can't dogfight too, but they have strong guns with far range and can kill a light fighter easily when they surprise it.) Somewhere this new pilots have to fly and make some points. I don't think they like to hear permanently - go fly in a low tier -. especially because many experienced pilots have specialized themselves for the lower tiers. So it's sometimes more easy to make points  in the higher or middle tiers. The only possible strategy does not exist. It's almost a mix of many tactics regarding changing circumstances. So there are reasons for "wrong" strategies and there is not enough communication in a game to discuss that. So might be flights with experienced pilots and beginners would help. Something like a mentoring system.

 

 

I'd like to adress two points that you're making here.

 

1) Killing the AA gun with any plane you're flying, after all aerial targets are eliminated, is a sound choice. Mind you - after other threats are eliminated. I am amazed by people plinking at GTs while there are ADA on their tail, not to mention red team planes. This is very close to plain stupidity, it's like trying to blow out a candle while your house is on fire. Moreover, taking out the AA gun itself removes the threat, one does not have to try and blow up the neighbouring bunkers using LF's light machine guns (quickstart guide, remember - early fighters have just too puny firepower). So the best thing to do when approaching a sector you want to cap is to first eliminate aerial threats, then either move on or maybe strafe the guns alone - but if it's a contested sector, you will have another aerial threat (this equals capture points) faster than trying to snuff out some GTs; the mistake made by many people is ignoring the aerial targets and threats, while trying to bomb something, and that's a very fast way both to the respawn queue and a sector lost. When attacking e.g. missile base in a fragile LF, especially when you're bottom tier (meaning that AA is one tier higher than you, dealing more damage) it's better to kill the two ADA as fast as possible, and then just getting out of there if there are no other aerial targets. New players trying to strafe GTs are more likely to crash into them than to effectively destroy those GTs; leave GTs for the so called 'PvE planes' (so GAA and bombers), stick to what your plane does best.

 

2) ANY damage done to other planes (neutral or enemy) is worth more than damage done to GTs, for any class. Moreover, even when you start flying mid and high tier planes, armed with high calibre guns, it does not make you more effective against GTs. There are hidden stats concerning particular resistances (e.g. fire resistance, explosion resistance), and hidden stats for cannons. A 37mm cannon of a Yak is NOT as effective versus armoured GT as a 37mm IL cannon (if you want analogy, think of different types of ammo loaded - you need High Explosive ammo to kill planes, but need more of Armour Piercing stuff if you want to blow up steel bunkers or steel bridges - again, I'm simplifying). Non-PvE planes are always better off doing air-to-air combat, even if they die in the process, because of xp/silver gains associated with different types of targets. Even if you ram another plane, you will get the xp/silver for a kill (and capture points), while crashing into a GT will only make you look silly (and I have a Pavlov's reaction of pressing F8 immediately when I see a crash notification - 'Good job, good job...'). The fact that one's plane is not meta, or is not Elite, does NOT mean it's useless, does NOT mean it will not get aerial kills, does NOT mean one is powerless. Learn how to recognize bots, improve your gunnery, and just wipe out higher tier bots with your puny stock I-16 (late) for massive experience and monetary gains; it's totally doable, and much more enjoyable than just... peppering some bunkers with your peashooters...

 

Most of the time the issues are not about the planes, it's about how are they used. And that's the topic I'm writing about (probably too much) here.


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Frateras #22 Posted 30 April 2020 - 12:02 AM

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I still believe in ignoring red or white planes and playing splash 'n dash, when the plane is very fast and flown very deep. It's a good planned action which surprises the enemy and three AA bases more or less makes a difference. Is there a table about the damage points and their contribution in capturing a base? Of course it must be a fast plane. When I was specializing the Mosquito for example I had both slots for equipment used for a better speed motor power and aerodynamic improved coating to make it really fast. Meanwhile I have just the engine power and the plane is not fast enough any more to survive an attack like that. That's what I mean with "circumstances" even a little change in factors decides whether an action is sensible or not. I often do that with other fast planes and see then 3-4 reds still on base when I've bombed it blue. Not the job of a HF to kill them and I like to survive. I would like to know whether it's possible to calculate the result before the attack and not just guessing it.

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apartclassic #23 Posted 30 April 2020 - 01:15 AM

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View PostFrateras, on 30 April 2020 - 12:02 AM, said:

I still believe in ignoring red or white planes and playing splash 'n dash, when the plane is very fast and flown very deep. It's a good planned action which surprises the enemy and three AA bases more or less makes a difference. Is there a table about the damage points and their contribution in capturing a base? Of course it must be a fast plane. When I was specializing the Mosquito for example I had both slots for equipment used for a better speed motor power and aerodynamic improved coating to make it really fast. Meanwhile I have just the engine power and the plane is not fast enough any more to survive an attack like that. That's what I mean with "circumstances" even a little change in factors decides whether an action is sensible or not. I often do that with other fast planes and see then 3-4 reds still on base when I've bombed it blue. Not the job of a HF to kill them and I like to survive. I would like to know whether it's possible to calculate the result before the attack and not just guessing it.

 

It so happened that we met in battle shortly afterwards, on a map with 2 plants. I believe you tried to apply the above tactics, which just didn't work that time. You crashed once, you got destroyed by AA, while in the meantime kills done around and above you made the game. As much as your tactics and advice may be viable in some situations, it's not really applicable universally, nor is it helpful for newer players (because I don't think I've ever seen a Mosquito flown on tier 3 or 4). Granted, your task was made harder by the fact that you were in your Hornet, and the AA was tier 8, but you have just made a series of mistakes I'm talking about in this thread.


Edited by apartclassic, 03 June 2020 - 12:34 AM.

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Frateras #24 Posted 30 April 2020 - 01:39 AM

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It was not the deep flight speed attack that was talking about. Just a Hornet in the grind with the first engine and airframe. which is loading off bombs and rockets on a factory plant at a middle altitude.. You've shot me three times with a fully expanded SU-something.I still don't know how to fly it but it makes more victories than defeats. I didn't want to bother you with my comments and regret that we did not meet in one of the next games with my Arrow. And here a last advice from me, if you have bombs and rockets throw them as early as possible the earlier you got new one. (But take care of apartclassic). For T3 and 4 I prefer the FW 57 and the Blenheim HF. They are not so fast but have rear gunners and if someone flies deep enough attacking fighters can't avoid it and the AA does not shoot me into pieces. But it's surely often better to shoot the HF first. Depends on who else attacks the base and where the HFs are.

Edited by Frateras, 30 April 2020 - 02:41 AM.

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TotalEgal #25 Posted 30 April 2020 - 07:11 AM

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View PostFrateras, on 30 April 2020 - 01:39 AM, said:

You've shot me three times with a fully expanded SU-something. 

So, even after being killed 2x by a high tier Multirole, you still used the same useless strategy and are killed a third time? 

Woohooo that's what I name brainless. As I said in an earlier post. 



levlos #26 Posted 30 April 2020 - 07:21 AM

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I'd say that even mounting ordnance on your heavy fighter is a mistake.

 

Why ? Well, your heavy's engines are optimized for high altitudes, and you must always stay above the fray to dive and take out the most dangerous enemy and/or the bombers. The minute you tunnel-vision on a ground target, you give up your role and advantages. As a heavy, you are fast, you fly high and overview the battle: it is your role to swiftly move around and attack/ defend the sectors as needed: you are at the top of the food chain, so you got to act like a predator. Always check your minimap to see where the other heavies and bombers are -light fighters do not have your boost and mobility. Don't get stuck somewhere unless the sector is crucial (for example, a central missile base or a single side plant). Leave the ground attack to the bots (or the ground attack planes): send them on targets you deem necessary with F2, and then cover them with your heavy.

 

Remember: you might want to go over a plant/ missile base to escort  your friendly bombers and attackers on some maps (when there is only one for both sides). This wins the game most of the time.

 

Bomb-wise,as a rule, I only mount bombs or rockets on a heavy with fully upgraded aerodynamic pylons (80% less speed handicap), and then again, spend most of the games with the explosives attached under my fuselage or wings. I mostly forget about them. I understand a P-38 pilot might mount them just to go less bloody fast or send some rockets in AA roles, but damn those who mount bombs on Japanese heavies, they just make themselves an easier target !!!


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zen_monk_ #27 Posted 30 April 2020 - 08:54 AM

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(...monumental music playing, the deep booming voice-over starts)

 

The good Lord created Heavy Fighters

To chase Bombers across the skies

And swoop down on Ground Attackers

While conserving energy to climb back up

To intercept those respawned Bombers again.

Any smaller bird, Light or Multi, may be pray

Only if directly on the path to primary targets

As one must resist the temptation to turn

Or use the ordnance placed there

To bring him low in disadvantage...

 

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Frateras #28 Posted 30 April 2020 - 10:08 AM

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View Postlevlos, on 30 April 2020 - 07:21 AM, said:

I'd say that even mounting ordnance on your heavy fighter is a mistake.

 

Why ? Well, your heavy's engines are optimized for high altitudes, and you must always stay above the fray to dive and take out the most dangerous enemy and/or the bombers. The minute you tunnel-vision on a ground target, you give up your role and advantages. As a heavy, you are fast, you fly high and overview the battle: it is your role to swiftly move around and attack/ defend the sectors as needed: you are at the top of the food chain, so you got to act like a predator. Always check your minimap to see where the other heavies and bombers are -light fighters do not have your boost and mobility. Don't get stuck somewhere unless the sector is crucial (for example, a central missile base or a single side plant). Leave the ground attack to the bots (or the ground attack planes): send them on targets you deem necessary with F2, and then cover them with your heavy.

 

Remember: you might want to go over a plant/ missile base to escort  your friendly bombers and attackers on some maps (when there is only one for both sides). This wins the game most of the time.

 

Bomb-wise,as a rule, I only mount bombs or rockets on a heavy with fully upgraded aerodynamic pylons (80% less speed handicap), and then again, spend most of the games with the explosives attached under my fuselage or wings. I mostly forget about them. I understand a P-38 pilot might mount them just to go less bloody fast or send some rockets in AA roles, but damn those who mount bombs on Japanese heavies, they just make themselves an easier target !!!

Thank you Levlos but the Hornet with the small engine is stalling above 2500 meters, so most fighters can go that altitude and each bomber can escape.  "Bomb-wise,as a rule, I only mount bombs or rockets on a heavy with fully upgraded aerodynamic pylons (80% less speed handicap), and then again, spend most of the games with the explosives attached under my fuselage or wings."  That's what I always ask myself, when 2.0 started the bombs and rockets did not make a difference so for what are the Phylones then. Has it changed? Thanks for your advice bur it's also possible to destroy some GT and shoot a defense plane then. Although there is a much higher risk. IMy strategy works yesterday and the day before. This morning at 3 a.m. I ignored a plane which was following me for the rest of the game. That's all. 

 

@ zen_monk.

 

the AA is missing in the song and the other HF's too. So that is the pinch grinder while conquering a base.


Edited by Frateras, 30 April 2020 - 10:29 AM.

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levlos #29 Posted 30 April 2020 - 10:44 AM

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Hey Frateras,

 

2500 meters is more than enough to get the job done. If a fighter at tier VII goes up there, it will be easy pickings for you: it will be very short on energy, and you can outrun it easily (once your plane is upgraded and you use the +5% consumable). As for bombers, if they are above 2500 meters, let them be there: their bombing will not be accurate enough to influence the game, they effectively opt themselves out of the game by going high. By the time they cap a base, you will have capped twice or thrice the number ! As for the average bomber, they will fly at less than 2500m: take out the bot ones, and you have done your job excellently !

 

Aerodynamic pylons reduce the speed penalty you get when you install some ground ordnance -the penalty works if you have the bombs on or not (sigh). With aerodynamic pylon's equipment cailbrated to about 460-470, you reduce such penalty by 80%. If I remember well, having bombs and rockets on my beaufighter with 478 aero-pylons gets my speed reduced by a mere 6-7 kmph, which is really nothing. The price to pay is longer reload, but who cares on a heavy, right ? :)

 

I did not say that bombs are useless on a heavy fighter, I find them situational and they generally induce serious tactical mistakes by merely being mounted -that's my humble opinion :) You just might help cap that missile base quickly, or quicken the glacial pace at which the bots capture a plant, but their use sometimes puts you in a vulnerable spot.


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apartclassic #30 Posted 30 April 2020 - 01:51 PM

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Fraters, no. It wasn't how it went. You went bombing and rocketing a contested plant, while there were 2 bot bombers over your head from my team (definitely not at 2500m altitude), plus a bot light fighter. Yet instead of killing the enemy bombers (your main task as HF), or chasing them away, or disrupting their bombing, or killing the bot fighter that was shooting at your own bombers (also your task, as escorting your bombers) - you decided to stay on low altitude and plink at ground targets. By the time I got to the plant, there were 2 GAA from your team and a bomber from your team, and you there - versus 2 of my bombers (totally unmolested), two light fighters (free to unload on your bombers), and an MRF (Su-9, for the record). Anything you or your bots gained was reclaimed by my team in a blink of an eye (4 aerial kills over a contested sector = 240 cap points). This isn't 'tactics', you have made everything there was to do - except crashing yourself - to give this plant to my team. That's a mistake commonly repeated by newer players. That's the sort of thing I write about when I say 'bomb after you eliminate aerial threats' - which you didn't. I didn't follow you around at all, I simply went where my presence was sure to make a decisive difference and did exactly what I just said - eliminated aerial targets before even thinking of snuffing AA (because - hint hint - that big cannon on Su-9 is almost useless even against AA guns, not to mention armoured targets) or dropping my own 2 bombs.

 

This situation brings to mind another common feature distinguishing newer and less skilled players. They are not flexible during battles. If they have bombs, they will always start with an attempt at a bombing run, disregarding everything else - because they always did that, and it worked. One has to adapt, and know when to switch tactics. It's pure statistics, so certainly 'bomb first' works sometimes - but the higher you go in tiers, the higher the likelihood of it working against you. For an experienced player all it takes is three glances - first glance at the MM lineup at the start of the battle (is there a human? what plane is he in?), then on a map (which sector is most likely to be attacked by a human player), and then just at radar, to verify if that player is there. If he is, and is doing the bomb run - there goes a frag.

Yet another thing - suppose you do the bombing, and there are ADA around, plus AA fire. You drop your ordnance, and all this time something is shooting at you. Quite often newer players don't even get to destroy their intended target before they themselves are shot down, either by ADA (heavy ADA will prioritize planes using ordnance on that sector) or AA barrage (because, since you want to bomb, you're probably the first and only target to enter their firing cone, so every single gun in that sector will focus you and you only, till something else enters the zone). Instead of ANY gain at all they instantly give capture points to the opposing team. I'm sure everyone has seen that happen multiple times. It's a banzai charge, only in the air (so I guess it's more of a kamikaze strike).

 

I don't mean to pick on you personally, it's nothing personal. You gave me a perfect example illustrating exactly what I meant. Both the thinking 'my plane is not Elite/specced/uberspecced, so I will do GTs', and the mistake in choosing primary targets, and the mistake of ignoring the intended role of your plane, and the mistake of the lack of spatial awareness, etc. You were unlucky in that there was a human player who immediately exploited your own mistakes - but they are not just your mistakes, they are common mistakes of many many players who share this World (of Warplanes) with us. Such mistakes can be avoided. For instance, by reading some advice, in some threads on this forum. Hint hint? :)


Edited by apartclassic, 30 April 2020 - 02:08 PM.

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Frateras #31 Posted 30 April 2020 - 03:13 PM

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As you mentioned there were several blues of my team. Si I came in at amid height to destroy some target and to kill one or two reds then. That almost works because I'm fast in destroying GTs- This time it didn't work. If we met three times by accident we wanted the same bases. If you think i fly to deep, I think it does not make a big difference whether I fly on 500 or 2000 meters to the base, because every average fighter can go this altitude. My flexibility at 3 a.m might be reduced. 

 

Addendum:: After an endless series of defeats and technical issues today  I must say you're right I felt back into old routines. I changed the mix of strategies onto higher altitude and it works. Defeats don't pay.


Edited by Frateras, 30 April 2020 - 11:50 PM.

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apartclassic #32 Posted 20 May 2020 - 06:32 PM

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To bump the thread, here's a little illustration again - one of the most typical. I edited out the name of the poor soul, but you can insert there almost anyone relatively fresh to flying the German heavy fighter line (unfortunately, up to tier 6 in some cases):

 

 

This is a heavy fighter, not a bomber. All the bombs he dropped during that battle (and it was more than one load) gave a whooping 1 GT destroyed, which is definitely not a gold mine. Some of the damage dealt to aerial targets was by the reargunners, shooting at ADA and red planes pursuing this one. He didn't even notice heavy ADA on his tail, and when a higher tier light fighter targetted him, he was helpless - being too low, too slow, and obviously just an xp pinata. On the plus side, he was trying to shoot down planes too - but not very successfully. Ironically enough, with his 3420 personal points he was on 6th place in the team - which could lead him to think he was doing fine, only the MM with him being bottom tier was 'unfair'.


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RoyalFlyingCorps #33 Posted 20 May 2020 - 07:41 PM

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He still did better than I do in my XF 90.

apartclassic #34 Posted 30 June 2020 - 05:29 PM

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A shameless bump, but for a reason. In today's episode the Big Bird is going to talk about 'broken' flights, but not in the traditional manner of so called anchored flights. For the newbies, an anchored flight is when one of the people in it is 1 (one) tier lower than the other one. The aim is to make sure the pair doesn't get into battles where both are bottom tier. It's not the topic this time though, because this is the quickstart guide.

 

While doing daily missions in period 1 and period 2, I do encounter peculiar 'broken' flights regularly. Usually it's a pair of planes with a difference of at least 2 tiers between them. Most commonly it is a t2+t4, or t3+t5 (and I guess it stops happening at higher tiers, when folks learn the folly of their ways). I've seen even bigger silliness, with t7 in flight with a t2. Now, some careless fun by veterans aside (like trying to rocket a 262 with I-15, as example), I can see two reasons some of newer players attempt that. One of them is to quickly show the game to a pal, as a sort of a guided tour. The other could be an attempt to 'powerlevel' someone. Both ideas are totally flawed, and here's why.

 

Inasmuch as this game has some similarities with WoT and WoWS, MM is fundamentaly different in regard to tiers. For the other titles 2 tier difference is the normal MM bracket, this one however has one tier difference as max. In WoWP in any battle you will be either top or bottom tier, and there's no middle tier. When considering flights, the highest tier in the flight is taken into account by MM script - so the battle will look for a bracket suitable for the top dog in a flight, disregarding the little brother. Consequently, when you attempt a difference of 2 or more tiers in your flight, you are basically dooming the lower tier guy/gal. If you mean to show someone the game, and you do it by non-standard rules (because yes, such broken flights can reasonably be reported for unfair gameplay, for reasons I'll give in a moment), you're exposing the lower tier to being mercilessly ganked. Sometimes it includes friendly fire by enraged team buddies. If you want to showcase the game in a relatively painless way, do it in the 'kosher' way, i.e. stick with max 1 tier difference. This will save you a lot of grief, and such a journey into WoWP might turn out to be a much more pleasant experience.

 

When 'powerlevelling' is considered, you are again mistaken. As far as we know, xp is hard-capped per tier of the plane; it has nothing to do with the tiers involved in battle, it counts only for the tier of the plane flown. A tier 2 plane will get exactly the same amount of xp by killing another tier 2 as it would get by killing a tier 10 plane (technically, a little more for the t10, since there's more hp to be taken - but then consider the chances...; the bonus xp/silver for a full kill however will be exactly the same). Moreover, since xp/silver earnings are tied to damage dealt, I find it very unlikely that a significantly lower tier will do anything substantial when thrown into a battle way over his paygrid. In other words, when fighting in relevant (max 1 tier difference) battle bracket, there's a far greater chance of dealing a lot of damage - thus earning decent (and relative for the tier) amount of xp and silver - than when outclassed by anything and everything on the map. What's more still, AA guns are also tiered, and they will always be of the top tier of planes in this battle; when a t6 AA guns start plonking at a t2 biplane, it's basically a matter of 2-3 hits to shred it, making it near impossible for the little guy to attempt anything relating to capturing a sector. Not to mention defence planes, which will be flying faster and higher than that little guy. Any 'powerleveling' attempt is best done by the book, in the regular MM bracket - otherwise it becomes counterproductive. Low tier plane gains absolutely NOTHING extra in terms of xp or silver when brought into a much higher tiered battle. There's no point, unless one wants to make one's own team hostile, and the red team start hunting one actively. Also, 'powerleveling' - if memory serves - is considered unfair gameplay and is subject to report and penalty.

 

Talking about 'unfair', it is unfair because of two things. One is trying to bypass the 'regular' progress; one is seriously gimping his/her own team by doing so. I know for a fact such flights were and are reported, though I do not know the consequences (vide WG policy regarding reporting and punishment). Reporting is the smaller evil usually, more severe is the lost time - as you are not gaining anything, and in fact you are gaining less than you would when doing it by the rules - and aggression/ganking from other players present in such battles. The uproar of a biplane shot down by a teammate is hilarious, given what I wrote above. You are bringing this onto yourself.

 

To cut the long story short then - don't try to break the rules of matchmaking, because it will end up poorly. To understand and utilize the anchored flight bs, you need to learn something about the game first - which you won't, trying to bend the rules so early and so ineffectively. And if you feel like you really have to show your t2 or t3 buddy what jet planes battle looks like, at least have the decency to tell your teammates about it, k?

 

a small and crude pictorial example of what I'm talking about:

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by apartclassic, 30 June 2020 - 05:57 PM.

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https://i.imgur.com/SdxyYWh.jpg






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