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Complete loss of flight control in game


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Ziptop #1 Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:28 PM

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I've experienced this a couple of times now.

 

Complete loss of all control input during a battle. (possibly happening after re-spawn, on this occasion that is exactly when it happened)

Post battle check in settings, everything fine. 

Net-stats at the time looked fine also. 

I didn't have long enough in game to get the settings open to check during battle. 



apartclassic #2 Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:44 PM

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I remember having this one very rarely. If you have the point of view of another plane (not yours) after respawn, double Enter to fix. If however it's your plane, but is not reacting to your input, sometimes it may be stuck in chat (so Enter once to get out of chat), but that's hit-and-miss; best way is to Alt-F4 and relog, you will load back into the battle. You may however log back into the 'pro-mode' bug, with no markers at all, no timer, no cap indicators, no nothing... Welcome to WoWP...

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 


GonerNL #3 Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:41 PM

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Joystick or mouse/keyboard ?

Roland_The_Sniper #4 Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:57 PM

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I play with a joystick and in that case double escape is the solution for me.

Ziptop #5 Posted 03 August 2020 - 08:43 PM

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This was with Joystick, it was complete loss of control and nothing I could do would restore any control. 

Keyboard did work though, I was able to Esc and open the settings menu. I was also able to type a message in chat and got a response that somebody else had experienced same or similar. 

 

Was towards the end of the battle though so I didn't get much time in the menu before battle ended.



Faeltercarb #6 Posted 15 August 2020 - 11:40 AM

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I'm getting this too.  Either the plane feels like a 50000 ton cargo ship or the throttle seems stuck in the off position.

 

There is an issue apparently running Joystick Gremlin software.  WoWP triggers an infinite loop or something where Joystick Gremlin and WoWP start using extremely high CPU.  After a lot of exiting WoWP and restarting everything again several or many times the issue eventually goes away.

 

Joystick Gremlin seems to be needed to make WoWP see a HOTAS setup.  It presents a single virtual USB joystick to WoWP since apparently WoWP does not look for all appropriate USB controllers.



GonerNL #7 Posted 15 August 2020 - 07:32 PM

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Using a Thrustmaster T.16000 and no problems at all .. complete loss of control I last had with the infamous Holidays joystick bug of 2018 ...

Faeltercarb #8 Posted 16 August 2020 - 06:42 AM

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Is the T.16000 an integrated unit with a single USB connector?

GonerNL #9 Posted 16 August 2020 - 10:51 AM

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Integrated ?

It's a stick with loads of buttons, a throttle and rudder function.

 

yes, one USB connector.


Edited by GonerNL, 16 August 2020 - 10:52 AM.


Ziptop #10 Posted 16 August 2020 - 06:29 PM

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View PostFaeltercarb, on 15 August 2020 - 12:40 PM, said:

I'm getting this too.  Either the plane feels like a 50000 ton cargo ship or the throttle seems stuck in the off position.

 

There is an issue apparently running Joystick Gremlin software.  WoWP triggers an infinite loop or something where Joystick Gremlin and WoWP start using extremely high CPU.  After a lot of exiting WoWP and restarting everything again several or many times the issue eventually goes away.

 

Joystick Gremlin seems to be needed to make WoWP see a HOTAS setup.  It presents a single virtual USB joystick to WoWP since apparently WoWP does not look for all appropriate USB controllers.

 

Lot's of interesting things to be said about advanced hardware/HOTAS set up and WoWP. I might actually write a dedicated post about it at some point. 

 

Not sure what kit you are using but are there manufacturer softwares that would do the job rather than Joystick Gremlin and vJoy? (as these add another layer of complexity to an already muddy soup when we are talking about WoWP)

 

I'm running Virpil kit and I tried to do some stuff with vJoy/Joystick Gremlin/Universal Control Mapper but while more flexible across a range of different games (load profile, good to go) I couldn't get them to do what I needed them to do in order to make the kit play nice with WoWP.

In the end I resorted to manufacturer software and created profiles in that software which are dedicated to WoWP. - I had to completely inhibit some Axes and set some Axis ID's (logical) to ones that the game would be happy understanding. 

 

There may actually be more stuff you can do through playing with the games input config file but I have only just started experimenting with this and like I said...a whole new thread might be required....

 

Either way, the loss of control I experienced felt more like a network related thing. I have experienced it once more recently and had enough time to open the settings and check the input axes - these were working! By the time I backed out of that menu I was half way across the map but I had control back.

So, a wierd glitch to be sure, possibly network related, possibly something else....but very rare indeed.


Edited by Ziptop, 16 August 2020 - 06:34 PM.


Faeltercarb #11 Posted 16 August 2020 - 07:47 PM

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Okay.  At the moment I have a Virpil Alpha Constellation and Warbird base on order that should be delivered soon.  So I'm using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro in the meantime with a Virpil MongoosT-50 CM 2 throttle.  Sure, using the Extreme 3D Pro alone is possible but it means remapping all of the controls and, interestingly, everything feels so much better and more responsive going through the Joystick Gremlin software. I've pruned down buttons that don't make sense or add value and maybe that helps the response.

 

But my understanding is that the Virpil Warbird base cannot be piugged into the throttle or vice versa to eliminate the double USB connectors.   And neither does Virpil software give you any such options.   So Joystick Gremlin may be a necessary addition.

 



Faeltercarb #12 Posted 16 August 2020 - 08:14 PM

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P.S.  I see this happening very consistently between 3:00 AM and 5:00 AM Central European time.  One side effect of the summers in the far North is that the sun rises very early and can make it difficult to sleep :)

 

Network traffic should be very, very low then.  So I suspect some kind of pre-boot conditions are set in motion on the WoWP servers leading to the problem I encounter.


Edited by Faeltercarb, 16 August 2020 - 08:18 PM.


dreambill #13 Posted 17 August 2020 - 02:58 PM

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From time to time I loose my logitech 3D pro too. Only solution to restart the game. :(

Ziptop #14 Posted 17 August 2020 - 06:24 PM

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View PostFaeltercarb, on 16 August 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

Okay.  At the moment I have a Virpil Alpha Constellation and Warbird base on order that should be delivered soon.  So I'm using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro in the meantime with a Virpil MongoosT-50 CM 2 throttle.  Sure, using the Extreme 3D Pro alone is possible but it means remapping all of the controls and, interestingly, everything feels so much better and more responsive going through the Joystick Gremlin software. I've pruned down buttons that don't make sense or add value and maybe that helps the response.

 

But my understanding is that the Virpil Warbird base cannot be piugged into the throttle or vice versa to eliminate the double USB connectors.   And neither does Virpil software give you any such options.   So Joystick Gremlin may be a necessary addition.

 

Ok, i am starting to really see the need for a dedicated thread for this but to get you started....

 

WoWP is an old game and it does not seem to handle axes (and sometimes buttons) with the same designation but on different controllers as well as other games. (IL-2 for example handles this just fine.)

 

What I found with vJoy/Gremlin etc was that I could not inhibit axes and even if I thought they were inhibited the game would still detect them which might lead to double input. 

So, on your CM2 throttle there you have loads of axes and the game might be translating the trim lever axis as rudder input (for example) 

 

What I did was create a "default" profile (export it and save it somewhere safe.)

Then I created a WoWP profile where I've actually set the UD of all the extra axes that have non-use in WoWP to "service" in the Virpil software. (I exported this too with a sensible name.) 

You will have to do something similar with the Constellation Alpha as the "brake lever" is designated a slider in its default profile I think and that conflicts with throttle position. I like to use the lever for stuff so I changed it to an axis ID that the game has no conflicts with - not in front of main rig right now so I can't tell you what any of these settings were for sure but hopefully you get the picture. 

 

I'm guessing you have overcome the 32 button limitation on the throttle by splitting that into multiple devices in Gremlin? - I did this in Virpil software also but they will temporarily remove support for it until they figure a better way to handle that. (Can't remember what version I'm using, not too old and still supports the device split.) 

 

Alpha on the WarBRD with regular springs and AviSim soft centre has quite a pull at the extremes. I measured 1kg at full deflection. This is great for more realistic simulation where throwing the stick around madly will stall you out etc but WoWP is a bit more arcade than that. I've got some cosmosim cams on order and I'm scoping around for lighter custom springs - and that truly is the strength of kit at this end of the market...it's highly customisable.

That said, I'm still very fond of my old T-50 and T-50 base. (original and still going strong) which I have tuned to very light throw forces indeed and the simpler array of input buttons actually was just right for simpler games like WOWP. 

I will get around to throwing together some sort of dedicated post about all this at some point but wierdly, for the first time in months I have a project away from home so I'm out travelling all week and playing from a laptop on hotel WiFi with my old T-16000 whenever that is possible...



Ziptop #15 Posted 17 August 2020 - 06:35 PM

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Oh, also I've set a virtual detente in the Virpil software. (The manual and also Shadowze's tutorials show how to do this. 

Mine is set to 95% thrust or something until I hit the button that activates the detente and then that takes me to 100% With some playing around in the game settings with the boost threshold I can then have the throttle at max physical position and never use the boost until I hit this button. 

I also have a different button on the throttle handle dedicated to activate boost for an extra bit of control in dogfights. Actually I've used a hat for this so "forward" is boost and "backwards" is airbrake, with flaps on a different button under my thumb. The dedicated throttle and this sort of set up has really made a nice difference to the way I can control my speed in game.



Faeltercarb #16 Posted 23 August 2020 - 11:15 AM

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Thanks for the ideas!   I also found yesterday that the Logitech Extreme 3D throttle did not get disabled.  Since it is phase reversed in comparison to the Virpil throttle and I tended to keep it in middle or full on position WoWP was inserting off throttle whenever the Virpil throttle wasn't sending information.

 

I also needed to click on the Virpil throttle axis in the Virpli software and turn smoothing to 8x (the max value).  That mostly stops it from sending out a huge amount of data because the internal DAC is so sensitive that the last couple of bits toggle on and off always anytime the Virpil throttle is not full on or off.   I think that has eliminated most of the issues I'm seeing.  I've also mapped all button clicks to keyboard characters.  The CPU and power usage for Joystick Gremlin is now very much lower.

 

The controls still go completely bad now and then though usually doing that about a minute into the game.



Ziptop #17 Posted 23 August 2020 - 03:14 PM

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View PostFaeltercarb, on 23 August 2020 - 12:15 PM, said:

I also needed to click on the Virpil throttle axis in the Virpli software and turn smoothing to 8x (the max value).  

Instead of smoothing try dynamic deadzone. This will achieve the same thing by reducing the huge amount of data traffic but it won't need as extreme a setting. I think I've managed to get away with a Dynamic Deadzone setting of 2. 

You can test the various settings in DIView - you should see a reduction in input reports as you move the various axes.

 

Yup, I've just checked. My smoothing is x2 (which I think is default?) and my Dynamic Deadzone is also x2

(I have same Dyn Deadzone setting for the Alpha grip on WarBRD base. Can't remember what I had for the T50 base as it's not plugged in right now but it was probably something similar) 

 

Doing this does indeed reduce the data traffic which in turn seems to stop conflict with other input devices and/or input getting missed by the game (trigger input for example)

 

Maybe I've mentioned it before, it's worth noting again. The "Brake Lever" on the Alpha grip defaults as a "Slider" this could conflict with your throttle input - I have changed mine to Z-Axis which does not conflict with anything else in WoWP. 

 

My active axes for WOWP =

Throttle - Both sides of split throttle ID = Slider (They are linked and have a virtual detente set up.) - all other axes disabled. 

Rudder Pedals - rZ

Alpha/WarBRD -

Pitch = Y, Roll = X, Brake Lever Axis = Z, Analog Joy (not used in WoWP, not recognised) rX & rY

 

I have not bothered setting up one of the hat switches as a PoV as I use TrackIR and Mouse Emulator for free look 

 

 


Edited by Ziptop, 24 August 2020 - 01:22 AM.





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