75 replies to this topic

[Useless_Old_Git]

I HAVE NEVER EVER been in a match with equal or superior numbers of specialist planes.

That is NEVER,NOT ONCE.

Is WG not capable of fairness,most games my team is down 2 if lucky 1.

But lately there have been too many games where its 3 or 4 to 0.If the game see's 4 planes and can't figure out 2v2

is fair it puts all 4 on the opposite team whats the point of trying.

My last games where 4-0,4-0,3-1,3-0,4-0

Wouldnt it be nice just for once to have the superior numbers in specialist planes...and yes i know jus because the plane is specced

doesnt mean the player is awesome,but really the MM needs to at least try to be fair.

[CheefCoach]

If they program MM to be fair, it would never find those fair matches. It would happen one of those two things:

1. Queue would be so long that most of players would quit,

or

2. It would default to battles against bots in every battle, and server would get overburden and start to crack, and bug and than most people would quit. 

 

WoWP is like dogma. You either accept it in full or reject it, but there is no changing it. 

[0berhessen]

Sorry its not the matchmaking, you are flying too many tier 4/5/6.

Really learn the game basics on Tier 1-3 then slowly move on to Tier 4.

Believe me, the game becomes different in Tier 4 and above.

Good luck further

[Useless_Old_Git]

So the game can't figure out 2v2 is fair and 4-0 isn't and thats ok mm.

I appreciate your comment but what players are going to continue trying when you are constantly playing against the system.

Plus carrying on in tiers1,2 and 3 full of sealclubbers who have many thousands of games,thats fun too.

I used to think games were meant to be fun,but i must be too old,games seem designed to frustrate players these days.

This game isnt going to attract many players that stick around if its a constant matter of banging your head against a wall.

[0berhessen]

Useless_Old_Git, on 25 November 2020 - 11:29 AM, said:

So the game can't figure out 2v2 is fair and 4-0 isn't and thats ok mm.

I appreciate your comment but what players are going to continue trying when you are constantly playing against the system.

Plus carrying on in tiers1,2 and 3 full of sealclubbers who have many thousands of games,thats fun too.

I used to think games were meant to be fun,but i must be too old,games seem designed to frustrate players these days.

This game isnt going to attract many players that stick around if its a constant matter of banging your head against a wall.

Well sealclubbers are a problem, thats true.

But without knowing the game basics it will be even harder in higher Tiers.

You are doing good so far, your winrate is about 48%.

The chance of getting the sealclubbers in your team is maybe around 50% too. So sometimes they make you loose, sometimes they make you win.

Train your Pilots, improve your skills, look where and what to attack first, avoid the red furballs. Thats in short terms all i can recommend to do.

Once you are able to improve the aircraft to Specialist, its always worth it, as well as improve and calibrate the equipment.

The Forum is full of hints and Tactics, if you have further questions don´t hesitate to ask.

[GonerNL]

U_O_G is absolutely right.

It has nothing to do with lower tiers, matchmaking is just a useless piece of crapola. It's even worse on the CIS server where there are even more human players than here. MM goes absolutely bonkers ; I've been in battles with 6 (SIX!) specialists in one team and zero on the other. And that also happens on tier V, VI, VII ... 

It's also very bad at balancing (human) bombers vs GA and heavies vs multis/lights.

The only thing it can handle are all bot battles.

 

And the bad part is that most of the time I'm in the team with fewest specs ... just bad luck, I guess.

Edited by GonerNL, 25 November 2020 - 12:32 PM.

[maxram68]

0berhessen, on 25 November 2020 - 01:02 PM, said:

Well sealclubbers are a problem, thats true.

But without knowing the game basics it will be even harder in higher Tiers.

You are doing good so far, your winrate is about 48%.

The chance of getting the sealclubbers in your team is maybe around 50% too. So sometimes they make you loose, sometimes they make you win.

Train your Pilots, improve your skills, look where and what to attack first, avoid the red furballs. Thats in short terms all i can recommend to do.

Once you are able to improve the aircraft to Specialist, its always worth it, as well as improve and calibrate the equipment.

The Forum is full of hints and Tactics, if you have further questions don´t hesitate to ask.

 

Some very good recommendations, IMHO.

 

I'll only add: join a clan and/or team up with someone capable of giving advice, plus - perhaps - pointing out what went good/bad during a battle. 

 

[blindfoId]

Matchmaking does not take into account aircraft configuration. 

[GonerNL]

MM also doesn't take into account light fighters, multi-roles and heavy fighters ; for MM it's all "fighters" or PvP ... so you might end up in a team with only light fighters and nothing to chase the bombers.

Or a team with only (slow) GA and the other team has a couple of (fast) bombers who beat you to every target on the map. Because to MM they're all PvE ...

 

Working as intended ... 

 

 

3 human GA and 1 bot bomber vs 3 human bombers and 1 bot GA ... guess who won ?? 

(no prizes for correct answers)

Funny thing that all 3 GA outscored the bombers, but they still won by a wide margin ... it simply took us too long to re-take sectors.

 

Edited by GonerNL, 25 November 2020 - 02:33 PM.

[RoyalFlyingCorps]

At the risk of repeating myself, we all know the match making doesn't take any account of specialisation and it doesn't pair human players in bombers and GAAs.  Nothing has changed in years and, given the current situation, it's likely it won't change any time soon.  You either suck it up or do something else.

 

[apartclassic]

One - MM had been discussed over and over, the fact that it (as blindfold wrote) does not take configuration into account is 'old'. Two - and that has been discussed over and over as well - demonizing specialization is still a thing, I see. At the end of the day it's about what type of plane you are flying, and how are you flying it. In most cases specialization matters only in 1v1 of the same type plane, the exception being some bombers (which after speccing and reload time reduction due to equipment, as well as reargunner buff due to equipment, become far too potent).

It's not MM, nor equipment, that is at fault. It always comes down to 'l2p' and 'git gud', no matter how one tries to shift the blame.

[CheefCoach]

Specialization won't necessarily help you win more battles, but it will help you win more medals. But everybody can spec at least one plane, and players that fly more will spec more planes. Specialization is reward by the game to the players who invest their playing hours into it. That is fair in my opinion. 

 

Rear gun buff isn't as influential, but the bomb reload gear will give player 50% more ordinance at max specialization. That is like you bring 1,5 specialized plane. There are people in this forum that expect to destroy attack plane or bomber that is flown by human and lose almost no hit points in process. That is unfair to attack/bomber player and unrealistic. In mode as conquest mode, this types of planes are bit more influential than they should have been, but that is systematic problem of the mode. 

 

When we are talking about seal-clubbers in low tiers, most of them aren't. Daily mission completion requires for players to play in period I as well, and that is bringing a lot of experience players into lower tiers. This is thing that need to be addressed by developers. Merge those periods already!

[GonerNL]

CheefCoach, on 25 November 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

Specialization is reward by the game to the players who invest their playing hours into it. That is fair in my opinion. 

 

I'm not saying specialization is unfair. I'm not even saying that specced planes/players are better than others.

What I am saying is that 6 specialized planes in 1 team and none in the other is ridiculous ...  and unfair.

Edited by GonerNL, 25 November 2020 - 03:56 PM.

[hardy9z9]

I have been following the entries in the WoWp forums for several years now. I can't count how often a player complained about the matchmaker. It is quite tiring and doesn't bring any new approaches in the meantime.
The Matchmaker - as we have it - will give someone as much advantage as disadvantage on a statistically larger number of battles.
Blaming MM for a lost game by always looking at MM is only distracting from the real reason. And here we are again at L2P.
The perfect MM should
- always let me fly as a high-Tier
- only give me opponents who have as much flying experience on my plane as I have
- only give me opponents that have the same pilot skills as me
- produce the teams with absolutely "fair" selected pilots on both sides
- only give me opponents who have configured their aircraft exactly like me
  (specialization, accessories, equipment and everything else that needs to be considered...)
- send me only on maps, on which I can make many points with my chosen aircraft
- the list can be completed even further !
Let's not even mention which tolerance ranges for the individual points would be acceptable for everyone, guys - that would mean that we would always get an all-bot-match, because the time until such a perfect constellation would be found would be unacceptable for everyone.
WG cannot program the perfect matchmaker, and even if it could, someone would still complain about an imbalance because he lost a game without permission ....

And don't forget: if we had a perfect MM we would not have a final excuse for our failure anymore !!! 

Edited by hardy9z9, 25 November 2020 - 05:57 PM.

[jakub_czyli_ja]

CheefCoach, on 25 November 2020 - 09:31 AM, said:

If they program MM to be fair, it would never find those fair matches. It would happen one of those two things:

1. Queue would be so long that most of players would quit,

or

2. It would default to battles against bots in every battle, and server would get overburden and start to crack, and bug and than most people would quit. 

 

WoWP is like dogma. You either accept it in full or reject it, but there is no changing it. 

Yeah, right.

There are 4 specialized planes in queue, and 4 not specialized. Can you tell the odds that  all specialized will land on same side?

Spoiler

0 vs 4 - 1/8th

1 vs 3 - 1/2nd

2 vs 2 - 3 / 8 th

So no, balancing specialized planes wouldn't mean that waiting times would be too long or there would be only battles against bots.

 

OTOH there are more chances for uneven match, but still player should have equal chances to land on one or the other side.

 

OTOH#2 - specialization is a bit overrated. Specialized plane may be more deadly or harder to kill, but I've seen a number of specialized planes that seem to be specialized by tokens or pure time spent on it, not by owner' skill.

[GonerNL]

hardy9z9, on 25 November 2020 - 06:39 PM, said:

- the list can be completed even further !

 

But nobody asked for that ...    you mention/invent points nobody here put forward ?!

We (some of us) only want an even distribution of specialists and plane types, which definitely should not give longer queue times. That's all ..

I don't mind failing or losing as long as it is in a balanced battle. Now I sometimes feel like playing with the 9th team of the local amateurs against Barcelona.

 

Edited by GonerNL, 25 November 2020 - 07:47 PM.

[hardy9z9]

GonerNL, on 25 November 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:

 

But nobody asked for that ...    you mention/invent points nobody here put forward ?!

We (some of us) only want an even distribution of specialists and plane types, which definitely should not give longer queue times. That's all ..

I don't mind failing or losing as long as it is in a balanced battle. Now I sometimes feel like playing with the 9th team of the local amateurs against Barcelona.

 

Sorry - my mistake!
Of course you are all absolutely right. The unequal distribution of specialized airplanes must be changed very quickly. It can't be that difficult to count how many are waiting and distribute them equally between the two teams.
Then you can also take the opportunity to repair the equal distribution of aircraft groups per team and make sure that the beginners don't have to compete against the seal-clubbers.
If I have forgotten anything or have mixed up the wrong order of importance, then it is my fault again.
Write down again here what the changes to the Machtmaker should be and in what order.
Thanks!

[GonerNL]

hardy9z9, on 25 November 2020 - 09:15 PM, said:

Write down again here what the changes to the Machtmaker should be and in what order.
 

 

Sorry, I'm not doing lists ... just 2 things that I already mentioned ad nauseam. But feel free to make lists, you're clearly very good at it.

[hardy9z9]

GonerNL, on 25 November 2020 - 10:27 PM, said:

 

Sorry, I'm not doing lists ... just 2 things that I already mentioned ad nauseam. But feel free to make lists, you're clearly very good at it.

After all, a (further) list is not necessary if these two points of injustice have been corrected. Then the team formation is balanced and everything is fine. I have understood that now.
Also by the way - don't you think it's pretty unfair to have apartclassic as your opponent five times in a row?

[GonerNL]

hardy9z9, on 25 November 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

Also by the way - don't you think it's pretty unfair to have apartclassic as your opponent five times in a row?

 

What are the chances of that ?    But feel free to put it on your list.

 

What I do experience is battles with already mentioned unbalances. And having those 6 specialists on your team is just as terrible as the other way around ; roflstomps and less points, exp etc ...