45 replies to this topic

[apartclassic]

Zen has a good point here. Veterans who already spent their money on prems and are unlikely to spend more - having 'everything' already - or players who vow not to spend a dime on the game are not exactly the kind of client any company has at heart. We may dislike it, but that's business. High turnaround of players who buy premium items is what benefits the company most. This can have a thicker or thinner layer of candy on it, but all boils down to the group that give company money for their product. You probably know well enough that nothing is 'for free' on the internet; time we veterans spend in WoWP is only a very distant factor for WG (as in, the more time we spend here, the less we do on other games/products/companies, thus giving WG some king of competitive edge on the market) - the real grease for this machine is selling in-game items for real money. That's why we are seeing all the bundles in premium shop, that's why we have a steady trickle of 'new' premium planes, that's why there is gold as special currency in this game. It's only natural for Victor to sit down with people from the accountant department, rather than with Community Managers or the like - if the title earns money, it's good, if not, they will be looking for ways to monetize it better. You know the drill, no point in me dwelling on it.

 

Personally I accept this, because there is no other choice (other than quitting the game alltogether). I know I am not the focal point for WG, and stopped being such quite some time ago (though there will still be offers that are supposed to squeeze some more money out of me and other veterans). However, when it comes to development plans or changes to game's mechanics, it is rather inevitable that they will be tailored to grab the attention of new players/customers, then make them buy stuff, before they too move on; game is supposed to keep them interested long enough to maximize the profit. Solutions like bots and respawn, for us are quality of life changes, but for the company they serve the purpose of keeping a paying playerbase at some reasonable level. Having the game already demoted to last priority of the trio, it's no wonder for me that whatever effort there is put into WoWP, is mostly centered around 'streamlining'. The other business model to ensure a steady income, thus facilitating keeping a bigger staff working on content etc, is monthly subscription model - and we all know how did that go for lots of titles. We have a 'f2p' model, with all the pros and cons; had the game been a bigger success, had there been a bigger paying playerbase, we would probably be in quite a different point right now. As it is, with relatively low population, there is only so much we can both ask for, and expect from the company. This isn't a charity, neither it is an indy title made by a group of aviation history buffs.

Edited by apartclassic, 01 January 2021 - 08:29 PM.

[Gratius]

apartclassic, on 01 January 2021 - 08:27 PM, said:

Zen has a good point here. Veterans who already spent their money on prems and are unlikely to spend more - having 'everything' already - or players who vow not to spend a dime on the game are not exactly the kind of client any company has at heart. We may dislike it, but that's business. High turnaround of players who buy premium items is what benefits the company most.

So, according to your description, WG's basic business model looks like this - join our community, spend as much money as you can and once you're not willing to pay anymore, GTFO.....

 

If that's the case, why should I, as a client, have any respect for such company? If they want a steady source of income, there's simpler and far more effective way to generate it - monthly or yearly subscriptions. They could still attract new players while in the same time appreciate those they already have. After all, it's not their most popular franchise, therefore every active player is quite valuable. IMHO the only thing WG is achieving here is chopping a branch they're sitting on.

Edited by Gratius, 01 January 2021 - 09:09 PM.

[apartclassic]

Gratius, on 01 January 2021 - 09:08 PM, said:

So, according to your description, WG's basic business model looks like this - join our community, spend as much money as you can and once you're not willing to pay anymore, GTFO.....

 

If that's the case, why should I, as a client, have any respect for such company? If they want a steady source of income, there's simpler and far more effective way to generate it - monthly or yearly subscriptions. They could still attract new players while in the same time appreciate those they already have. After all, it's not their most popular franchise, therefore every active player is quite valuable. IMHO the only thing WG is achieving here is chopping a branch they're sitting on.

 

You are basically right. And it's not WG, it's common market practice everywhere - as long as you're paying, we love you, the moment you stop paying, we forget you. And obviously, judging by the very small marketing effort put, WG does not want your respect, it's money they (like every single competitive company on the market) are after. I am not writing this to belittle WG in any way, this 'sound business practice' is so ever-present it has lost any qualifying value long time ago; I think I'm merely stating facts. The only value this title has to WG is economical - it's either making money or not; if not, depending on loss margin, it will be sustained (to remain in company's portfolio as part of the trio) or shut down without remorse.

 

Welcome to capitalism, mate. That's how the world rolls in 21st century.

[RoyalFlyingCorps]

Gratius, on 01 January 2021 - 06:02 PM, said:

 [F]eatures like unlimited respawns and fast tier progress (Levlos mentioned that above) aren't exactly a good incentive for a new player to learn how to play tactically, don't you think?

 

Respawns were a good solution to the serious problem of waiting minutes for a game, then being destroyed and out of the game the moment you approached your first sector.  There is no "fast" tier progress outside of the usual WG mechanics; not even something like World Of Tanks' blueprints.  These are good things, don't you think?

Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 02 January 2021 - 07:29 AM.

[levlos]

I personally love the respawns !

 

It lowers the frustration, adds some tactical layer and allows high tier bombers to completely dominate tier X...oh wait, no, that's not good in this case. More seriously, in WoT, the single respawn is the mother of all problems (the uncles being the -2 +2 matchmaking, the unbalanced tanks and the lousy map design).

 

As for players flying in tiers completely above their experience, i'd say that going up tiers is still too easy -buying tier v and above premiums should be locked until the player achieves a suitable XP per sortie, I'd say. But that does not make sense economically, does it ?

[Gratius]

RoyalFlyingCorps, on 02 January 2021 - 07:29 AM, said:

 

Respawns were a good solution to the serious problem of waiting minutes for a game, then being destroyed and out of the game the moment you approached your first sector.  There is no "fast" tier progress outside of the usual WG mechanics; not even something like World Of Tanks' blueprints.  These are good things, don't you think?

Sure, a lot of new players got wrecked time and time again while charging at each other. So what? After a while you've had only 2 options left,- either curse the game and quit or come to sensible conclusion that you aren't doing everything right. Those who were easy to discourage just left the game and more persistent ones started to learn how to avoid dying in first 20-30 sec of every match.

These days, with unlimited respawns,  there;s no need for learning or to tactical thinking on even basic level, you can just make one dumb mistake after another but that doesn't matter at all since you'll be back in the game in no time. Limiting spawns to 3-5 per match would be far better choice but I guess mindless brawls over central points are considered  a "streamlined gameplay" now.

[RoyalFlyingCorps]

Limited respawns per player may be a worthwhile idea.

 

[FotisK2000]

RoyalFlyingCorps, on 02 January 2021 - 06:11 PM, said:

Limited respawns per player may be a worthwhile idea.

 

I consider respawns one of the worst ideas in 2.0 amongst others. I do not understand what purpose it serves. Apart from making players reckless. They do any old nonsense knowing they can get back in the game, most pay no attention, ram u just for the hell of it, suicide because they can to name just a few downsides. There is also the case where you air combat with someone fairly, you win one on one after a tough dog fight and your health has been reduced to perhaps 20%. what happens next 95% of the time? The bloke you have just killed returns while you are engaged elsewhere and gets revenge from behind. And then u return to do the same...and that's how the game progresses. What a great idea!!! Respawn helps from waiting minutes for a game??????????? What???? When did this ever happen to you since bots were introduced back in 1.9? You fight you die and join a new game in less than 2 minutes....only a little wiser. Something that unfortunately does not happen now with the majority of players. Respawn??? A very bad idea. That's my opinion anyway.

[zen_monk_]

Two million applicants for Beta, that was a world record.

 

I was in a WoT clan, all 100 of us came. 98 left resigned, with "what? to wait 15 minutes for battle only to be killed, and then staring at the screen for 10 minutes for a battle to end so I will repeat that 20 minutes of staring at the screen?" Think for it for a moment: two f *** million avid, eager gamers came and all two million left stating the inability to be active in a game more as a reason. Only several thousand stayed. Out of two million!

 

Respawning was the best idea ever, only implemented 6 years too late to make any difference.

 

 

[RoyalFlyingCorps]

Having thought about it, I suspect limiting or eliminating respawns would make very little difference to player behaviour in the game.  Look at World Of Tanks (WoT from now on) where destruction of a vehicle brings its game to an end.  Yet, despite this disincentive, even at the top tiers there is a vast number of players who have never learned how to play the game effectively.  In other words, losing one's tank and therefore being eliminated from a game has not encouraged these players to learn how to play well.  Instead, it has produced two foolish behaviours, the so-called "YOLOing" where a player rushes headlong at the enemy team and, more commonly, avoiding engagement with the enemy team by "red line camping", that is, sitting at the back of the map in the hope of getting a shot or two at an advancing enemy tank without being spotted.

I see no reason why World Of Warplanes (WoWP) players would, unlike their WoT counterparts, suddenly learn to play more wisely if upon destruction of their aircraft they were eliminated from a game.  Since there's no equivalent of "red line camping" in the game, they will continue to madly rush for and die upon the airfield on a map with two missile bases.  I believe many people have no interest in putting in the time to learn how to play the game well.  Rather, they are looking for a little bit of distraction via the action the game provides and don't really care whether they win or lose provided they have a bit of fun.

 

Outside of the game, limiting or eliminating respawns would likely have the effect Zen describes, even if battle times are relatively short owing to the presence of bots.  People would stop playing the game, since there's a limit to the patience even of enthusiastic "can't learn, won't learn" incompetents.

 

Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 03 January 2021 - 11:40 AM.

[FotisK2000]

zen_monk_, on 02 January 2021 - 09:19 PM, said:

Two million applicants for Beta, that was a world record.

 

I was in a WoT clan, all 100 of us came. 98 left resigned, with "what? to wait 15 minutes for battle only to be killed, and then staring at the screen for 10 minutes for a battle to end so I will repeat that 20 minutes of staring at the screen?" Think for it for a moment: two f *** million avid, eager gamers came and all two million left stating the inability to be active in a game more as a reason. Only several thousand stayed. Out of two million!

 

Respawning was the best idea ever, only implemented 6 years too late to make any difference.

 

 

Wow defending respawn with such passion...was it your idea monk? Let me repeat one more time respawn in my opinion creates erratic pilots. And as for the waiting time, I for one never had 10 minutes of waiting time even at 4 am waiting for 1 player but I suppose some may have, was eliminated with bots. I cant understand why you are stubbornly persisting with that argument. Respawn has no major role in queues in my opinion, bots do.

[RoyalFlyingCorps]

FotisK2000, on 03 January 2021 - 04:28 PM, said:

 Let me repeat one more time respawn in my opinion creates erratic pilots.

 

So let me concisely reprise my preceding post; no, I don't believe it does.  The overwhelming evidence of poor play in World Of Tanks even at high tiers shows that many people will stick to bad habits rather than improve their play.

Edited by RoyalFlyingCorps, 03 January 2021 - 05:31 PM.

[zen_monk_]

FotisK2000, on 03 January 2021 - 05:28 PM, said:

Wow defending respawn with such passion...

 

Nah nah, there was no passion in my post, only the brutal power of arguments.

 

They do hit hard, though, so it might feel overpowering when they crush one's repeated fallacies.

[FotisK2000]

zen_monk_, on 03 January 2021 - 05:44 PM, said:

 

Nah nah, there was no passion in my post, only the brutal power of arguments.

 

They do hit hard, though, so it might feel overpowering when they crush one's repeated fallacies.

Power of argument...that respawn helps with queue time....and you want me to take that as a serious argument...ok bb

[FotisK2000]

RoyalFlyingCorps, on 03 January 2021 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

So let me concisely reprise my preceding post; no, I don't believe it does.  The overwhelming evidence of poor play in World Of Tanks even at high tiers shows that many people will stick to bad habits rather than improve their play.

I believe that when one knows that he is out of the game when killed he is much more careful. That is my experience from 1.9. Everybody did the best they could not to get killed whether that had to do with tactics, protecting wingman and so on. That is how I learned playing. Respawn is a good idea for 10-year-olds. Again this is my personal opinion.

Edited by FotisK2000, 03 January 2021 - 09:00 PM.

[zen_monk_]

FotisK2000, on 03 January 2021 - 09:50 PM, said:

Power of argument...that respawn helps with queue time....and you want me to take that as a serious argument...ok bb

 

If you think that's what I said, it explains why you can't understand what and why happened to the game.

Edited by zen_monk_, 03 January 2021 - 09:43 PM.

[RoyalFlyingCorps]

FotisK2000, on 03 January 2021 - 08:55 PM, said:

I believe that when one knows that he is out of the game when killed he is much more careful.

 

I don't.

[blindfoId]

Hi Gratius,

 

1. There are no plans to change MM system in the near future.

 

2. As soon as UI issues are investigated and fix is prepared, the fix will be surely shipped, however we cannot give any ETA. Regarding pilot skills, they work correctly and that have been confirmed by the developers team and pilots. The problem is purely in displaying skill icon during the battle.

 

3.  We always announce all planes that are introduced to the game in the patchotes. At the moment, the list of aircraft for 2021 is still being discucced. 

 

4. No, there are no plans to add fundamentally new maps.

 

5. As it's been announced earlier it's highly unlikely that France, Italy or China will get their own tech trees. Currently we have only premium warbirds united into "European nation", and there are no plans to introduce other tech trees in the near future.

[Finitan]

Unfortunately not so many good news from player point of view (no new map, no new tech tree), but by the way thank you @blindfold to toke some minutes to wrote an answer.

[Gratius]

blindfoId, on 04 January 2021 - 02:41 PM, said:

Hi Gratius,

 

1. There are no plans to change MM system in the near future.

 

2. As soon as UI issues are investigated and fix is prepared, the fix will be surely shipped, however we cannot give any ETA. Regarding pilot skills, they work correctly and that have been confirmed by the developers team and pilots. The problem is purely in displaying skill icon during the battle.

 

3.  We always announce all planes that are introduced to the game in the patchotes. At the moment, the list of aircraft for 2021 is still being discucced. 

 

4. No, there are no plans to add fundamentally new maps.

 

5. As it's been announced earlier it's highly unlikely that France, Italy or China will get their own tech trees. Currently we have only premium warbirds united into "European nation", and there are no plans to introduce other tech trees in the near future.

Thanks for your reply. I guess news could've been worse, nontheless the future doesn't look as bright as I hoped.