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are bots to much in control of winning a battle ?


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Woolfie_aka_paca_chatban #1 Posted 22 November 2021 - 11:05 PM

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just asking do you find bots helpful  in a losing battle or winning a game 

eg when you ask for tail cover do they help  or just say yes ??

are games to one sided when they cap ?

are they  to aggressive  eg you arrive at a base and get rammed before you get to kill anything even if you try to dodge ??

and is capping to important  to winning the game  any thoughts on the matter ?

i have done a few late night bots only games and got good scores (500 +cap points ) but lost  because my bots  can't  cap 

the other side gets and hold 3 out of 5 bases or  2 out of three 

and i find i cant get the bots to defend or attack a base when i ask them using the F keys is it me or is it in the programing ?

i know some of you will say its fair bot i am a noob when it come to programing  i don't even play with add on mods 

so what do you  think of the bots 

same as me  or do you have another  idea  (yep i am noob count's) :)



Xzanman #2 Posted 22 November 2021 - 11:52 PM

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I think the bots are programmed to allow the humans to be the hero's, therefore a team of bots will perform better than the bots on the side of a human. The human needs to make the difference. 

 I can't say I've ever had a battle with no human opponents, 99% of my playing time is at peak times.

 I have noticed however that bots are reluctant to cap bases where there are no humans. 

Humans should always be the deciding factor in a battle, the bots behaver rightly reflects this.

Problems of balance arrive when the types of plane's the humans are using are not equal on each team.



CheefCoach #3 Posted 23 November 2021 - 05:15 AM

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Bots are same for both sides on battle start. Sometimes bots have exceptionally good battles. Same as humans. 

Bots do help when ask for it. But it takes time for them to reach you, if you are far away and fly faster than them. 

At the end, it is the humans who determine who will win in at least 95% of the time. 


Nothing interesting to write. 

ArchangelThunderbird_GB_ #4 Posted 23 November 2021 - 01:34 PM

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View PostWoolfie_aka_paca_chatban, on 22 November 2021 - 11:05 PM, said:

are they  to aggressive  eg you arrive at a base and get rammed before you get to kill anything even if you try to dodge ??

and is capping to important  to winning the game  any thoughts on the matter ?

The bots do have an unfair advantage in collisions, IMO. For example, you still usually get killed, even if you swerve soon enough to avoid the collision... and the enemy plane usually isn't even scratched, which is ridiculous. In any real life head-on collision, both planes would be destroyed in nearly all cases. But also, I'm still trying to figure out why I find myself on the losing side, much more often than not. It's not due to lack of skill on my part; it's something else - and it makes me lose interest, fast. I'd quite like it if there was a PvE-only option, in this game. In such a mode, I'm guessing the battles could load faster and there could be less change of being faced with unbalanced sides.

Yes, capping and holding sectors (especially he most desirable ones) is key to winning battles, although it seems you can also win by wiping out the opposing players & bots. 


 


Edited by aauk, 24 November 2021 - 08:47 AM.


Ato_sato #5 Posted 23 November 2021 - 07:38 PM

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The more you pay WG, the less the botts will bother.

ClassicFrog #6 Posted 23 November 2021 - 07:39 PM

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View Postaauk, on 23 November 2021 - 01:34 PM, said:


The bots do have an unfair advantage in collisions, IMO.

 

Bots flying different plane classes will behave differently, with heavy fighters using ramming quite often. They can also predict the ram outcome quite well, and will happily ram others as long as it results in a kill. Also mutual destruction is good enough for them and they will ram if they can trade plane for plane. This may give an impression that bots have some advantage, because they will commit to ram only if it's favorable, so your sample will be heavily biased.

 

 

 

 

 

But also, I'd really like to know why I find myself on the losing side, much more often than not. It's not due to lack of skill on my part

 

The only persistent factor between battles is the player. If you find yourself on the losing side more often than not, it most certainly is to do with you. There's more to the game than just aerobatics. Tactics play a huge role too. Knowing where to fly, which sectors to focus on and whom to attack and whom to avoid is as important as mastering flying own plane. It comes with time and personal experience. Don't get discouraged.

 

 



houghtonbee #7 Posted 23 November 2021 - 08:37 PM

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The amount of games this evening when the bots on my team suddenly completely lose the ability to cap after building a healthy lead....

ArchangelThunderbird_GB_ #8 Posted 24 November 2021 - 09:07 AM

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View PostClassicFrog, on 23 November 2021 - 07:39 PM, said:

The only persistent factor between battles is the player. If you find yourself on the losing side more often than not, it most certainly is to do with you.

How would you know? Are you privy to all of the coding that has gone into this game?
 

View PostClassicFrog, on 23 November 2021 - 07:39 PM, said:

There's more to the game than just aerobatics. Tactics play a huge role too. Knowing where to fly, which sectors to focus on and whom to attack and whom to avoid is as important as mastering flying own plane. It comes with time and personal experience. 

Oooo, you don't say....  I can assure you, didn't get to Tier X without knowing all that! I'm not claiming to be one of the greatest players out there, but I'm good enough to be in the top-performing two pilots often enough. 
And please learn to quote properly. Don't modify a quote with your own text!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by aauk, 24 November 2021 - 09:31 AM.


prawiejakzywiec666 #9 Posted 24 November 2021 - 10:54 AM

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View Postaauk, on 24 November 2021 - 09:07 AM, said:

How would you know? Are you privy to all of the coding that has gone into this game?
 

Oooo, you don't say....  I can assure you, didn't get to Tier X without knowing all that! I'm not claiming to be one of the greatest players out there, but I'm good enough to be in the top-performing two pilots often enough. 
And please learn to quote properly. Don't modify a quote with your own text!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to my experience ClassicFrog is right.

Players are the decisive factor about the outcome of the match. Nowadays it is more and more up to your teammates that are underperforming than your actual invividual performance. Pilots do not know what and where to do plus the MM allows to match flights on various tiers.

Bots are more or less similar on both sides.


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Noble strimer not strimin


ClassicFrog #10 Posted 24 November 2021 - 08:39 PM

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View Postaauk, on 24 November 2021 - 09:07 AM, said:

How would you know? Are you privy to all of the coding that has gone into this game?

 

You don't need to have access to the code. Do enough rams or get rammed enough times and you will get the good understating of how bots behave, and you will see a pattern to when they commit to ram and when they try to avoid a collision. You can even take an advantage of that, for example if you're in a plane with powerful long range gun, or air to air rockets, because you can trick some bots into flying right head on against you and blow them up before they manage to react.
 

 

 

Oooo, you don't say....  I can assure you, didn't get to Tier X without knowing all that! I'm not claiming to be one of the greatest players out there, but I'm good enough to be in the top-performing two pilots often enough. 

 

Top performing by what measure? Personal points? It's quite misleading. You can farm these on some things that contribute almost nothing to the victory. More personal points means more credits and experience, but as far as winning is concerned, they're just a side effect of the actions you take to win. Same with the personal missions. You can farm Hero of the Sky Badge while being of little help to your team. Also, just because you were better than someone else, doesn't mean you played well. There's plenty of people who struggle to be effective, and you just struggle a little less than them. And finally, you can literally lose your way to tier 10. Yes, literally. You are awarded some experience in every battle, no matter what you did there, so long as you stay in it till the end. Having a tier 10 plane means absolutely nothing.

 

 


And please learn to quote properly. Don't modify a quote with your own text!

 

No :(

 

 

 



GoldKnight #11 Posted 27 November 2021 - 11:55 AM

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-Bots are all the same? No

-Everytime the match is decided by player performance and decisions? No

-Bots change behavior during the course of the game? Yes

 

Now, we can discuss for years about it, but it is what it is. 

Different people knows Mitragyn and me as a flight, mosty in t10, and u know we can be pretty effective up there. Considering this, we saw many games won or lost by bots. 

You can say whatever you want, but when u see a full map turn in a blink of an eye, and maybe there are just 2 humans per side, u know something is happening. 

We had victories with barely any effort, with enemy bots suiciding over bases or our bot insta deleting opponents or capping a base, same with insane enemy bots doing the same and despite capping 15 bases in 2, losing a game versus opponents with barely 3/4 bases each capped. 

 

We saw bots being absolutely dumbasses for entire game, u manage to keep the score up doing everything and right after squall line... The magic begins, ur bots turn in "reds barons", deleting whatever on their sight in a matter of a sec, turning bases faster than a good bomber player. 

 

There is something into the AI code which is not working as intended on my opinion, this causes all the above. I can't believe it is made on purpose, i hope it is not, but it is happening and i'm sure everyone noticed such stupid things

 

Majority of games won or lost are humans fault of right decisions? Yes, not 100%, but majority i would say yes. 

Bots are randomly acting weird, even in multiple players games. It just happens and u get a 4 mins victory or lost, other, if u manage to survive the initial madness, epic game with last point victory lost due to supremacy with 3/4 sectors turned in last 20/30 seconds. 

 

apart the above... then u have such players which are able, with their incompetence, to lose an already won game or turn easy games in a nightmare, but that's why there are the flights, to compensate such behaviors

 


Edited by GoldKnight, 27 November 2021 - 11:59 AM.


FotisK2000 #12 Posted 27 November 2021 - 01:37 PM

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The game that eventually made me stop playing after joining this game in 2013. We were 2 players on my team and 2 players on oponent team. We capped, it was taken back within seconds, the moment we had left. I shot down over 15 planes so did the other player on my team. We ended up with 15K and 13k each.  1st and 2nd place on our team. The third bot on our team had about 4K and the rest of the bots lower all the way dawn to 1K. The opposite team had the two players in 11 and12 place, that is last, with 2k. Their bts above them had from 8K down to 2K. We did everything by the book. Fought like crazy against the bots, because the 2 players were non- existent...AND LOST!!! Buy-buy war gamming...not for me sorry!

Edited by FotisK2000, 27 November 2021 - 01:40 PM.


ArchangelThunderbird_GB_ #13 Posted 27 November 2021 - 01:51 PM

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View PostGoldKnight, on 27 November 2021 - 11:55 AM, said:

-Bots are all the same? No

-Everytime the match is decided by player performance and decisions? No

-Bots change behavior during the course of the game? Yes

 

Now, we can discuss for years about it, but it is what it is. 

Different people knows Mitragyn and me as a flight, mosty in t10, and u know we can be pretty effective up there. Considering this, we saw many games won or lost by bots. 

You can say whatever you want, but when u see a full map turn in a blink of an eye, and maybe there are just 2 humans per side, u know something is happening. 

We had victories with barely any effort, with enemy bots suiciding over bases or our bot insta deleting opponents or capping a base, same with insane enemy bots doing the same and despite capping 15 bases in 2, losing a game versus opponents with barely 3/4 bases each capped. 

 

We saw bots being absolutely dumbasses for entire game, u manage to keep the score up doing everything and right after squall line... The magic begins, ur bots turn in "reds barons", deleting whatever on their sight in a matter of a sec, turning bases faster than a good bomber player. 

 

There is something into the AI code which is not working as intended on my opinion, this causes all the above. I can't believe it is made on purpose, i hope it is not, but it is happening and i'm sure everyone noticed such stupid things

 

Majority of games won or lost are humans fault of right decisions? Yes, not 100%, but majority i would say yes. 

Bots are randomly acting weird, even in multiple players games. It just happens and u get a 4 mins victory or lost, other, if u manage to survive the initial madness, epic game with last point victory lost due to supremacy with 3/4 sectors turned in last 20/30 seconds. 

 

apart the above... then u have such players which are able, with their incompetence, to lose an already won game or turn easy games in a nightmare, but that's why there are the flights, to compensate such behaviors

 

Most of you what said above, reflects my own observations. My own suspicion is that the inconsistent bot-competence is is deliberate, i.e. programmed. (I'm not sure for what purpose... I often wonder if it's to prevent certain players achieving too many consecutive victories, or not suffering too many consecutive defeats, or something like that.) I've also had the impression that the enemy bots were deliberately giving me an unusually easy time, during the first flight of two or three of my premium planes. But of course, that may have been pure coincidence.


Edited by aauk, 27 November 2021 - 01:59 PM.





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